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[Merged] whirlpower /another whirlpool thread

h.g.Whiz

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h.g.Whiz
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The Pearl of Wisdom; Whirlpower Theory by David Dennard

The Pearl of Wisdom

by

David G. Dennard


Chapter One

The Origin of Energy


Man once thought the Earth was flat and at the center of the solar system. This
was a natural conclusion to come to for that is the way it appears. It still
does. But we learned something in the recent expression of man's knowledge,
recent meaning hundreds even thousands of years, a blink of the eye in known
time of man's existence; that everything is not always the way it seems. In fact
it is almost always not the way it seems.


http://www.eskimo.com/billb/weird/wvort.html



http://www.spiritweb.org/cgi/ml.cgi?list=science-l&passwd=devotion






Chapter Two

Whirlpower Theory
by David G. Dennard

The whirlpool, something most never think about, fascinated Aristotle. He even
threw himself in one because he could not figure it out. And it is something
used all the time as a symbol to catch people's attention. The spiral symbol
carries a powerful symbolic message of appeal known well to advertisers and the
media. During the past year I have noted a constant stream of whirlpool and
vortex imagery used in many arenas. But where is the whirlpool?



http://www.ledomedesprit.com/domeworld/void/wp/essence.html

Do not post copyrighted material in its entirety.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson
 
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Well. Unlike our other current poster who has the "key", you at least know that gravity is a force.

The rest is just wrong.

:shocked:
 
h.g.Whiz said:
The Pearl of Wisdom; Whirlpower Theory by David Dennard

The Pearl of Wisdom

by

David G. Dennard


Chapter One

The Origin of Energy


Man once thought the Earth was flat and at the center of the solar system.
Click to expand...

I stopped reading at this point.
 
Wow! That's one amazingly big pile of bullcrap!


BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!
 
h.g.Whiz said:
All it takes to find out is to build the whirlpool. It will take thousands to
find out, but not millions.
Click to expand...

Reading through that was like watching a really bad movie. You know how it is going to end, so everything is just leading up the inevitable...

"I have an invention/idea that will revolutionize the world and change humanity for all of eternity... all I need is some money."

Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, but you are not the first person to come in through the saloon doors and claim you have the next "big idea." Remember where you are. This might be the largest population of skeptics on the net, and many have a great deal of practice refuting claims such as yours.

Let me save you the eventual trouble and get down to brass tacks:

Show us some proof

Until you do that, I guarantee this will not go the way you hope and wish.

BTW, welcome to the JREF.

Cheers!
 
"This might be the largest population of skeptics on the net, and many have a great deal of practice refuting claims such as yours."

That is precisely the reason I posted it here!
 
h.g.Whiz said:
"This might be the largest population of skeptics on the net, and many have a great deal of practice refuting claims such as yours."

That is precisely the reason I posted it here!
Click to expand...

See the second post for why this is silly. Whirlpools use potential energy; they don't create energy.
 
h.g.Whiz said:
"This might be the largest population of skeptics on the net, and many have a great deal of practice refuting claims such as yours."

That is precisely the reason I posted it here!
Click to expand...

Excellent!

I certainly hope your game for some questions...

The first is in relation to what Mark (above) just referred to.

What evidence (studies/experiments) exists that illustrates that this "whirl" generates energy as opposed to the accepted idea that it requires energy to be generated in the first place?
 
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mrshadyvale said:
Excellent!

I certainly hope your game for some questions...

The first is in relation to what Mark (above) just referred to.

What evidence (studies/experiments) exists that illustrates that this "whirl" generates energy as opposed to the accepted idea that it requires energy to be generated in the first place?
Click to expand...

I will answer your questions once you conduct a simple experiment first. By doing so we can eliminate unnecessary arguing.
 
h.g.Whiz said:
I will answer your questions once you conduct a simple experiment first. By doing so we can eliminate unnecessary arguing.
Click to expand...


Wrong answer. Present the evidence for why we should even waste our time on an experiment (especially since it's almost certainly going to be badly designed).
 
I second that, DrKitten.

Maybe you don't understand how this works. You have made a claim that clearly goes against currently accepted scientific ideals.

You came to us to prove your point. Read what follows very very carefully, as I am confidant that every other JREF member in here will agree with me:

The burden of proof is on you.

We will not be conducting any experiments on our own. You should have done this yourself before coming in here. All we ask at this stage of your claim is you present your findings and how you arrived at them.
 
Get a flashlight, go to your bathroom, fill up your tub with water, turn out the light, create a whirlpool, and shine the flashlight on it? Explain what happens and how.
It is imperative that you draw your own conclusion on what happens. Thats the evidence. If I tell you my opinion then I will be distorting the outcome of my mission.
 
Okay. I was trying to be polite, but you are either deliberately ignoring the previous posts or you do not have the mental capacity to understand how this works.

If this was an experiment you have used to verify and test your claim, then it is your responsibility to draw conclusions based off of observations and then present them to us.

Do you not understand this?
 
Ok when shining the flashlight upon the whirlpool I found a shadow beneath it and it reminded me of a black hole . Like the ones that hold galaxies together. That could possibly make whirlpools and galaxies related . If they are than I figured the whirlpool power idea could be possible. But popular physics will reject such a theory. Which is why I brought my idea to the JREF forum. Physists reject skeptism but you guys embrace it. In other words I am skeptical about todays popular physics. Help me out. The only way man can progress is to suspect popular belief to be false.
 
Whiz... I perused some of the sites you provided in the first post.

I want to respectfully say that you are wasting your time here.

I quote from the page that has the diagram of the "machine" you describe.

one can get more energy out of the system than has to be put in
Click to expand...

What you believe you have is a free energy machine, and that is in direct violation of the basic laws of physics.

Now, if you truly believe you have found this once mythical free energy machine, then I implore you to do yourself a favor and collect the billions upon billions of dollars due to you. You are wasting your time with us simpletons here when you are sitting on a revolution unlike anything man has ever seen.
 
Could it be that light never reaches the black hole because the vortex deflects it somehow because its spinning so fast. If that's the case wouldn't the deflected light's velocity be dramatically increased which could result in the light manifesting into an unknown form such as dark matter. Could it be the reason that white holes are visible because they are not spinning thus the light is not deflected. Now as for escape velocity I'm not sure of its origin. I suspect that maybe escape velocity was a calculation based on the assumption that light gets trapped in a black hole to begin with.
Get a flashlight go to your bathroom fill up your tub turn out the light create a whirlpool and shine a light on it?

Notice the dark circle
Did light get trapped in the vortex or did the vortex reflect it. I also can't help but notice the bright ring surrounding the circle.
The article below is the closest thing I found on the web related to my theory


" Scientists have demonstrated that pulses of light traveling down an
optical fibre can be made to affect other light waves in much the same way
as a black hole, thus creating an artificial black hole.

According to a report in Nature News, Ulf Leonhardt of the University of
St Andrews, UK, and his colleagues, conducted the experiment in a
laboratory.

*snip* http://www.andhranews.net/Technology/2008/March/7-Scientists-create-36401.asp
and tell me what you think.

This is the second time you have been cautioned about posting entire articles published elsewhere. This is a violation of Rule 4 of your Membership Agreement. Please cease and desist.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LibraryLady
 
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Two of your links were dead. Your third link show some kind of perpetual motion machine. It is very possible to do the math and calculate exactly what would happen when you turn it on. You should do this. Go ahead, I'll wait.
 
I'm sorry, but I do not see the connection between the above cited study and your assertion that light is being "deflected" from a black hole.

The bathtub exercise has nothing to do with black holes. Whatever sci-fi you have seen in the past, this is not the reality of what a black hole is. I suggest you look into a man by the name of Neil deGrasse Tyson. He does a wonderful job of breaking down the idea behind black holes and some of the more interesting properties of them.

Read up and let us know what you found out.

Cheers.
 
mrshadyvale said:
I'm sorry, but I do not see the connection between the above cited study and your assertion that light is being "deflected" from a black hole.

The bathtub exercise has nothing to do with black holes. Whatever sci-fi you have seen in the past, this is not the reality of what a black hole is. I suggest you look into a man by the name of Neil deGrasse Tyson. He does a wonderful job of breaking down the idea behind black holes and some of the more interesting properties of them.

Read up and let us know what you found out.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

explain why the shadow emerges underneath the whirlpool then vanishes when the whirlpool ceases. whats up with that
 
h.g.Whiz said:
explain why the shadow emerges underneath the whirlpool then vanishes when the whirlpool ceases. whats up with that
Click to expand...

It's called caustics.

If you look closely, you'll notice that for whatever dark portion there is, there is an equivalent lighter portion. The total amount of light is constant (excepting small differences in light absorption and reflection).

- Dr. Trintignant
 
h.g.Whiz said:
I say, for flight, look to the bird

For power, look to the hurricane.
Click to expand...
Of course! That's why all aircraft and rockets use flapping wings!

I say, for laffs, look to the posts by h.g.Whiz.
 
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h.g.Whiz said:
Get a flashlight go to your bathroom fill up your tub turn out the light create a whirlpool and shine a light on it?
Click to expand...
No thanks, but if you videotape yourself doing it and put it on YouTube, I will invite company over to watch it.
 
Dr. Trintignant said:
It's called caustics.

If you look closely, you'll notice that for whatever dark portion there is, there is an equivalent lighter portion. The total amount of light is constant (excepting small differences in light absorption and reflection).

- Dr. Trintignant
Click to expand...
Shame on you for bringing physics into this discussion.
 
There have been experiments with artificial tornadoes, as a power source. They are a form of solar energy, yet not better than others. I smell Rudolph Steiner here.
 
quarky said:
There have been experiments with artificial tornadoes, as a power source. They are a form of solar energy, yet not better than others. I smell Rudolph Steiner here.
Click to expand...

And there have been experiments with naturally grown tomatoes. If you stick two dissimilar metal wires in one, you can generate a slight voltage. You can try this in your bathtub with the lights off.

Attempts to scale this effect up to produce commercial amounts of power (and/or force) have had unfortunate effects. See the documentary, The Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. :eye-poppi
 
My late grandfather spent literally the last 15 years of his life obsessed with the idea that the current understanding of particle physics is just wrong and that electrons were shells around nuclei rather than particles that can be represented by a probability density.

He wrote huge manifestos on the subject, spent entire days on campuses in southern California passing them out to anyone who walked by, and tried to squander his wife's savings on forming a trust fund to keep the idea alive after his death.

He also asked me to figure out the mathematics of his theory for him, because I had gotten A's in college maths courses. I told him I didn't have the time or the knowledge, and after that he never really spoke to me again.

His knowledge of the subject, like yours, was limited to "intuition" derived from everyday observances of his rather than any analysis of experimental results. I distinctly remember him mentioning that when he worked on housing construction he noticed that nails would get hot when you pounded them through wood -- clear evidence that his theory was correct!

Don't waste your life as a crazy person like my grandfather. Read some books, go to school, get a job, and do something that is really important.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
And there have been experiments with naturally grown tomatoes. If you stick two dissimilar metal wires in one, you can generate a slight voltage. You can try this in your bathtub with the lights off.

Attempts to scale this effect up to produce commercial amounts of power (and/or force) have had unfortunate effects. See the documentary, The Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. :eye-poppi
Click to expand...


An image of ellron begins to form in my mind's eye...


M.
 
h.g.Whiz said:
Ok when shining the flashlight upon the whirlpool I found a shadow beneath it and it reminded me of a black hole . Like the ones that hold galaxies together. That could possibly make whirlpools and galaxies related . If they are than I figured the whirlpool power idea could be possible. But popular physics will reject such a theory. Which is why I brought my idea to the JREF forum. Physists reject skeptism but you guys embrace it. In other words I am skeptical about todays popular physics. Help me out. The only way man can progress is to suspect popular belief to be false.
Click to expand...
Why, other than analogy, should we consider a shadow to resemble a black hole? Just saying it is not enough.

Have you considered reflection and refraction to explain why the light of your flashlight is not transmitted evenly through turbid water?
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
And there have been experiments with naturally grown tomatoes. If you stick two dissimilar metal wires in one, you can generate a slight voltage. You can try this in your bathtub with the lights off.
Click to expand...

Okay, I have to get a plane ticket, fly to wherever in the world you currently reside, and give you a high five.

I el-oh-elled.

This is quickly becoming one of my favorite threads for laughs.

Gravy, hats off to you as well.

Cheers!
 
Hey dudes and Ms. dudes, I perused the site hosting the machine that will one day enslave us and use us as food... well, they offer many other services on top of hosting plans for impossible devices...

Individual or Group Transformational Intensive
A 1 to 5 day retreat using above mentioned services, expressive art projects, active meditation and stream of consciousness writing, along with other processes that assist in releasing emotional blocks. These processes enable people to clear old belief systems, clarify their present situation and their life purpose, access their unique Self and allow for an accelerated growth and manifestation of their unique Self.
Click to expand...

I was just saying to myself, "Writing for television is such empty and meaningless work. I think I am suffering from old belief systems and a lack of unique self."

But, according to the site, this is a group "interactive therapy."

So... who wants to join me? Who amongst you will dare to shed your shoddy old belief systems and explore your true purpose in life. I bet two hours into the session we all open a juice shop in Sedona, Arizona.
 
There was a story on NPR a couple of weeks ago. One of the commentators was talking about a fairly good friend of his who was normal in most ways. The guy somehow thought that even though he had no mathematics, that he had found a huge error in modern physics and that he thought he could prove that Einstein was wrong about E=mc^2 and that the speed of light was not a limit to how fast things could move. He showed his paper to a university physics professor who pointed out a great number of elementary misunderstandings. (Again, the guy fully admitted that he didn't know anything about the mathematics behind physics.)

I think it's an interesting sort of psychology.

h.g.Whiz, what makes you think that very learned astrophysicists might have missed something very very simple for so long? Why would you think that's more likely than the case that you might just have some fundamental (and simplistic) misunderstandings about these matters?
 
I have to agree, it is a very unique psychology.

On a serious note (I promise not for too long) I think it might be reduced to a simple argument from ignorance.

A lot of it is being unable to understand that because something is not visible through our five senses that it must not exist. Yes, I would grant them that it is counter-intuitive to say something like gravity exists... but they forget that man have discovered that there is more to observe in the world beyond our extremely limited five senses.

Math is so powerful it makes my brain want to explode. It is the only universal language. I may not understand the more advanced aspects... but I trust it because the only time it fails rests on the shoulders of a man that forgot to carry the proverbial two.

And now back to making fun of someone that might just need a hug and a beer.
 
Refraction, refraction, and, as mentioned, caustics.



The shadows under your whirlpool are there for the same reason you see differences in light distribution under water in pools, ponds, lakes and oceans.

Further, as mentioned, whirlpools are a use of energy. They transform gravitational potential energy into rotational kinetic energy.


It is up to you to prove the accepted physics wrong about this, not us.
I wish you luck, because the physics involved in whirlpools are the same made us of for aeronautical engineering. You know, airplanes, boats, fans, etc.
It is up to you to explain and demonstrate why the accepted physics, which works very well in all these applications (and is routinely tested), is wrong.


Your claim, your burden of proof. Hop to it.
 
A two word phrase sticks with me from my training as a meteorologist that I have always wanted to use in a post. This thread comes closest to it being applicable in all my years on the Intertubes -- "barotropic vorticity".

Thank you all. :)
 
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