$1,000,000 Challenge

[Navigator]

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I, James Randi, through the JREF, will pay US$1,000,000 to any person who can demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability under satisfactory observing conditions. Such demonstration must take place under these rules and limitations.
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Psychic
1 : of or relating to the psyche
2 : lying outside the sphere of physical science or knowledge : immaterial, moral, or spiritual in origin or force
3 : sensitive to nonphysical or supernatural forces and influences : marked by extraordinary or mysterious sensitivity, perception, or understanding
Supernatural:
of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)
Paranormal:
not scientifically explainable


Thus, the money is safe.

It is almost like James is holding a mirror up to example the kind of tricky things charlatans do.
According to the definition of the three words given, there is no way to demonstrate – such are the imposed appropriates in this given challenge.

 

[CFLarsen]

No, the money is far from safe.

All claimants have to do is demonstrate their ability.

It is easy to demonstrate that dowsing works. Just find the pipe with the water with your dowsing rod.

It is easy to demonstrate that telekinesis works. Just move the object with your mind.

It is easy to demonstrate that mediumship works. Just talk to a dead person.

It is easy to demonstrate that you can knock people down with your mind. Just knock them down with your mind.

And so on.

The "trick" is, of course, that it has to be done under controlled circumstances. That means: No cheating, no trickery. And self-delusion is also ruled out.

And that is why the JREF still has the million bucks...

 

[crimresearch]

"...Thus, the money is safe.
It is almost like James is holding a mirror up to example the kind of tricky things charlatans do."

I always figured that was why it is called an 'Educational' foundation instead of a 'Paranormal Research' foundation.

Randi is a professional debunker, and his awards have been for exposing frauds, not for proving that the paranormal is valid.
And the money is acting like a lighthouse ( or a mirror)in that regard.

Paul

 

[Navigator]

No, the money is far from safe.

All claimants have to do is demonstrate their ability.

It is easy to demonstrate that dowsing works. Just find the pipe with the water with your dowsing rod.

It is easy to demonstrate that telekinesis works. Just move the object with your mind.

It is easy to demonstrate that mediumship works. Just talk to a dead person.

It is easy to demonstrate that you can knock people down with your mind. Just knock them down with your mind.

And so on.

The "trick" is, of course, that it has to be done under controlled circumstances. That means: No cheating, no trickery. And self-delusion is also ruled out.

And that is why the JREF still has the million bucks...

If it were easy then why haven't you already claimed the prize?

'It is easy" is a sweeping statement of inaccuracy - unless you are saying that you can indeed do these things...in a demonstrable way.
The 'trick' is that it is a trick - the money is safe - it is a joke - not too cruel - but funny...the sad bit is that James could invest the money into something more productive than having it sitting around waiting to be claimed....especially since he asks for donations from people.

 

[apoger]

It's not a "trick" at all. The challenge has nothing to do with semantic games relating to the definitions of supernatural and paranormal. However we do get an almost constant stream of postings just like yours, showing a complete misunderstanding of the situation.

All a claimant has to do is present a claim that the JREF considers paranormal, and then undergo the testing to show that the claim holds water. The JREF and the claimant work out the test in advance and to the satisfaction of both parties.

Perhaps you might try reading the terms of the challenge rather than cobbling togther a word game to try to invalidate it. Plus if you are intent on word games, at least be original.

 

[Navigator]

It's not a "trick" at all. The challenge has nothing to do with semantic games relating to the definitions of supernatural and paranormal. However we do get an almost constant stream of postings just like yours, showing a complete misunderstanding of the situation.

All a claimant has to do is present a claim that the JREF considers paranormal, and then undergo the testing to show that the claim holds water. The JREF and the claimant work out the test in advance and to the satisfaction of both parties.

Perhaps you might try reading the terms of the challenge rather than cobbling togther a word game to try to invalidate it. Plus if you are intent on word games, at least be original.

If I can be original and intelligent at the same moment, then it's worth a shot.

It is interesting that I am not the only one who has seen this obvious thing James is doing.

All a claimant has to do is present a claim that the JREF considers paranormal, and then undergo the testing to show that the claim holds water.


Paranormal:
not scientifically explainable

Okay - I assume James is somewhat the scientist.
Therefore, HOW can the 'JREF' consider anything being 'paranormal' when the very deffinition of paranomal is not scientifically explainable.

I have a thread in the science section which has to do with connection of individual to the deeper levels of their intelligence potential.
It is easy for science to understand the principle - or belief that human beings do not use all of the itelligence they are capable of using, than it is for science to believe that ghosts, spirits, demons, angels, gods, collective consciousness, subconsciousness, extraterestrials, or anything else subjugatedr to the realms of subjective fantasy.

Therefore it is easier to explain the deeper intelligence humans possess, as being a part of the individual that is not ordinarily utelised or acknowledged.
And it is also easier for science to see how easy it is for humans to mistake this intelligence as being somehow something outside themselves, or their ability to control.

Thus, I reiterate the truth that James' $$$ are safe in the bank, and accept that there will NEVER be anyone who can step up to the podium and claim the prize, while the imposed appropriates remain as they do.

This charade must be ceased for the sake of scientific integrity and for the sake of moving forwards into developing ways in which individuals can utelise the full potential of personal intelligence - without the mumbo jumbo.

The $$$ which are in bond, are wasted - and it is unecessary for the JREF to ask for donations, if indeed there is a stash of $$ already sitting around.

Maybe 'science' really really really WANTS there to be spirits and ghosts and gods and what have you - but the cold hard fact remains - There is only intelligence.

Which is fine - for what else do we need?

"Tricks"?

 

[CFLarsen]

If it were easy then why haven't you already claimed the prize?

1) I don't claim to be able to do anything paranormal.
2) I could never match Randi's knowledge of trickery. He'd see through me right away.

'It is easy" is a sweeping statement of inaccuracy - unless you are saying that you can indeed do these things...in a demonstrable way.

Not at all. But I can look at what those who are actually saying that they can do these things, and see that - were they able to - they would pass with flying colors.

The 'trick' is that it is a trick - the money is safe - it is a joke - not too cruel - but funny...the sad bit is that James could invest the money into something more productive than having it sitting around waiting to be claimed....especially since he asks for donations from people.

Oops, you are confusing two things. There is the Prize - one million bucks - that everyone can win, provided they prove it. And then there is the Foundation, which educates people all over the world. Randi is asking for donations so that the Foundation can continue its work.

 

[Navigator]

1) I don't claim to be able to do anything paranormal.
2) I could never match Randi's knowledge of trickery. He'd see through me right away.



Not at all. But I can look at what those who are actually saying that they can do these things, and see that - were they able to - they would pass with flying colors.



Oops, you are confusing two things. There is the Prize - one million bucks - that everyone can win, provided they prove it. And then there is the Foundation, which educates people all over the world. Randi is asking for donations so that the Foundation can continue its work.

Okay - so the money is safe and the donations are for education.

"Were they able to" is not the same as "It is easy"

Do you belief that James thinks these ones are able to do what science knows is impossible?
Or are you saying that science really does'nt know for sure at all?

 

[CFLarsen]

Okay - so the money is safe and the donations are for education.

No, the money is not "safe". They can be won, fair and square.

The donations are for educations, yes.

"Were they able to" is not the same as "It is easy"

Oh, but it is easy! Quite a lot of those claiming to have a paranormal ability even make money from it. They wouldn't be able to stay in business, unless their customers were convinced that these people could actually do it.

It is easy for them, right up until the moment where they have to do it under controlled circumstances. Now, what does that tell you?

Do you belief that James thinks these ones are able to do what science knows is impossible? Or are you saying that science really does'nt know for sure at all?

I don't know what Randi thinks, but I do know that science does not "know" that anything is impossible. What science does is tell us how the universe works, and, as of now, we haven't seen one single example of a paranormal phenomenon.

Mind you, passing the JREF Challenge is far, far easier to do than show the ability under scientific scrutiny.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

[color=`gagging grape]

... the sad bit is that James could invest the money into something more productive than having it sitting around waiting to be claimed....especially since he asks for donations from people.
[/color]

And who would decide what is more productive.. You?

I believe the million does draw interest, which further funds the JREF...


You are free to start a non-profit organization of your own; which you could hold up as ' So much more worthwhile.... ' than the JREF ...
Let us know when you have it going...

 

[jackmott]

if you can successfully dowse, you win.

if you can distringuish between a homepathic liquid and water you win.

if you can read a mind you win

if you can read while blindfolded you win.

When you take the test, you agree on the winning condition, many people have agreed on conditions like the ones above, and they fail to succeed.

Psychic
1 : of or relating to the psyche
2 : lying outside the sphere of physical science or knowledge : immaterial, moral, or spiritual in origin or force
3 : sensitive to nonphysical or supernatural forces and influences : marked by extraordinary or mysterious sensitivity, perception, or understanding
Supernatural:
of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)
Paranormal:
not scientifically explainable


Thus, the money is safe.

It is almost like James is holding a mirror up to example the kind of tricky things charlatans do.
According to the definition of the three words given, there is no way to demonstrate – such are the imposed appropriates in this given challenge.

 

[jackmott]

Okay - so the money is safe and the donations are for education.

"Were they able to" is not the same as "It is easy"

Do you belief that James thinks these ones are able to do what science knows is impossible?
Or are you saying that science really does'nt know for sure at all?

James makes it pretty clear that his opinion is there is nobody capable of doing anything paranormal. So he feels the money is safe, as you do.

Im sure the money is invested, much like a university endowment. Its not just under randis bed.

and the money serves a rather useful puporse, it shuts up woowoos when they claim to have paranormal abilities.

you point them to the prize and say, go win, or shut up.

 

[alfaniner]

Navigator, please use the standard black font. Those of us who are color blind find your posts almost impossible to read when they are on a gray background.

jackmott -- the standard is to put your comments after quotes rather than before (as you did immediately above). Just makes threads easier to read.

Thanks to both of you.

 

[apoger]

Navigator, repeating the word games doesn't make it any more compelling.


Perhaps I can help explain the situation with an analogy:
[please excuse the cut n' paste from another thread on the same topic]


Claimant: I have a bucket full of water.
JREF: We can not conceive of any way that this bucket can contain water. We think this bucket is waterless.
Claimant: I can show evidence of the claim that you will accept.
JREF: Please do.
*The claimant proceeds to pour the bucket of water over the JREF's head*
JREF: You have demonstrated enough evidence to convince us that we were mistaken. Due to the new evidence presented we change our stance from declaring the bucket waterless, and we now conceed that the bucket was indeed full of water.

This is analagous with:

Claimant: I have a special power.
JREF: We can not conceive of any way that this power can exist in nature. We think this power is supernatural.
Claimant: I can show evidence of the claim that you will accept.
JREF: Please do.
*The claimant proceeds to demonstrate the claim to the satisfaction of the JREF*
JREF: You have demonstrated enough evidence to convince us that we were mistaken. Due to the new evidence presented we change our stance from declaring the power supernatural, and we now concede that the power is indeed part of nature.
[Oh yes, and we owe you a million dollars. Congratulations on taking the first step in possibly helping all of mankind redefine reality, and potentially ushering in a new age of discovery.]



I hope this offers some clarity. The claimant makes a claim. The JREF says that it considers the claim paranormal. This is the JREF's opinion. It is not an absolute definition! The JREF offers the million if the claimant can produce evidence under proper testing conditions. Both parties agree on the claim and the testing procedure. It's that simple. Argument over the definition of "paranormal" never enters the equation.

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

It is easy to demonstrate that mediumship works. Just talk to a dead person.

I'm with you on the other things you mentioned, and having read Randi's Flim-Flam I have a pretty good idea how to test dowsers and such.

But how do you test a medium?

I don't mean exposing phoney-baloney ectoplasm mongers, I mean how can one confirm whether someone is talking to the dead?

It doesn't seem possible.

Has Randi ever tested such a claim? If so, how?

 

[LTC8K6]

Yes Navigator, there are no psychic, supernatural, or paranormal powers, therefore the $1,000,000 will remain safely tucked away gaining interest.

You sure picked the long way to tell us that.

If it's not so easy to do any of these things, why do so many folks say that they can?

 

[DrMatt]

If it were easy then why haven't you already claimed the prize?

'It is easy" is a sweeping statement of inaccuracy - unless you are saying that you can indeed do these things...in a demonstrable way.
The 'trick' is that it is a trick - the money is safe - it is a joke - not too cruel - but funny...the sad bit is that James could invest the money into something more productive than having it sitting around waiting to be claimed....especially since he asks for donations from people.

If I might make two observations:

1) The money is invested in negotiable bonds. JREF cannot touch the principle, except to pay the prize. But it doesn't mean it's just sitting there. It's invested. It earns interest.

2) Claimants routinely act like, and many of them really believe, that doing supernatural things is easy. What makes the challenge not a semantic game is that it only asks claimants to actually do what they claim, not to prove that it is beyond the potential for some future scientist to explain. Theories of how a claimed ability is achieved are quite beside the point.

 

[Navigator]

Yes Navigator, there are no psychic, supernatural, or paranormal powers, therefore the $1,000,000 will remain safely tucked away gaining interest.

You sure picked the long way to tell us that.

If it's not so easy to do any of these things, why do so many folks say that they can?

Greetings everyone

"Why do SO MANY folks tell people they can?"

...Talk to the dead
...Dowse for hidden articles
...Shift matter with their focused thoughts
...tell the future acturately
...etc etc...

THAT is the question!

Why do people make such claims?

Well, it's a way of making money, but so is plumbing and carperntry and engineering.

In the case of this being the motivation, there are plenty of people who will pay others to read the Tarot (for past present and future information) which confirms their own subjective points of view. They are happy to pay.
Thus there is a need.
You need shelter, you pay someone to provide it.
So both parties are motivated by NEED.

In one way, if such needs are met, then for these folk, science has not been able to fill this need.

So science might like to look at WHY there is this need.

But from what I gather, this is not James' motivation for offering such a handsom prize - and I agree that if someone could actually come up and satisfy the JREF organisation, it would indeed change dramatically, the way Humanity sees the world, maybe even for the better.
James' motivation seems centred upon exposing fruadulant shysters - and he has his work cut out in that department - from taking advantage of the gullible.

However, I would suggest that those 'gullible' do not, consider themselves at all to be taken advantage of by the unscrupulous...something fulfils the need, and that is all that matters.

Maybe that is what makes the world interesting?

Maybe it is like Children and Santa Clause. Imagine James taking this a step further and embracing all the myths of mankind - exposing to the children of the world that their is no Scientific evidence for Santa, so Santa is another fraud and those institutions which thrive off the beliefs of children, and even go so far as to instill those beliefs in children at the very beginning of their conscious development, are nothing more or less than liars!
Gosh!

James lives in a world where belief in myth and legend is the predominant motivation for folk even bothering to get up in the morning.
No amount of prize money will change that fact.

Scientific investigation MIGHT...but I suspect that those who use devices of divination see some kinda evidence which supports their belief systems, and any science which seeks to undermine those beliefs, had better have something in which to replace Santa with, or Science will lose the battle.

Facts don't seem to be enough. It is like telling the Child "There is no Santa - you have been lied to.
Bubble Pops '*'

But what is left over? A bitter thing. So the truth creates a bitter thing, where the lies did not.

Then what apart from fact, has science contributed? And how has this fact helped?

Each day that goes by where the money is not claimed, is another day in which Science strengthens it's hold upon reality.
No money in all the world will change the fact that myth and fantasy are part of what makes humans humans, and for many of these, I suspect, their personal beliefs are far too helpful a thing for them to sacrifice on the alter of scientific truth.

 

[DangerousBeliefs]

Then what apart from fact, has science contributed? And how has this fact helped?

Understatement of the millennium.

What has science given humanity? Virtually everything.

By the way, I feel that JREF needs to be here because these fakers and quacks KILL people and have done so for 1000s of years.

 

[crimresearch]

"However, I would suggest that those 'gullible' do not, consider themselves at all to be taken advantage of by the unscrupulous..."

True, there was an interesting story about a Harvard professor who was caught swindling money for a non-existent research facility. When arrested, it was discovered that he himself had been defrauded of part of the money, as a victim of a transparent Nigerian scam...he adamantly insisted to authorities that he had not been duped.

"...something fulfils the need, and that is all that matters."

I suspect that there are indeed people who are compelled to be manipulated, as there are those who 'need' abuse, or 'need' self destructive behavior.

I do not think that everyone who is deceived falls into that category, and efforts to debunk the deceivers, while not a cure all, do serve (IMHO) a valuable purpose.

After all, we try to dissuade people from their various other 'needs', from alcohol, to drugs, to sexual compulsive behavior, even though there are many who are happy to take advantage of that kind of need.
Should we do any less for those who are taken advantage of by charlatans, even if they have developed a symbiotic relationship?

Paul