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Psychics and Missing People

bjb said:
I can think of a missing persons case involving Sylvia Browne. About ten years ago, she was on the Montel Williams show, talking about missing persons cases. One case involved that bass player from Iron Butterfly, who had gone missing a year or so earlier. Anyway, Sylvia claimed she saw him being kidnapped and taken aboard a boat. She also said he was probably dead,which seemed very cruel of her to say. A couple of years later, his remains were found:

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,4843,00.html

I don't recall any news stories about Sylvia Browne being wrong about this case, but maybe James Randi has better documentation in his files.
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Sylvia Browne is just a longwinded way of writing 'wrong'
 
bjb said:
I can think of a missing persons case involving Sylvia Browne. About ten years ago, she was on the Montel Williams show, talking about missing persons cases. One case involved that bass player from Iron Butterfly, who had gone missing a year or so earlier. Anyway, Sylvia claimed she saw him being kidnapped and taken aboard a boat. She also said he was probably dead,which seemed very cruel of her to say. A couple of years later, his remains were found:

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,4843,00.html

I don't recall any news stories about Sylvia Browne being wrong about this case, but maybe James Randi has better documentation in his files.
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eonline.com said:
Hikers found the remains Saturday near a totaled 1993 Ford van at the bottom of a canyon, more than 400 feet below the nearby road, in Southern California's picturesque Malibu. Evidence suggests the crash was the result of a suicide mission, the Los Angeles Times says.
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Clearly, Sylvia got it all correct. His kidnappers sailed their boat up the road to where they had stashed an old Ford van, which they then forced him to commit suicide in. Yeah, that's how it happened.
 
KellyJ said:
Anyone feel liike gently setting them straight?

http://www.jenniferkesse.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=6

I don't have anything to do with this case. Someone just posted my blog link there, but I do not know who they are.
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Well, I would, but I do not think I am the man for that job. Perhaps MRC_Hans would be a better choice. HIs display of civility against teh homeopaths is well known, even when most mere mortals would have let loose.


I'll make a very polite post, and hope they don't come back angry. If they do I'll avoid the rest. No need to start flame wars on someone's missing persons forum.


ETA: No I will not. Frankly what those people are doing by speculating places and names in that forum is rather insensitive to the family's situation, and they are true believers(TM). It would end in a nasty flame war. My heart goes out to that family, and I hope they do not fall prey to the guilt that would cause them to desperately use a psychic. I will not, however walk into a nest of snakes in their backyard if only to spare them an ugly happening on their own forum. Perhaps we can invite the believers in psychics over here.
 
No, we would never want to start a battle on a forum like that. I have no doubt that your observation is dead on. It would probably end up like CTV.

I hope they will read the blog.

It annoyed me there was even a person who admited to not being a psychic, and they were jumping all over that, too. :(
 
Gr8wight said:
It appears that forum has been taken down. Kelly's link takes me directy to the home page, where I can find no link to a forum.
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I wonder what happened? Oh, well. At least that person had our link up for awhile. Maybe someone in the family saw it.
 
KellyJ said:
Anyone feel liike gently setting them straight?

http://www.jenniferkesse.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=6

I don't have anything to do with this case. Someone just posted my blog link there, but I do not know who they are.
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Your link doesn't seem to work, but I found this: http://jenniferkesse.com/guestbook/

I heard on a radio program, the Philips Phile (104.1 FM), that there was a psychic called "Sunshine", who was calling and said that she knew where Jennifer was, etc., but that she didn't want to call the police and tell them because the police would not take her seriously.

The members of the radio program, aired from 3-7 pm, took down her phone number, in case you want to call her. You can call the Philips Phile at 407-916-1041.
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Posted by "Anonymous". Yeah.

I have responded at the end of the guest book entries and referred the family to this topic.
 
Great idea to post that, Luke. It's probably a moderated guestbook. If the manager of it is a TB, we'll probably not see it. We can only try.
 
KellyJ said:
Great idea to post that, Luke. It's probably a moderated guestbook. If the manager of it is a TB, we'll probably not see it. We can only try.
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I'm tempted to call the phone number of that DJ (Philips Phile at 407-916-1041) and have a few words with him.
 
*pops up out of the woodwork*
I have been following this thread, and though I have communicated my support, admiration and respect to KellyJ elsewhere, haven't had any practical suggestions. I am humbled to be a fellow member of such intelligent, caring, constructive and helpful forumites.

Gr8wight said:
It appears that forum has been taken down. Kelly's link takes me directy to the home page, where I can find no link to a forum.
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It's working for me. Here's a link to the thread in question.
 
orphia nay said:
*pops up out of the woodwork*
I have been following this thread, and though I have communicated my support, admiration and respect to KellyJ elsewhere, haven't had any practical suggestions. I am humbled to be a fellow member of such intelligent, caring, constructive and helpful forumites.




It's working for me. Here's a link to the thread in question.
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Orph, yer a sweetheart :)
 
Gr8wight said:
Thanks for that, although when I went there, my heart fell. There is an entire section of the forum dedicated to psychics.
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Not only that, but they appear to be listening to anyone who has some sort of vision. I don't think these are family members posting, but I also have no doubt that family members read this drivel.
 
KellyJ said:
Not only that, but they appear to be listening to anyone who has some sort of vision. I don't think these are family members posting, but I also have no doubt that family members read this drivel.
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Well, without posts from the family we don't know if they are buying into it. they very well could be saying "oh look, another idiot with a psychic claim."

At least I hope they are.

Perhaps it would be best to invite those forum members over here.
 
KellyJ said:
It's on there now, but appears to be cut off.

http://jenniferkesse.com/guestbook/
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There's alot of true believers there. I fear a skeptical point of view critical of psychics isn't going to be welcome much.

From time to time, skeptics are treated as though they just strangled a puppy in the middle of a party when we critically examine someone's fast held beliefs in the paranormal.
 
fowlsound said:
There's alot of true believers there. I fear a skeptical point of view critical of psychics isn't going to be welcome much.

From time to time, skeptics are treated as though they just strangled a puppy in the middle of a party when we critically examine someone's fast held beliefs in the paranormal.
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I think Luke's was cut off due to space. I signed it, too, but said nothing about psychics. If they do read that forum, they will probably recognize the name.

In good news, our own Chillzero has submitted an excellent guest piece for the blog series! Thank you!
 
fowlsound said:
From time to time, skeptics are treated as though they just strangled a puppy in the middle of a party when we critically examine someone's fast held beliefs in the paranormal.
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If we can just get to that mild response, we have come far.
 
fowlsound said:
From time to time, skeptics are treated as though they just strangled a puppy in the middle of a party when we critically examine someone's fast held beliefs in the paranormal.
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It's more like we're treated as though we took a **** on the coats.
 
rjh01 said:
Another link to Lets Help Find Jennifer Kesse web site. This one takes you to the main forum page.

http://jenniferkesse.org/forum/index.php?d=390a2d2a9d5e1b37e5e00a353bee4bdd

I understand this is not authorised by the family. See http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/2006/03/the_kesse_web_s.html#more
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Right. I heard there was a spat between the two. I am sure, however, that the family is still reading the other one. They would have a vested interest in what is going on with it. Thanks for the links.
 
The blogger posting mechanism is down, and has been since last night. I am unable to post my next part in the series until they get it fixed again. :mad:
 
sophia8 said:
That's Orac - he mostly attacks medical fraud and quackery, as you'd expect, but he sometimes takes a break to give a polished slapdown to other frauds as well.
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Thank you for letting me know. It is indeed polished. I'll have to hunt him down and thank him later on.

I'm off on some errands and I have a press conference early this evening on a local case of a missing child.
 
I just received today and was given permission to use a IM dialog between a psychic and one of our family members. It's somewhat long and shows the psychic is wrong about numerous things throughout, generally ignoring the wrongs or trying to make excuses. It would be highly entertaining if not for the subject matter.
 
KellyJ said:
Someone posted an article about my series on a science blog. They did an excellent intro. Does anyone know who this is?

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/03/project_jason_psychics_and_mis_1.php

The Blogger uploader is still down.
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Orac was the person I mentioned earlier. I sent him the link. He put me off, by saying he would forward it to the next Skeptics' Circle host. I presume he read the first couple of posts and decided to mention it earlier. I thanked him in his comment thread.
 
Gr8wight said:
Orac was the person I mentioned earlier. I sent him the link. He put me off, by saying he would forward it to the next Skeptics' Circle host. I presume he read the first couple of posts and decided to mention it earlier. I thanked him in his comment thread.
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I thought that was you. I thanked him as well. Quite a few hits are coming from there.
 
KellyJ said:
I thought that was you. I thanked him as well. Quite a few hits are coming from there.
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He has a big readership. I wonder if we can get Dr. Myers from Pharyngula to give you a mention? He's got one of the largest readerships in the skeptical and scientific blogosphere. I'll pop a note off to him tonight.
 
Gr8wight said:
He has a big readership. I wonder if we can get Dr. Myers from Pharyngula to give you a mention? He's got one of the largest readerships in the skeptical and scientific blogosphere. I'll pop a note off to him tonight.
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I don't mind links. That will be interesting if he does post it, as he appears to be pretty much anti-religion. He may be like Susan Blackmore about not wanting association unless disclaimers are used. It's his call, of course.

I am trying to present this and keep religion out of it unless it goes with what I am writing. Family members sharing stories may include statements about religion, and I will not edit. I also have planned a guest writer who will present the Christian viewpoint on why we as beleivers, are not to use psychics or things like tarot cards and oiujia boards, etc. Overall, it's a well balanced presentation in my opinion.

Thank you!

Kelly
 
KellyJ said:
I don't mind links. That will be interesting if he does post it, as he appears to be pretty much anti-religion. He may be like Susan Blackmore about not wanting association unless disclaimers are used. It's his call, of course.

I am trying to present this and keep religion out of it unless it goes with what I am writing. Family members sharing stories may include statements about religion, and I will not edit. I also have planned a guest writer who will present the Christian viewpoint on why we as beleivers, are not to use psychics or things like tarot cards and oiujia boards, etc. Overall, it's a well balanced presentation in my opinion.

Thank you!

Kelly
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Yes, PZ is an avowed atheist. However, he is against stupidity more than anything else. His beef is only with those who insist on a literal interpretation of the bible (specifically Young earth Creationism) despite all evidence to the contrary.
 
KellyJ said:
There's a few things I would like to have.

1) A dialog between a missing person family and a psychic that shows the methods the psychic uses to extract information and convince the family that they really do have paranormal abilities.
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KellyJ said:
I just received today and was given permission to use a IM dialog between a psychic and one of our family members. It's somewhat long and shows the psychic is wrong about numerous things throughout, generally ignoring the wrongs or trying to make excuses. It would be highly entertaining if not for the subject matter.
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Now we're getting somewhere.

The longer the diaolog, the better. It shows how a psychic will use maxiumum verbosity, counting on the victim to remember the hits and forget the misses.

I read your encounter with Sharon Nolte. Three hours! Same thing. Gibber on incessantly, using what information you gave her to weave a giant tapestry of B.S. in the hopes something will ring "true" for you later on, or to plant an idea in your head that just won't go away, causing you to seek confirmation.

Any chance we can take a look at this IM dialog? It should be made public, and let me tell you why.

About ten years ago, my wife was working as a server at a restaurant owned by a guy who believed in psychics. One day, he told his employees that he was bringing a psychic in to do readings for everyone, and that it would cost 35 dollars. Creep.

My wife and I weren't married at the time, but we were in a serious relationship. When she told me about this psychic business, I gave her my strong opinion about the matter.

However, my wife was going through an extremely dark period at the time. Her father had just died suddenly, and her mother was dying from cancer. So she was vulnerable to psychics, and sat for a reading.

She came home with all kinds of bugaboos in her head, one of which was an obsession with the number 5. The psychic had played up the number 5 as being of significance. Of course, when someone plants such an idea in your head, you see 5's everywhere. Oooh! See? She was right!

Anyway, there was no JREF forum back then, but there was a randi.org. And Randi had a sample psychic reading on this site. So I sat my wife down at the computer and called up the sample reading.

Of course, it bore a remarkable resemblance to the psychic reading she had just received a few days before.

30 seconds later, my wife was converted and ready to take a shotgun to the psychic's face.

That's why any dialog you have, Kelly, is of utmost importance. It will help other people see it's all the same old B.S.

If they have heard it before, they will recognize it immediately. If they haven't heard it yet, they will recognize it when they hear it again.

Either way, it will snap people back to reality.
 
I ought to mention, Kelly, I put a mention of your site on the EveryTruckJob.com forum. Hopefully, that will generate some more hits, and get the word out.
 
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