10 story hole in WTC 7 - Part II

It's like driving past a dog with a broken leg on the side of the road. You just can't without wanting to do something. All right, one last chance for education, and then you're done.


First, take a look at the significant digits in the measurement. We have 2.1 and 2.3. Two significant digits. This means a minimum error of +/- 0.1 is implicit in the measurement itself. So it is possible that both collapses were identical, registering 2.2, but we measured 2.3 and 2.1 due to random error. This would be a valid explanation no matter what we were measuring, be it shaking intensity, length, distance, mass, or the number of people remaining in the Truth Movement.

Next, read this. It tells you how Richter magnitude is actually calculated. Marvel at how inexact the process is.

Then click below:
Did you see where it said the following?
The uncertainty in an estimate of the magnitude is about plus or minus 0.3 units, and seismologists often revise magnitude estimates as they obtain and analyze additional data.
Or, later:
This accounts for the usual spread of around 0.2 magnitude units that you see reported from different seismological labs right after an earthquake. Each lab is averaging in different stations that they have access to. It may be several days before different organizations will come to a consensus on what was the best magnitude estimate.
If you didn't, go back and read it again.

And to clarify, that's plus or minus 0.2, or up to 0.4 between two events, at only one standard deviation.

Do you also understand that chaotic events, like collapses coupling to the ground, don't always behave exactly the same way each time? I explained this to you before.

Next, what do you make of the fact that the impacts were also 0.2 MR apart (WTC 1 0.9, WTC 2 0.7)? And that the lesser of the two was WTC 2 in both impact and collapse? Vaguely possible systematic error, maybe terrain effect, that's what you should make of it, though I imagine you have some fantastic excuse for that as well.

And finally, the researchers at Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, who computed those estimates, don't see anything suspicious about them at all. What does that tell you? Are you a million times smarter than they are, despite being off by a factor of five in your initial boasts just two days ago?

Learning is not easy. Otherwise, everyone would do it. Give it a try.
 
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"The margin of error in Richter estimates is 0.2"

Source? 2.1 vs. 2.3 inside the same bathtub. Same distance.

Mackey did not want to answer because he already knew what was coming. The magnitude of the north tower compared to the south tower cannot be explained without an outside energy source. Something made the north tower a much larger production.

I see it has been explained to you much better than I was about to do.

But even if your parroting of the energy yield calculations were reasonable, you would also be admitting that WTC1 had been blown up while WTC2 had not. Or that hugely different amounts of explosives were used in the two cases. You would then need to explain why and how, because you sure as hell would be asked.

At least try to get your delusions organised and internally consistent.
 
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I see nothing abnormally strange in either reading, mackey. We witness a far greater display of energy outside tower 2. Less energy inside, less transferred to ground.

We also witness a far greater display in the demise of WTC1 vs. WTC2. The difference in readings for their obliterations is not surprising either.

Of course Al Qaeda, or whomever, would want a bigger display for the second 'collapse' than for the first. More awe for more viewers. Likewise the plane impacts.

The entire WTC 'act' logically follows the formula for a great show. The timing was near perfect.
 
I see nothing abnormally strange in either reading, mackey. We witness a far greater display of energy outside tower 2. Less energy inside, less transferred to ground.

We also witness a far greater display in the demise of WTC1 vs. WTC2. The difference in readings for their obliterations is not surprising either.

Of course Al Qaeda, or whomever, would want a bigger display for the second 'collapse' than for the first. More awe for more viewers. Likewise the plane impacts.

The entire WTC 'act' logically follows the formula for a great show. The timing was near perfect.


Display?

What exactly, other than the seismic reports which very few people would have immediate access to, would this display entail?
 
Having trouble, hokulele?

edited to add: scratch that last statement - an ill attempt at humor.

To answer your question, hokulele; the display on your television set.
 
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Your answer is lame.

Try again.

Please detail mathematically and scientifically exactly what you found wrong with the response? Your reply only demonstrates that you are beaten and cannot accept defeat. You have nothing to back up your claims. Mackey provided a rational scientific explanation to the anomaly. You have done nothing. Your answers are the only lame ones, because they lack any substance.

You FAIL to understand the concept of significant numbers in measurement and this, coupled with your significantly high level of cognitive dissonance, has led you to your poor assumptions.

Further failure to consider rational scientific explanations to the concept you FAIL to understand, only serves to show how ignorant and biased you are.

You have FAILED in your arguments and you have FAILED to provide any rational, logical substance to the debate.

You are your own worst enemy.
 
It seems to me that an inability to understand the concept of measurement error is endemic in the truth movement. It's possibly even the case that it's the foundation of the truth movement; an irreducible delusion that there is no such thing as error, that all measurements must be correct to the last digit stated and all witness statements must be correct in every detail, that a model of collapse must predict the final resting place of every fragment of dust to be plausible. It's the fundamental error of the conspiracy theorist: everything is significant, everything must be accounted for in detail, and if it is not, a more complex theory must be substituted. I don't think KreeL is necessarily even capable of learning to understand measurement errors.

Dave
 
Look around you, buka. Using your brain isn't hard to do. Not everything that you can learn centers around mathematics. I made a valid point using nothing more than something even you can understand. The human language. Just because mackey is a physicist doesn't mean he can't understand what I am saying. Same for you.

If you are experiencing difficulty is understanding my point, then go back and reread it. It's not long, nor hard (bet you've heard that before).
 
Dave and 'measurement error'.

Twin towers sharing the same bathtub. Measure that.
 
I see nothing abnormally strange in either reading, mackey.

Nobody has suggested either reading was "strange" so why do you say this?

Try this little thought experiment KreeL ...
You are tasked to measure the time it takes an athlete to run 100m in 3 different ways. Firstly with Olympic-quality starting procedures, photo-finish equipment etc. Then with just your vision and an old-fashioned stopwatch. Then by just counting to yourself.

What degree of accuracy would it be reasonable to claim in each case and what would be the limiting factors in the accuracy of these timings?
For example : suppose the stopwatch had a big dial and fast-moving hand. When you stop it it reads halfway between 10.83 and 10.84 seconds. Can you claim the time was 10.835?
 
Fallacious analogy.

C'mon, man, you can do better than that.

You once claimed to have learned some physics about "mass not falling through itself" while in 5th grade. Feel free to save that little 'test' of mine above in a document somewhere. It might help you when you reach 6th grade.
 
Same equipment, same location.

Take a measuring cup. Measure 1/2 cup of sugar and dump it in a bowl.

Take the same measuring cup. Measure another 1/2 cup of sugar and dump it in the same bowl.

You are human, so we could expect some margin of error, but if you measure the sugar in the bowl and it is now 1 1/2 cups of sugar - how would you explain that?

Oh wait...I know how:

"You are tasked to measure the time it takes an athlete to run 100m in 3 different ways. Firstly with Olympic-quality starting procedures, photo-finish equipment etc. Then with just your vision and an old-fashioned stopwatch. Then by just counting to yourself."
 
You are claiming that the margin of error on the richter measurements is much smaller than it actually is? And you know this because the buildings were close together? And you have deduced that this means one building weighed 10 times more than the other building? Or maybe just twice as heavy?
What was your explanation for your imaginary anomaly again? Just asking questions?
 
Dave and 'measurement error'.

Twin towers sharing the same bathtub. Measure that.

Been done, experimentally. Result is that the collapse of one tower creates a seismic wave with Richter magnitude 2.2 ± 0.1. Since the expected measurement error is at least ± 0.2, the two results are identical. This is first year undergraduate material, if that.

Dave
 
You've tossed about 'margin of error' and 'measurement error'.

I am not sure you know what you mean.

My understanding of Richter scale margin of error is maybe different from yours. Can you clarify what you know of this to everyone?
 
...

You are human, so we could expect some margin of error, but if you measure the sugar in the bowl and it is now 1 1/2 cups of sugar - how would you explain that?

Answer my question and I'll be very happy to answer yours.
 
You've tossed about 'margin of error' and 'measurement error'.

I am not sure you know what you mean.

My understanding of Richter scale margin of error is maybe different from yours. Can you clarify what you know of this to everyone?

Your understanding of the Richter scale and the concept of margin of error is lacking, not just different. Read the link Mackey provided for you!

Each earthquake has a unique amount of energy, but magnitude values given by different seismological observatories for an event may vary. Depending on the size, nature, and location of an earthquake, seismologists use several different methods to estimate magnitude. The uncertainty in an estimate of the magnitude is about plus or minus 0.3 units, and seismologists often revise magnitude estimates as they obtain and analyze additional data.

Measurements of 2.1 and 2.3 are the same when the margin of error is +/- 0.3. This is a basic concept. You are committing a mathematical error when you presume that the difference means something. This is not lame or some sort of dodge, this is a concept that's been known for centuries now, and is something presented in basic science courses for freshmen. Continuing to deny it demonstrates nothing more than your lack of understanding.

Before continuing to defend your calculation of energy released, explain why the University of Nevada at Reno instructor who put up that site for freshmen (it's a 100 level course, therefore an introductory one) stated explicitly that "uncertainty in an estimate of the magnitude is about plus or minus 0.3 units". Then explain why the magnitude measurement for the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake that devastated Indonesia was revised no less than 3 times, and is stated as having a magnitude "of between 9.1 and 9.3". When you're done with that, then explain why you continue to say that there is a difference between the two towers measurements when the margin of error is greater than the measurements precision.

Only then will you be able to demonstrate that you know enough to justify your thesis that one tower released more energy than the other one. Only then. Until then, all you demonstrate is a lack of understanding of basic uncertainty management in practical science.
 
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