So which are craziest, flatearthers, sovcits, or ...?

[MRC_Hans]

So been in a FE forum, for a while, but you can't argue with people who haven't got an argument. Then followed sovcits, moorish, and the like for a while.

In a way those people seem to be kind of rational, but what they believe just don't add up at all. Are there some even sillier, and what drives this?

Hans

 

[theprestige]

Sovcits., by far.

I'm convinced that most flat earthers are just cosplaying. And flat eartherism doesn't really have any practical effect. Same with most conspiracy theories. Believe whatever you want, the only real outcome is a distrust of authority and the media. Which is probably not a bad thing, even if some people take it to an extreme.

But sovcits are actually trying to apply their theories to real-world encounters with authority. Their whole thing only comes into play when they're trying to get concessions from The Man. It never works. It's the worst case scenario: Trying to live by your delusions in a world that absolutely does not care and will not accommodate them.

Sovcit is about as crazy as you can get without being literally insane.

 

[ahhell]

Flat earthers are more crazy but sovcits are more dangerous. The earth is obviously not flat and people have known that for 3000 years at least. Flat Earthers believe in a millennia's long conspiracy with the am of convincing people the earth isn't flat because.........profit!

Sovcits believe is some weird obscure legal theory. Sure, its crazy but its based on some weird understanding of the law rather than some weird and obviously false understanding of laws of physics and math.

My analogy is that Flat Earthers are saying the Sky is red where sovcits are saying the sky is the shade of lapis lazuli, wrong but at least in the same color family.

 

[theprestige]

Flat earthers are more crazy but sovcits are more dangerous. The earth is obviously not flat and people have known that for 3000 years at least. Flat Earthers believe in a millennia's long conspiracy with the am of convincing people the earth isn't flat because.........profit!

Sovcits believe is some weird obscure legal theory. Sure, its crazy but its based on some weird understanding of the law rather than some weird and obviously false understanding of laws of physics and math.

My analogy is that Flat Earthers are saying the Sky is red where sovcits are saying the sky is the shade of lapis lazuli, wrong but at least in the same color family.

Counterpoint: For pretty much everyone, pretty much all the time, it totally works to assume the earth is flat. Even airline pilots on transoceanic flights can assume the earth is flat, as long as they let their autopilot work, and follow their navigational prompts. They might change their mind if they look out the window, but it's not required in order for them to do their jobs. Even people actively involved with putting satellites into orbit only need to take the reality of a round earth into account for a very small (though admittedly important) part of their lives.

On the other hand, Sovcit theory is never a reasonable approximation of reality, and it always fails exactly when it's needed most.

Plus, I'm convinced that most conspiracy theorists are cosplaying, or indulging a fantasy that they know won't have any negative effect on anything that's actually important to them. They know they can afford to go all-in on their nonsense, because it doesn't actually cost them anything to do so.

Sovereign citizenship is the notable exception to the "harmless cosplay" rule of thumb. Sovereign citizenship is about actually applyiing the theory to real life scenarios with real life consequences. You can cosplay believing in Jewish Space Lasers. You can't cosplay trying to talk yourself out of a traffic ticket with an insane legal theory, and talking yourself into a felony instead. That's a real court appearance, a real fine, a real offense on your permanent record. That's crazy for real.

 

[bruto]

One might consider the nonsense of the flat earthers more pure, in that it carries little inherent reward for being right. The prestige has a point here. (p.s. I wonder how you are supposed to treat an uncapitalized name when it begins a sentence? Would quotes be better? Italics? Asking for an uncapitalized friend.)

It's true in one way that sovcits' insistence on pursuing a course that never succeeds and never can is pretty crazy, but it's a different kind of crazy, since, futile as the cause might be, there's a reward if it somehow succeeds.

I'm reminded of an old joke about a blind person selling pencils, with a price of $1000 apiece. Questioned, he says that yes, the price is very high, but he only has to sell one. I think of him as the sovcit here. The flat earther has a better price but no pencils in the cup.

 

[JayUtah]

I generally follow the sentiment that Flat Earthers are mostly harmless, probably cosplayers. This was the original intent. The Flat Earth Society was founded by scientists and science-minded people to facetiously debate the possibility of a flat Earth. The idea was to see how far you could go with the pseudo-science for comedy value. Nobody who participated believed the arguments sincerely.

And I thoroughly endorse the notion that sovereign citizens are dangerous, not only to themselves but to others. While it may be true that not everyone who tries those shenanigans in court believes in them sincerely, I have seen in our community the effects of sovereign-citizen belief.

Over the summer an otherwise perfectly sane young man was stopped by local police in a legitimate traffic stop for having invalid license plates on his car—they were self-made sovereign-citizen plates. This poor guy was a true believer. Despite my dislike for American police and policing standards, according to the body cam footage these officers did everything they could to de-escalate what was turning out to be a tense situation. Well, short of releasing him—which is always an option, but I digress. Ultimately this young man reached for a concealed weapon and was quite expectedly shot and killed.

I think QAnon is approaching that level of danger. As noted in a thread in the political forum, these ideas and the crazy believers in them are starting to have a measurable influence in American politics and are causing actual violence or threats of violence.

 

[Thermal]

Another vote for flat earthers are screwing around, sovcits are dumb and think they are gaming a legal.loophole, but Q-tips are genuinely batty.

 

[theprestige]

Another vote for flat earthers are screwing around, sovcits are dumb and think they are gaming a legal.loophole, but Q-tips are genuinely batty.

I tend to reserve "genuinely batty" for people who are suffering from actual mental disorders. Someone who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia is crazier in a real way than someone who espouses an "inside job" conspiracy theory out of some combination of boredom and ignorance.

My understanding here is that we're not talking about the actually insane. We're talking about people who are mentally functional, aside from their weird belief system which may or may not be sincere.

So how do we measure the "craziness" of someone who is functionally sane, but espouses a "crazy" belief? For me, the metric is what they actually do with their belief. What life choices they make, what consequences they choose to bring upon themselves.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

Flat-earthers seem kind of child-like, "everything I see is flat, therefore...." types. (or trolls.)

Sovcits have an immature view of how reality works, combined with antagonistic, anti-social, and sometimes violent ways of acting out.

The toddler with the gun gets the vote.

Anti-vaxxers are probably more dangerous in the long run, really, but I don't think their point of view is totally hard to accept. Not being sure if you want to put things in your/your childrens' bodies is a perfectly understandable POV. The inability to think past their fears is what gets problematic and frustrates the hell out of me.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

For me, the metric is what they actually do with their belief. What life choices they make, what consequences they choose to bring upon themselves.

The guy on the street corner saying crazy things gets my sympathy.

The guy who thinks pizza parlors are secret cabals for pedophiles, and that they need to shoot them up, that's a little tougher.

 

[Thermal]

I tend to reserve "genuinely batty" for people who are suffering from actual mental disorders. Someone who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia is crazier in a real way than someone who espouses an "inside job" conspiracy theory out of some combination of boredom and ignorance.

My understanding here is that we're not talking about the actually insane. We're talking about people who are mentally functional, aside from their weird belief system which may or may not be sincere.

So how do we measure the "craziness" of someone who is functionally sane, but espouses a "crazy" belief? For me, the metric is what they actually do with their belief. What life choices they make, what consequences they choose to bring upon themselves.

Oh, I wouldn't approach this from a clinical diagnosis POV. We generally don't have the credentials, or ability to diagnose in the abstract, which is why I use batty as the common speech identifier. They are just not using ye Olde noggin.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

Oh, I wouldn't approach this from a clinical diagnosis POV. We generally don't have the credentials, or ability to diagnose in the abstract, which is why I use batty as the common speech identifier. They are just not using ye Olde noggin.

Sir, this is the internet. Credentials? We don't need no stinkin' credentials.

 

[dann]

In Germany, sovcits (or sovcit-ish) are called Reichsbürger. And there's breaking news:

Nach Putsch-Plänen: Anklage gegen Reichsbürgergruppe um Prinz Reuß erhoben (MDR.de, Dec 11, 2023)

"Reichsbürger": Bundesanwaltschaft erhebt Anklage gegen Gruppe Reuß (NDR.de, Dec 11, 2023)

Sie wollten einen Umsturz. Die "Patriotische Union" um Prinz Reuß plante einen Bürgerkrieg in Deutschland, so die Ermittlungen der Bundesanwaltschaft. Die Doku erzählt die schier unglaubliche Geschichte der mutmaßlichen Terrorzelle und heftet sich an die Spuren der Mitglieder. Die Recherchen zeigen: Die Zerschlagung der Reuß-Truppe ist offenbar nicht das Ende der militanten Reichsbürgerszene.
Hilferuf an Putin / Ziel war die "Reorganisation“ Deutschlands mit russischer Unterstützung
Ein Jahr nach dem Auffliegen der mutmaßlichen Terrororganisation „Patriotische Union“ veröffentlicht die ARD Story „Schattenreich – die Umsturzpläne der Reichsbürger“ neue Einzelheiten aus einem Bittschreiben von Heinrich XIII. Prinz Reuß an den russischen Präsidenten Vladimir Putin, das der ARD Story in Ablichtung vorliegt. Sie zeigen, wie klar Reuß den russischen Präsidenten um Unterstützung für einen Umsturz in Deutschland bat.
Schattenreich - Die Umsturzpläne der Reichsbürger (SWR Doku, Dec 11, 2023 - 44:17 min)

Reichsbürgerbewegung (Wikipedia)
Reichsbürger movement (Wikipedia)

 

[MRC_Hans]

Well, I agree that FE is mostly harmless. Unless you have to navigate a ship or a plane or want a career in space exploration, believing the Earth is flat won't change your life much .... at least not if you keep your mouth shut about it.

Sovcits, OTOH, get real life problems. And they are a potential danger to society, even if only tying up law enforcement ressources that could be used meaningfully elsewhere. ... Let us also not forget the possible harm by someone causing a severe traffic accident, but having no insurance because they were "travelling".

Hans

 

[lobosrul5]

Sovcits., by far.

I'm convinced that most flat earthers are just cosplaying. And flat eartherism doesn't really have any practical effect. Same with most conspiracy theories. Believe whatever you want, the only real outcome is a distrust of authority and the media. Which is probably not a bad thing, even if some people take it to an extreme.

But sovcits are actually trying to apply their theories to real-world encounters with authority. Their whole thing only comes into play when they're trying to get concessions from The Man. It never works. It's the worst case scenario: Trying to live by your delusions in a world that absolutely does not care and will not accommodate them.

Sovcit is about as crazy as you can get without being literally insane.

That's taking an optimistic view of humanity. I'm not really sure if most of them are just trolling, having fun etc... I hope so. I will say that the ones who genuinely believe it are just so stupid that there is no point in even arguing with them. Flat-earth is the dumbest, but probably least dangerous conspiracy theory out there. Sovcit is much more dangerous, but not as dimwitted.

 

[ahhell]

In Germany, sovcits (or sovcit-ish) are called Reichsbürger. And there's breaking news:

Nach Putsch-Plänen: Anklage gegen Reichsbürgergruppe um Prinz Reuß erhoben (MDR.de, Dec 11, 2023)

"Reichsbürger": Bundesanwaltschaft erhebt Anklage gegen Gruppe Reuß (NDR.de, Dec 11, 2023)




Reichsbürgerbewegung (Wikipedia)
Reichsbürger movement (Wikipedia)

Well that is awesome, in a way they are sort of the opposite of SovCits thought. They seem to want to return to a German Reich with some even seeming to be monarchists. Whereas the SovCits are almost radical anarchists in a way. Claiming that only they have sovereignty over themselves and yer laws don't apply man, often for obscure pseudo legal reasons. And that's where they overlap with the Reichsburgers, hanging a weird legal theory on some nearly random line in treaty. Why I'm moderately fascinated with the SovCits, the logic of your laws don't apply to me for this legal loop that only exists in their imaginations. Something poetic and ironic about that.

I have to wonder, who they'd put on the throne of the Reich.

ETA" According to Wiki, its the great great grandson of Wilhelm II. It also mildly amuses me that most of the european surviving monarchies are descendants of minor german nobility.

 

[bruto]

That's taking an optimistic view of humanity. I'm not really sure if most of them are just trolling, having fun etc... I hope so. I will say that the ones who genuinely believe it are just so stupid that there is no point in even arguing with them. Flat-earth is the dumbest, but probably least dangerous conspiracy theory out there. Sovcit is much more dangerous, but not as dimwitted.

While I think that is generally true, and a reasonable point of view, it occurs to me, though, that it could be seen the other way around. Sovcits tend by their very principle to be the enemies of the powers that be, and thus tend not to get past the guards of the citadel. But conspiracy-addled and counterfactual nuts abound in positions of authority where policy is made. Even politicians too weak minded to resist idiocy will draw the line at threats to their own power.

This is just idle theory on my part, but I can see the possibility that a penchant for flat earth conspiracies is a visible presentation of a deeper tendency toward anti-vax, anti-environmental, anti-biology, Q asininity, and similar ideas as well, which, insinuating themselves into policy, pose a greater threat to our well being.

 

[theprestige]

The question is who is the craziest, not who is the most subtly dangerous to civil society.

 

[ahhell]

The question is who is the craziest, not who is the most subtly dangerous to civil society.

Which is why I go with the flat earthers as the craziest if possible least harmful.

Shape shifting lizard people might be actually crazier than flat earth while also being somewhat dangerous. At least David Icke seems to actaully believe in the lizard people.

And yes I realize its a bit of "Its the Jews" masquerading as "Its the Lizards!"

 

[bruto]

The question is who is the craziest, not who is the most subtly dangerous to civil society.

True to a point, if you count craziness only as a state of being, what you are. If you count its social side, what you do, the civil aspect becomes more relevant. I'm coming around to the possibility that flat earthers may win on both counts.

And after all, what you do with your ideas or your faults is part of what they become. The song is the same whether you sing it in the shower or Carnegie Hall, but the act is not. Florence Foster Jenkins gained fame not because she was a bad singer but because she failed to honor the difference.

Then again, I'm not willing to submit bat guano to the most exhaustive analysis, nor to a taste test, so someone with a mind more tuned to the finer points could come along with a better ranking, and I'd likely let it pass.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

at the Core, all these CTs have in common that its that their proponent feel like they don't understand the world as it is, or not good enough to be as successful as they think they deserve to be.
And they assume the reason for that is that less deserving people somehow "cheat", by having secret knowledge that they withhold from outsiders and actively stymy those who try to uncover it - hence the backlash for so many dangerous CTs.
This, of course, plays heavily into CT about (((minorities))), aliens, demons, etc.

basically, it's the result of having been told by swindlers over decades that they can be millionaires/superstars "with this one weird trick".

Project Camelot is an easily accessible Crazy who is waaaaaay out there.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Well .. Flatearthers are obviously totally bonkers if you strive for an evidence-based world-view. There are literally zero real-world observations that are effectively explained by the FE model, and it has zero practical value for any real-world undertakings.

However, the idea that the world can be effectively described through objective evidence is actually rather new. In fact it hasn't nearly been fully implemented yet. So what flatearthers actually do is they live out some urge to rebel against authorities and even gain themselves some fifteen minutes of fame, generally without any harm to their daily lives (I here assume that careers hindered by their worldview would be inaccessible to such people anyway).

In contrast, sovcits^*) tend to have endless conflicts with authorities, and nearly always losing. While this no doubt feeds their persecution complex, it is hardly conducting for their prosperity or happiness.

So, while flatearthers seem to have some free fun, sovcits often pay dearly for their follies.

Hans

*) By "sovcit" I refer to the general conglomeration of law-denier sects.

 

[MRC_Hans]

at the Core, all these CTs have in common that its that their proponent feel like they don't understand the world as it is, or not good enough to be as successful as they think they deserve to be.
And they assume the reason for that is that less deserving people somehow "cheat", by having secret knowledge that they withhold from outsiders and actively stymy those who try to uncover it - hence the backlash for so many dangerous CTs.
This, of course, plays heavily into CT about (((minorities))), aliens, demons, etc.

basically, it's the result of having been told by swindlers over decades that they can be millionaires/superstars "with this one weird trick".

Project Camelot is an easily accessible Crazy who is waaaaaay out there.

Well, that is a more or less universal folly of CTs: They assume some secret, powerful, and usually evil cabal that secretly rules the world and is suppressing all opposition, BUT they still think they can safely blather all over the internet about it.

Take sovcits again: They are calling police officers for pirates, highwaymen, and even murderers. - And still obstruct, restist, and try to intimidate them.

Now, if any sensible person was held up by actual armed murderous highwaymen, they should immidiately hand over all their values and comply with all commands, in the hope of getting away alive.

Which tells me that either they must be complete idiots or they don't really believe in all their nonsense.

Hans

 

[Darat]

Well, that is a more or less universal folly of CTs: They assume some secret, powerful, and usually evil cabal that secretly rules the world and is suppressing all opposition, BUT they still think they can safely blather all over the internet about it.

Take sovcits again: They are calling police officers for pirates, highwaymen, and even murderers. - And still obstruct, restist, and try to intimidate them.: boggled:
Now, if any sensible person was held up by actual armed murderous highwaymen, they should immidiately hand over all their values and comply with all commands, in the hope of getting away alive.

Which tells me that either they must be complete idiots or they don't really believe in all their nonsense.

Hans

It's one step beyond that - they think all these people, the "authorities" are in on the secret, which is why their "magic" words will work. Problem of course is how the hell has this remained such a secret since all court staff, all police staff, all lawyers etc. know all about these things.

 

[MRC_Hans]

It's one step beyond that - they think all these people, the "authorities" are in on the secret, which is why their "magic" words will work. Problem of course is how the hell has this remained such a secret since all court staff, all police staff, all lawyers etc. know all about these things.

Well, still; how can you imagine that you have this huge superscam with all the authorities in on it, and then think you can opt out of it by just declaring that you don't "contract" with them? They see the authorities as utterly corrupt, and yet assume the same authorities will in any way respect their hand-waving. It just does not compute.

Hans

 

[theprestige]

Which is why I go with the flat earthers as the craziest if possible least harmful.

You don't think someone who puts their absurd beliefs into practice in ways that have negative consequences for them is crazier than someone whose absurd beliefs have no real consequences at all?

 

[theprestige]

Well .. Flatearthers are obviously totally bonkers if you strive for an evidence-based world-view.

When was the last time you observed the curvature of the earth in your daily life?

If you were at a backyard barbecue or a cocktail party, and a flat-earther challenged you to prove the earth is round right there, what would you do? Put them in a car, drive to the coast, and wait for a ship to descend below the horizon? Plant a couple of sticks in the garden, measure some shadows over time and do some trigonometry on the results? For pretty much everyone, pretty much all the time, an evidence-based world view plausibly supports the idea of a flat earth.

A flat earth is our daily experience. You know otherwise primarly because of wisdom you've received from other sources. There are probably millions of people who go their entire lives believing this received wisdom, without ever carrying out any of the experiments or making any of the observations that actually verify it.

Sovcits, at least, put their theories to the test.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

When was the last time you observed the curvature of the earth in your daily life?

if you live near a mountain or very tall building ?

twice daily.

 

[theprestige]

if you live near a mountain or very tall building ?

twice daily.

After accounting for local non-flatness, and actually observing? I doubt it.

I live near several mountains and a cluster of tall buildings. Nothing in my daily vistas says to me, "hey, it looks like the earth is round". Hell, I just flew across the country and back. Looked out the window several times. Never once noticed whether the horizon actually curves down at the ends. I did, however, notice that the view was distorted around the window edges, and that it was impossible to clearly see anything that wasn't in the middle of the pane.

 

[ahhell]

You don't think someone who puts their absurd beliefs into practice in ways that have negative consequences for them is crazier than someone whose absurd beliefs have no real consequences at all?

Well, there have been flat earthers who've done exactly that.

As I've said, I think its an easier delusion to believe because it hangs on obscure and idiosyncatic understanding of the law. Where as flat earthers flat out deny what they can see. Its also a 2000+ year old conspiracy vs a 200+/- year old conspiracy.

Then, how often do most SovCits go to jail before they give up? The guy that's been in prison 3 times for the same BS, sure, he's crazier than the average Flatearther. The guy that gives up after once?

Keep in mind, there was at least one guy that tried to launch himself into space to prove the flat earth and at least one group that has dumped money into experiments that failed to prove the earth is flat, most of whom just explained away why the experiment failed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behind_the_Curve

 

[The Great Zaganza]

And, of course, you can see the round shadow of the earth on the moon most nights, waxing and waning which couldn't happen if the earth wasn't round.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

And, of course, you can see the round shadow of the earth on the moon most nights, waxing and waning which couldn't happen if the earth wasn't round.

Not sure if serious.

That's not the Earth's shadow. It's the part of the moon not directly lit by the sun. So effectively it's the moon's shadow.

 

[8enotto]

A principal problem with SovCidiot is each has his own specific laws set based on the constitution and court rulings of the corrupt, illegitimate government. Moorish is favored by one set, and the more adamant will have the full set of documents in a binder plus the id card and fake plates. Funny thing is Morocco has nothing to do with it beyond the right to fluff off US law.
Whitey needs to be more creative in his choice of powers that be over US law, but also base his new laws on parts he likes.
The UK has the best car elimination laws. Don't get your car up to date and pass MOT it's a cube in two weeks. There is no way around doing it right at all.

The goal is to waste as much time as possible with the greatest number of officers on scene before the arrest. Kind of a twisted civil disobedience thing that devolved from the protests of the 1960's.

It's also a way to legitimately avoid paying anything like taxes, car registration and anything else possible while still using the currency of the government they oppose.

But my guess it's about the money more than the civil disobedience rituals. That's just a ruse to hope they get off easy, one more time.

 

[novaphile]

Not sure if serious.

That's not the Earth's shadow. It's the part of the moon not directly lit by the sun. So effectively it's the moon's shadow.

Mooooooon shadow, moon shadow.

 

[theprestige]

And, of course, you can see the round shadow of the earth on the moon most nights, waxing and waning which couldn't happen if the earth wasn't round.

The moon moves into the earth's shadow every night? Remind me not to ask you for any astronomical proofs ever!

ETA: Anyway back to the cocktail party scenario. Pretend I'm a flat-earther, and I've challenged you to prove to me, right there, that the earth is round. What are you going to do? Wait for moonrise and tell me that disk-like shadow is proof? I'm just going to grab a coaster and a table lamp and project a round shadow on the wall, from a flat disk. What do you do then?

 

[Axxman300]

Counterpoint: For pretty much everyone, pretty much all the time, it totally works to assume the earth is flat. Even airline pilots on transoceanic flights can assume the earth is flat, as long as they let their autopilot work, and follow their navigational prompts. They might change their mind if they look out the window, but it's not required in order for them to do their jobs.

Counter-Counter-Point: the auto-pilot and navigation equipment is all based on a round planet. All of it. I'd never fly a commercial jet that had navigation software designed for a flat earth.

In short, the Flat-Earth concept doesn't work on people who passed high school science classes. They're on the same level as people who drink their own urine for health benefits.

 

[theprestige]

Counter-Counter-Point: the auto-pilot and navigation equipment is all based on a round planet. All of it. I'd never fly a commercial jet that had navigation software designed for a flat earth.

That's not really a counter (counter) point. The autopilot and nav equipment think about a round earth, and the pilot doesn't have to. Like I said, nothing changes if he assumes the earth is flat, as long as he follows his navigational prompts.

Kind of like when I had to learn to read military maps and report grid squares. The maps are round-earth aware, but I don't have to be. Map earth looks flat to me, and I can assume it is, as long as I correctly perform the rote steps of map-reading that I've been taught. The rote steps account for a round earth, but I don't have to know anything about that to successfully complete the task.

And here's the thing: Even the guy who programmed the autopilot only has to account for a round earth while he's doing that job. The moment his workday ends and he leaves the office, he can go right back to treating the earth as flat, and nothing changes. The guy who actually puts satellites into orbit for a living can pretend the earth is flat all the way through his commute, without repercussions. It's only when he actually sits down at his desk to work out the orbital mechanics of his next launch that the round earth matters at all.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Gotta give it to sovereign citizens. Or at least, the ones who have tried it and stuck around after they found out. Picture this:

1. Guy gets a (relatively) minor citation, such as cheating on his taxes, driving without a license, etc.
2. SovCit peddler says he has "one weird trick" to beat the rap, and possibly even walk away with a sack full of gold. Judges hate him!
3. Guy does what the peddler says, then eats a contempt charge for his courtroom antics (the original charges aren't going away).
4. Guy declares victory.

It's that step four that always gets me. I can kinda sympathize with steps 1-3. Nobody is perfect. We've all forgotten to use our turn signal once or twice. And in some cases, that means you find yourself staring down the barrel of the criminal justice system. That's a scary thing, and I understand someone seeking odd (but free!) advice in strange places.

But then, when it goes about as bad as is Constitutionally permissible, to still say that everything is going according to plan? I'm sorry, but that's just nuts. I'm amazed that these people don't continually find themselves getting sucked into a cult while waiting in the checkout line.

 

[ahhell]

Its not like there is a right answer to this question, its like just my opinion man. Is it more wrong to say 2+2 = 3 or 2+2 = 5?

 

[theprestige]

I think we can confidently say that some opinions are better than others, and that comparing two opinions to see if it's the case in this instance is not inherently a bad idea.

Like I'm always going to say that someone whose absurd beliefs keep getting them in trouble is crazier than someone whose absurd beliefs don't really cause any trouble for them at all. I'm never going to agree with your opinion to the contrary. Telling me it's just your opinion and there's no right answer isn't much of a rebuttal. In my opinion.