10 story hole in WTC 7 - Part II

[KreeL]

Oh, and in case you're wondering:

The Richter scale is defined using the logarithm base 10 as:
2 E
R = ——— log ———
3 Eo

Where, Eo = 104.8 Joules is the energy released by a small reference earthquake. The energy, E can be obtained directly from the Gutenberg-Richter magnitude-energy relation, here expressed in units of Joules:
log E = 1.5×R + 4.8 or equivalently:

E = 101.5×R + 4.8

 

[KreeL]

^ back me up, mackey, you sly dog ^

 

[KreeL]

Honestly guys, you can't have it both ways. If the north tower simply 'fell', then a chunk large and heavy enough to do the damage you say occurred on WTC7 is farfetched. The old saying, 'the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree' applies.

But hey, cheer up! I believe a monster piece indeed smacked right through the WTC7 because it was blown there by the force of (let me calculate once again....) 0.0425019 kiloton tnt.

 

[Hokulele]

I am not Mackey, but yes, you did Google correctly.

http://home.att.net/~srschmitt/script_earthquake.html

 

[beachnut]

First collapse: Richter magnitude: 2.1 Energy released: 8.912509e+7
Joules: 89125090

Second collapse (north tower): Richter magnitude: 2.3 Energy released: 1.778279e+8 Joules: 177827900

Let's see if I am looking at this the same way our resident physicist is:

89125090 (south tower)

177827900 (north tower)

Does that add up to nearly double the magnitude?

Whew, the north tower wasn't 10 times heavier than the south tower afterall. Only twice as heavy -- silly me.

Wow,
More than 576,000,000,000 joules were released in both towers falling.

This was due to gravity alone.

So you were trying to push some failed delusion of 911Truth based on zero evidence just talk. You just proved it.

What failed point were you trying to make?

 

[KreeL]

Gravity? Why the north tower double the magnitude? Grouping them both together now are we?

Hmmmmm.....Beachnut again....no wonder.

 

[GlennB]

My guess, based on the math-avoidance going on in the "Steel" thread, is that someone read a definition of the Richter scale as being logarithmic, and is confusing the order of magnitude change between the whole number values with the fractional values. Hence, the "10 times the mass" comment.

*Shrug*

I thought when he said "What if I were to tell you that the north tower was 10 times heavier than the south tower?" it was in an ironic sense and that Mackey hadn't noticed the context. Now I have no idea whatsoever what KreeL is talking about.

p.s. KreeL - you never did answer that question about your claim that "mass cannot fall through itself" which you seem to have learned in 5th grade science (age 11 or so?).
What is this supposed to mean?

 

[GlennB]

But hey, cheer up! I believe a monster piece indeed smacked right through the WTC7 because it was blown there by the force of (let me calculate once again....) 0.0425019 kiloton tnt.

Ah, the source of KreeL's "calculations". Straight from

http://www.v911t.org/FreefallForceImpact.php

KreeL - here's a tip. When you claim to have done a calculation but have - in fact - taken it from elsewhere, just change the figures very slightly. Won't be so easy to Google your source then.

 

[beachnut]

Gravity? Why the north tower double the magnitude? Grouping them both together now are we?

Hmmmmm.....Beachnut again....no wonder.

The page you lifted your numbers from has a major problem. You are funny using work that is flawed to support your ideas on 911 based on 911Truth delusions.

The web page is junk. You can’t base the energy on the peak reading, you have to take the entire event. The two events were different and your lay person approach is hilarious when you look at where you got it.

There was over 130 tons of TNT energy in the collapse of one tower making it easy to expel objects into WTC7. But 42 tons of TNT? I think you messed up. Show your work. Or cite the source.

 

[KreeL]

I have no problems with the calculations derived from http://home.att.net/~srschmitt/script_earthquake.html

Do them yourselves if you wish.

Glenn B. - mass cannot fall through itself. There is no explanation simpler than that.

Beachnut - I am finding it increasingly hard to believe anything you post.

I have never been to v911t.org in my life, but I'll check it out - thanks.

My apologies, beachnut, you are correct in pointing out my tonnage miscalculation. However, Gordon Ross has calculated the energies necessary for a progressive collapse of the twin towers and found a massive energy deficit. If you would like me to try to find his work - just ask.

 

[beachnut]

I have no problems with the calculations derived from http://home.att.net/~srschmitt/script_earthquake.html

Do them yourselves if you wish.

Glenn B. - mass cannot fall through itself. There is no explanation simpler than that.

Beachnut - I am finding it increasingly hard to believe anything you post.

I have never been to v911t.org in my life, but I'll check it out - thanks.

My apologies, beachnut, you are correct in pointing out my tonnage miscalculation. However, Gordon Ross has calculated the energies necessary for a progressive collapse of the twin towers and found a massive energy deficit. If you would like me to try to find his work - just ask.

Ross is only 10 or 20 percent short on the energy required for global collapse and he made an error. Oops.

Too bad you can't find Ross's error so you could stop believing delusions from failed engineers who have placed their biases ahead of their engineering skills.

Ross says the WTC can’t fall, it did; proven wrong on 911. You can look it up or you could see his error if you understood physics, and engineering. Ross’s error is easy to see. Do you need help. ‘

BTW, using Ross’s work is a smoking gun you don’t understand 911. Like a trap for finding people who lack knowledge on 911. (simile)

You have no idea what simile means on your explosive sound like stuff. They said the it sounded like an explosion, not that it was an explosive. This was debunked years ago, neat you are on a retro posting spree and apologizing for terrorist by blaming other people for the terrorist acts and you do so with faulty physics, and failed ideas of 911Truth without checking their failed work.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/local_links.php?catid=18

 

[GlennB]

Glenn B. - mass cannot fall through itself. There is no explanation simpler than that.

Except it's a meaningless statement. Let me illustrate -

Grab an hourglass, or put some dry sand in a funnel.

The "mass" of sand begins falling through the hole. Once a conical hole has developed the sand at the top may slide down through it. The last grains to fall maybe the ones that were at the bottom just wide of the hole, because they were being pinned down by the bulk of the remaining sand. The "mass" has, to some extent, "fallen through itself" in that some of the sand at the top fell earlier than sand that started lower.

Air circulation caused by a temperature gradient would be another example, where cool air falls "through" warmer air.

Water flowing faster down the centre of a pipe than at the wall of the pipe (which I recall is the case) would be yet another.

There are hundreds of such examples around us in daily life.

So - please explain your statement. If it was explained to you satisfactorily in 5th grade I'm sure we'll manage to comprehend.

 

[KreeL]

Just to let you know. Debunking is not a group of guys sitting in a forum saying things like 'how does a fireman know what an explosion sounds like?' or 'what the heck does a female ambulance driver know about explosions?' ...or 'bodies hitting concrete sound like explosions'....or any crappy stuff like that. THAT is NOT debunking squat -- just so you know.

 

[KreeL]

The sand falling in an hourglass is not falling through itself.

Stack 10 grains of sand on top of one another, and drop one grain through the rest.

See the difference? I think you don't....and that's sad.

 

[beachnut]

911Truth physics capabilities are best summed up by a physicist.

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. Albert Einstein

No concept of mass, no real understanding of gravity, fire, structures, or reality = 911Truth

95 pecent of the WTC is air; lol

The topic was:

Who believes that there was a '10 story hole' and who does not?

I think there was damage to WTC7, you can see it.

 

[KreeL]

I saw a pic of the damage suffered by the bank across the street from the WTC. Talk about a gash....

I was wondering if it imploded? Anyone know?

 

[GlennB]

The sand falling in an hourglass is not falling through itself.

Stack 10 grains of sand on top of one another, and drop one grain through the rest.

See the difference? I think you don't....and that's sad.

Of course I see the difference. But it raises the question of what you mean by mass?
Consider a flask of hot water that is cooling from the top. The colder water will sink. You can watch this happening by adding a little ink. The water is passing "through itself".
Consider a gust of wind that catches one sail but not a nearby sail. The air is passing "through itself".
Put some thermite on a raised steel plate and set fire to it. The metal that was at the top of the plate is now to be found in a pile of slag under the remains of the plate. The steel has passed "through itself".

I repeat again - please explain what you meant by this claim that "mass cannot pass through itself". Are you thinking of the atomic level or something?

 

[332nd]

I saw a pic of the damage suffered by the bank across the street from the WTC. Talk about a gash....

I was wondering if it imploded? Anyone know?

Nope. Do you have a point you were trying to make about different buildings, with different, damage?

 

[GStan]

I want to know who is responsible for 10 story hole in wtc 7 part deux anyway...

Please let the record show that I did not restart this abomination. Mine is just the first post that was moved from part 1 to part 2, thus, my name is in the thread starter position.

 

[twinstead]

Please let the record show that I did not restart this abomination. Mine is just the first post that was moved from part 1 to part 2, thus, my name is in the thread starter position.

Ah HA! Likely story!