School Rules

wobs

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wobs
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We're at the stage where we are looking at high schools for second born.

Talking to other parents has revealed some interesting insights into modern schools, in terms of rules:
  • One school insists that kids carry their planner in their right hand when walking through school
  • School uniform - have to wear tie (an outdated concept for most of real world), among other strict rules for uniform (cost being an obvious downside). I mean really strict rules.
  • One way corridors (unless you're 6th Form), so you have to go round the whole building to get to a next class nearby, even when its quiet.

This isn't a modern phenomenon:
When I was at school in the 80s, we had a teachers path, that ran between the two main buildings. We had to walk on the road.

Is there any benefit to the kids for these stupid rules? I recall finding uniform uncomfortable, and a distraction as a result. Polo shirts seem the way forward, but many schools don't seem to go for them.

What stupid rules did you have at school?
 
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wobs said:
We're at the stage where we are looking at high schools for second born.

Talking to other parents has revealed some interesting insights into modern schools, in terms of rules:

One school insists that kids carry their planner in their right hand when walking through school
Click to expand...


What is a planner?
 
The tie sounds really dumb but probably harmless.

One way corridors seem kinda logical to handle high traffic, but likely really silly a lot of the time in practice.

Having to carry a planner, and specifically in your right hand, sounds like crazy cult stuff.
 
The only crazy school rules I can remember, from High School, is that the girls' uniforms were policed heavily.

In particular, measuring the distance from the knee to the hemline of the dress, while the girl was kneeling, and a rule that all buttons had to be buttoned at all times.

We only had to wear uniform during first year (and at formal occasions which were very rare), but the girls fought tooth and nail against those rules.

(Remember this is a hot climate, having to wear a dress buttoned to the neck one a 104°F (40°C) day, in classrooms with no air conditioning, seemed like deliberate torture.)

I can remember an English class where it was so hot, we couldn't do anything at all. The teacher said: "It's too hot to try and work. Read a book if you like, or sleep at your desks."

All the windows were open, and the single, ceiling mounted fan was moving the air, but that was it.

More than half the class, took the opportunity to sleep.

(In those conditions, we were barely getting any sleep at night, because our homes were no better.)

The hemlines were more a fashion thing though.
 
Rule in high school that the teachers shut and lock their doors the second the bell rings after passing period. No admittance, you have to go to the assistance principal of discipline's office... yes we had a dedicated principal for that. And at the very least miss that entire class. However, they also had the rule the teacher shall release the students, you cannot just leave when the bell rings, so you may not have the entire 5 minute passing period to get to your next class. There was also a rule of no running in the halls, and this was a large school with 4 or main 5 buildings and 3500 kids. Now just imagine the number of tardy's they had to deal with, all day long every day. This is one, but hardly the only, example of why in another thread I said Texas schools put education a distant fourth behind discipline, conformity, and football in importance. I had to actually start to beg my math teacher to let me leave in 10th grade as the bell rang or I'd never make it to art class 3 buildings away, in under 5 minutes.
 
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I went to High School in the USA in the 1960s. The biggest "rules" issues were girls' skirts and boys' hair. The former must not be too short; or the latter too long.
Except, of course, when I was in Grade 9 a couple of guys were sent home for shaving their heads; and about a year later a couple of girls were sent home for wearing "granny dresses"; i.e. too long.
Pants/trousers for female students was of course simply unthinkable.
But when my state was celebrating it's "territorial centennial", the boys were allowed to grow beards. I wasn't of an age to do so.
 
I teach in the Netherlands and in my school the whole uniform thing does not exist, but recently there was suddenly a rule implemented that hats and hoodies in the school are no longer allowed.
I have no clue why, and personally don't agree, but...

The thing causing the most disagreement among colleagues at the moment however is how to deal with cellphones. One the one end of the spectrum are those that see them as deadening the youth and who wish to banish them from school completely, regardless of the student's age, one the other end are those like me who feel that what they do in their breaks is their own choice and in class it's our job to teach them how to handle technology responsibly, while also integrating cell phones into lessons (ie, if they are gaming/texting you tell them to put it away, if they refuse confiscate the phone for the lesson, but if they want to use it to look up information that's fine).
 
Catholic high school: fixed uniform skirts and blouses for girls, boys could choose colors for dress pants, shirts, ties, and v neck sweaters. However, I was found in violation for wearing black pants, shirt and v neck with a white tie. Priests have no sense of humor.
 
Thermal said:
Catholic high school: fixed uniform skirts and blouses for girls, boys could choose colors for dress pants, shirts, ties, and v neck sweaters. However, I was found in violation for wearing black pants, shirt and v neck with a white tie. Priests have no sense of humor.
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I'm sure you looked very fetching. Hence the violation. Priests may have no sense of humour, but they -- many of them, some you'd never suspect -- have a well-developed sense of tumour.
 
We had slightly weird uniform rules - had to wear a black jacket, a grey herringboney tweedy jacket, or a shiny purple and black striped jacket; shirt had to be white, grey, or blue; trousers black; shoes black. I had the crazy jacket for my first year as it was a hand me down from a friend a couple of years older, but managed to persuade my mother to let me have the grey like everyone else for the next 4 years. In the sixth form, we could wear whatever colour jacket and shirt we liked, so I got some very stylish second hand stuff. I also couldn’t afford school shoes after buying 5 jackets so wore converse basketball shoes with black gaffer tape over the fluoro green star, and got punished fairly regularly when the tape came off.

Only one guy ever wore the black suit combo, and he wore it for the whole 7 years.

Other odd rules were that we weren’t allowed to walk on some of the grass, but were allowed on other bits; prefects were allowed a moustache, though few did in my time there; the head boy was allowed to tether a goat at the school, though none did in my time there; the head boy was also allowed to smoke a pipe, though etc.

Not a rule, but rigorously enforced: there were two teachers who took on themselves to make sure the kids showered properly after sport. One of them, the boarding house master, vanished between years 3 and 4 because he got caught sexually assaulting a kid in our year. I don’t think he ever went to court though. The other one died 10 years or so after we finished school; a couple of years after we left, we heard he had been badly beaten and hospitalised by a former victim.
 
Mojo said:
What is a planner?
Click to expand...

I've heard the term. I believe a planner is a three-ring binder for looseleaf notebook paper; often the binder has document pockets in the inside front and back covers and a vinyl pouch that has reinforced holes for the binding rings; it can hold pencils, pens, and other impedimenta. Often the school provides a planning sheet (class times, classroom numbers, perhaps teachers' names). One well-known American brand a few decades ago was the Trapper-Keeper.
 
I went to a new school, a school that was still being built when I left 5 years later, it had opened the year earlier so there was only one year above us. Which meant for the first few years we had a high teacher to pupil ratio which led to lots of teachers to enforce "discipline". School uniform was extremely strict and controlled, you could only buy the main components - blazers, ties, trousers, and shirts from two approved shops so they were expensive.

Any deviation from the uniform was a detention.

Didn't stop kids from trying to push it - tying ties was one form of pushback - either creating a thick knot with hardly any trailing part or the opposite, a very small knot with the narrow part at the front and you tucked the thick part into your shirt. Top button had to be fastened. No piercings, if girls had their ears pierced they couldn't wear anything in them when in uniform. No tights, the girl's socks had to come up to just below the knee. However, it was progressive (for the late 70s) so girls could wear trousers.
 
Spektator said:
I've heard the term. I believe a planner is a three-ring binder for looseleaf notebook paper; often the binder has document pockets in the inside front and back covers and a vinyl pouch that has reinforced holes for the binding rings; it can hold pencils, pens, and other impedimenta. Often the school provides a planning sheet (class times, classroom numbers, perhaps teachers' names). One well-known American brand a few decades ago was the Trapper-Keeper.
Click to expand...

Not sure what the planners are, but could be this.
 
Darat said:
<snip> School uniform was extremely strict and controlled, you could only buy the main components - blazers, ties, trousers, and shirts from two approved shops so they were expensive. <snip>
Click to expand...

Likewise. Added to the blazer, hat, pleated skirt, blouse and tie, with optional summer dress, there was also a netball and hockey skirt to buy as well as the polo-style top. Boys, their version. We had to wear stockings or tights or knee-length white socks. I recall my shoes being lace-ups but got trendier as the years went by.

I always thought the shop which supplied the uniform exclusively would be rolling in the money having been granted that privilege so imagine my surprise when I worked in Insolvency Practice years later to note that my particular supplier of its particular address had gone into liquidation. (I can't remember if it was compulsory or voluntary.)

It could simply be fashions changed, from expecting clothes to last a long time, we now expect them to be more or less disposable and cheap, cotton and polyester instead of wool. Less fiddly, no silk ties and fancy badges.

I recall when I first started I loved all the rules. I loved everything about it, the homework, the exams, it was great.
 
Cat Not Included said:
The tie sounds really dumb but probably harmless.

One way corridors seem kinda logical to handle high traffic, but likely really silly a lot of the time in practice.

Having to carry a planner, and specifically in your right hand, sounds like crazy cult stuff.
Click to expand...

This seems reasonable. I honestly think uniforms are a good idea as long as its simple and cheap. Poorer kids don't have to worry about that being obvious if everyone is dressed the same. There's no fashion competition and what not. Ties seem silly at this point though.

The planner thing does seem quite odd, I've never heard of such a thing.
 
Spektator said:
I've heard the term. I believe a planner is a three-ring binder for looseleaf notebook paper; often the binder has document pockets in the inside front and back covers and a vinyl pouch that has reinforced holes for the binding rings; it can hold pencils, pens, and other impedimenta. Often the school provides a planning sheet (class times, classroom numbers, perhaps teachers' names). One well-known American brand a few decades ago was the Trapper-Keeper.
Click to expand...

I would call that a 3-ring binder. I would take a "planner" for a student to mean a book with calendar pages to note assignments, etc. Synonyms would be day planner, date book, appointment book, personal organizer, etc. I think these are sometimes called "diaries" in British English, if I've interpreted the lingo in Brit tv shows correctly.
 
Hmm...

This has reminded me. Our school uniform included hats.

Straw Boaters for the guys, and a wider brimmed, round topped hat for the girls.

I don't think I ever saw anyone wear one of the school hats.

But I still have the school crest from my blazer pocket.

(The rest of the blazer was eaten by mice while it was stored in my father's garage.)
 
These must all be private schools. I find it hard to believe that a public school could make up stupid rules like these and get away with it.

And I would be surprised if some of the rules that a private school imposes haven't been challenged in court on the basis that they are discriminatory.
 
Yeah, my public school had basically a guideline that said we should wear a yellow top and brown trousers or skirts, but it was not rigidly enforced.

BTW "public" school meaning government school, not the weird way that term is used in the UK.
 
We had a school uniform, but only for the sports activities.
These were provided by the school and were, as far as I can remember, the same for boys and girls (Netherlands by the way).

There were rumors of a school in the neighborhood having some kind of traffic light system in the stairway part of the building. But that was because it was a rather old building with quite a lot of students present. Never been in that school though, so might very well have been just a rumor, back in the day.

For the rest, there were the normal rules. No running in the corridors and no entering the classrooms ahead of the teacher (although that last rule was more or less ignored, as the teachers quite liked the classroom and students being ready for them, so they could start sooner with the lessons.)
There was one teacher who insisted on standing in the classroom doorway, and upon entering you had to give him a hand, while greeting him with 'Good day, mr Werner'. If you forgot, you had to go back to the corridor, go to the back of the queue and 'try' again.
But he was the sole exception in this regard.
 
psionl0 said:
These must all be private schools. I find it hard to believe that a public school could make up stupid rules like these and get away with it.

And I would be surprised if some of the rules that a private school imposes haven't been challenged in court on the basis that they are discriminatory.
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It applies equally to public and state schools in the UK.
 
Spektator said:
I've heard the term. I believe a planner is a three-ring binder for looseleaf notebook paper; often the binder has document pockets in the inside front and back covers and a vinyl pouch that has reinforced holes for the binding rings; it can hold pencils, pens, and other impedimenta. Often the school provides a planning sheet (class times, classroom numbers, perhaps teachers' names). One well-known American brand a few decades ago was the Trapper-Keeper.
Click to expand...

Ah. So it's a Day-Timer®! I was greatly amused to see these still exist; vide: https://www.daytimer.com/en-ca/
 
wobs said:
Guessing its in speech marks, as you don't agree with the answer?
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arthwollipot said:
I don't think it's a valid reason for stupid rules, no.
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Damn right.

We are citizens not subjectsb laws are in place for our collective benefit. There should be no more than necessary for that, and as school is supposed to a preparation for society, its rules should reflect that philosophy.

I would not want my kids to have learned mindless obedience.
 
I went to some private schools at times, and there were all sorts of rules on dress and manners and such, and to hell with them all.

But the school that really boggles the mind was the George Ford Elementary School in Detroit, where I went for first grade. I have trouble convincing people this was real, but one of the rules was that one had to walk down the corridors in strict single file, and that included taking the corners at a precise 90 degrees. Even in first grade, the school was run like a junior high, with students going from classroom to classroom, so there was a lot of marching. There were frequent assemblies, where we watched movies, usually some kind of government public service stuff about how we were all going to be bombed by the Russians. We had a science class, in which about the only movie I remember was about the scourge of malaria. The school was firmly dedicated to "whole word" reading, such that most students in first grade couldn't read, and we spent so much time on that that we did not get any arithmetic at all - not even counting. It started out with a giant Dick and Jane flipbook which the teacher opened at the head of the class. Run Dick Run. We did have a time learning to read a clock, which I found difficult, because the hands were defined as big and little. According to idiot psychologists, kids that age think of the long hand as bigger whether it is or not. I did not. I thought the short fat hand was bigger than the long thin one. My confusion on this was baffling to the teacher, who was apparently incapable of conceiving that the difference between hands is length. I did learn to read (at home, phonically) and got a watch for my 6th birthday halfway through the year, whereupon I also learned to tell time.

We also had, of course, air raid drills, in which it was obligatory to put your right arm over the head and the left under. To do it in reverse was wrong!

Oh, and there was a rule that if you lived within a mile of the school you were not permitted to bring lunch. You had to go home. The lunch room was virtually empty, but every day my mom had to come to school to walk us home, whereupon we had about ten minutes to wolf down lunch before being walked back. The rule, like all rules there, was inflexible. It did not matter that I was 5 years old and living in a city.
 
State grammar school from 1969-76:

Caps to be worn for all of first year and until Easter of second year;

Separation of indoor shoes and outdoor shoes. Outdoor shoes were "proper" shoes to be worn only for coming to school and going home at the end of the day. One was to change out of them immediately on arrival and could not change back into them until the bell for the end of the day. One could not go home in indoor shoes. One could, however, wear indoor shoes outside at breaktimes, so many of the lads wore trainers so they could play football;

All manner of idiocy around ties and hair length;

Not being allowed to stay inside school buildings during breaks, except for going in for lunch or having very specific permission to do so. Bad weather was a different matter.

It all got very silly and was the start of my intense dislike of arbitrary rules arbitrarily applied. Even worse was the prefect system, under which the "better ones" of the lower sixth were selected to enforce these ridiculous rules. I tried to get out of it, had a row with my mum, who insisted it was an "honour", and I only backed down when informed that the head master would write negative comments on my university application.

Licensed bullying, a bit like most of our games and PE lessons.

Did I mention I grew to dislike school, despite retaining my liking for learning?
 
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wobs said:
We're at the stage where we are looking at high schools for second born.

Talking to other parents has revealed some interesting insights into modern schools, in terms of rules:
    • One school insists that kids carry their planner in their right hand when walking through school
  • School uniform - have to wear tie (an outdated concept for most of real world), among other strict rules for uniform (cost being an obvious downside). I mean really strict rules.
  • One way corridors (unless you're 6th Form), so you have to go round the whole building to get to a next class nearby, even when its quiet.
Click to expand...

Does the school also have a rule about which side of the corridor students walk? Having them walk on the right side with their planner in their right hand might actually make a fair bit of sense, it reduces the chances of someone dropping their planner by knocking it against someone coming the other way, or a bully coming the other way grabbing it as they pass and stealing or throwing it. This minimises at least one possible cause of disruption when you're trying to get hundreds of school age kids from one place to another in as short a time as possible.
 
I was kinda lucky (UK State school in the 80s). We had a 'uniform' but it was only specified in terms of colours - basically black, white and grey, with the option of maroon for a sweater. Few rules about movement other than 'no running inside' which makes sense in a busy school and the sixth form had their own dedicated staircase up to the sixth form area, but that always felt a bit anachronistic - if you turned right instead of left at the top of the stairs, you got to the headmasters office and the library, and going all the way round was a bit of a pain, particularly for those of us who spent a lot of time in the library.

I'm sure there were other things that either didn't impact on me or I didn't think about - my school life was always a little way off the 'average' because my dad was the deputy head, so I didn't get much scope for rebellion ;)

However that school is now an academy, and they have a whole plethora of rules - including a very formal uniform policy (until sixth form) which runs to six pages (to be fair, most of those pages are image-heavy as they include examples of acceptable and unacceptable items for each category)

Looking back at that, the sixth form were always treated quite differently at my school - no uniform, own staircase, dedicated study areas, only 6th form pupils allowed to leave school grounds without special permission etc. I wonder if that is/was common?
 
Skirt length for girls and hair length for boys was the big thing when I was in high school in the 1960's. It was amusing when a couple of girls came to school in "granny dresses" and got sent home for having their skirts too long! And a couple of boys shaved their heads and the school wasn't happy but couldn't do much about it.
 
High school did have certain stairs designated "up" or "down" when changing classes.

You were expected to be quiet moving around, but not absolutely silent.

Uniform suggested (there was a school badge and tie but not compulsory): blue/white shirt, dark trousers/skirt, though there was a fair amount of flexibility. Only no-no was wearing denim.
 
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In America, public schools are utterly obsessed with the "no hats" rule. I mean obsessed. For whatever reason, wearing a hat or cap (or hoodie or bandana or doorag) is considered a huge faux pas.

Even the teachers couldn't understand why and thought it was absurd - but they had to enforce it.

Officially, they say it is because hats are "a symbol of gang affiliation" but that can't be the real reason why. There were no gangs!

Enforcing the rule actually created a bigger commotion and distraction than the cap itself did. There was this one wigger boy named Eddie who insisted on wearing his hat every single day. Every single day a teacher called Ms. di Zeba battled Eddie for the hat. I swear, every day consisted of Eddie fighting her over the blasted hat. I remember her trying to rip it from his head every day more than I remembered her actual lessons.

I don't know why the school had to be so cruel about it. Maybe his mother had given him a humiliating hair cut and he wanted to hide it.
 
In Australia, the skin cancer capital of the world, hats were made mandatory for schoolkids back in the 80s. Kids just aren't allowed to go outside if they're not wearing a wide-brimmed sun hat in school colours.
 
Our school in the 70s had all kinds of uniform rules.

We had a set uniform we had to wear.
Boys years 1 to 4 grey trousers, dark blue blazer, white shirt red jumper, blue and yellow school tie and black shoes.
Girls the same but grey skirt not shorter than 1 inch above the knee. Underwear navy blue pants and white bra.
Blazers had to have school badge on breast pocket.
Year 5 black blazer and trousers, black jumper, white shirt and black tie with school badge on blazer.
Girls same but black skirt.
Our area had separate 6th form colleges rather than being part of a school as most of the country did.

On top of that there were a host of ad-hoc rules banning all kinds of shoes, boots, coats, jackets and trouser styles as various things became fashionable.
Finding ways to bend and break uniform rules was almost a full time occupation.
Staff were constantly on their guard against a hint of flares, platforms, wedges, punkishness Mods and DMs.

They weren't bothered about hair much, styles among the boys varied from long, flowing locks to razor cuts.

Despite all the effort we were the scruffiest bunch of kids you would ever see.
 
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