National Math/Reading Scores tank...

[AlaskaBushPilot]

The largest decline in math in the history of this assessment, in fact.


https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/24/american-test-scores-schools-00063067

We've been watching closely, and it is no mystery to us. Right now the big push is DEI - Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.

We read the minutes of their meetings and it is amazing how every subject, every student activity, every syllabus and bus trip is being reviewed to make sure the agenda saturates every minute of the school's time.

It used to be the three R's.

Another big win for homeschool. Our 12 year old is taking the SAT on December 2.

 

[Norman Alexander]

The largest decline in math in the history of this assessment, in fact.


https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/24/american-test-scores-schools-00063067

We've been watching closely, and it is no mystery to us. Right now the big push is DEI - Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.

We read the minutes of their meetings and it is amazing how every subject, every student activity, every syllabus and bus trip is being reviewed to make sure the agenda saturates every minute of the school's time. It used to be the three R's.
Another big win for homeschool. Our 12 year old is taking the SAT on December 2.

Oh, you know better than the people who actually did the survey and reported on it, as per your own link. Good, then. You roll with homeschooling and see how that benefits your children in the future.

Statistics released Monday defy easy explanations and standard political partisanship. Declines afflicted states and major cities whether they were led by Republicans who pushed to quickly reopen schools amid the pandemic or Democrats who urged a more cautious return to normal classes. Federal testing officials insist the results reveal no singular correlation between scores and remote or in-person learning.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Oh, you know better than the people who actually did the survey and reported on it, as per your own link. Good, then. You roll with homeschooling and see how that benefits your children in the future.

They've both finished high school, so I am not sure what that comment about the future means.

Our 12 year old is doing an apprenticeship with a top field applications engineer at Renesas Corporation in microprocessor engineering, using their suite of micro-controller products.

He's already been accepted at the University but his scholarship will depend on his SAT score. His mentor at Renesas seems to think he should just keep working on his portfolio of work product, the school isn't as important.


Our 11 year old contracts for $100/hour on our heavy equipment. His summer season is over now so he is running our fully equipped 50 x 24 shop. He negotiates by the job. He's replacing a Subaru engine right now for $3,000. The engine was $500, it has 30k miles on it. He pockets the rest.

He owns a boom truck, a car, and has 19.5 ounces of gold in his safety deposit box. He hasn't even reached puberty yet. Neither has.

 

[psionl0]

The largest decline in math in the history of this assessment, in fact.


https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/24/american-test-scores-schools-00063067

We've been watching closely, and it is no mystery to us. Right now the big push is DEI - Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.

We read the minutes of their meetings and it is amazing how every subject, every student activity, every syllabus and bus trip is being reviewed to make sure the agenda saturates every minute of the school's time.

It used to be the three R's.

Another big win for homeschool. Our 12 year old is taking the SAT on December 2.

STEM is the exact opposite of DEI so it must be a dirty word.

Who cares whether students actually learn anything as long as we can keep fully grown teenagers off the streets?

 

[arthwollipot]

My opinion is that STEM and DEI are neither opposites nor incompatible, and both can be taught at the same time.

 

[Samson]

My opinion is that STEM and DEI are neither opposites nor incompatible, and both can be taught at the same time.

Maybe.
But Jack Niklaus said he could teach a long hitter to hit straight but not vice versa.
Teach the kids to do all maths in their heads after rote learning , teach them to read and write with phonetics, then interfere with their ordinary social development at your leisure.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Yet, liberals here howled and mocked when some Republicans questioned the value of public education a few months ago. The Republicans' point is that it is long past time that we rethink our entire approach to K-12 education. They weren't saying that we should not educate our kids. They were saying that public schools are clearly failing to do this far too often.

As someone who has mentored and tutored many teenagers, I completely agree. I've tutored high school juniors and seniors who'd never heard of Pearl Harbor, couldn't do basic math (like multiplication), couldn't identify the parts of a sentence, and could barely read.

 

[catsmate]

Yet, liberals here howled and mocked when some Republicans questioned the value of public education a few months ago. The Republicans' point is that it is long past time that we rethink our entire approach to K-12 education. They weren't saying that we should not educate our kids. They were saying that public schools are clearly failing to do this far too often.

As someone who has mentored and tutored many teenagers, I completely agree. I've tutored high school juniors and seniors who'd never heard of Pearl Harbor, couldn't do basic math (like multiplication), couldn't identify the parts of a sentence, and could barely read.

Meanwhile, back in the Real World....

 

[Norman Alexander]

Yet, liberals here howled and mocked when some Republicans questioned the value of public education a few months ago. The Republicans' point is that it is long past time that we rethink our entire approach to K-12 education. They weren't saying that we should not educate our kids. They were saying that public schools are clearly failing to do this far too often.

As someone who has mentored and tutored many teenagers, I completely agree. I've tutored high school juniors and seniors who'd never heard of Pearl Harbor, couldn't do basic math (like multiplication), couldn't identify the parts of a sentence, and could barely read.

Did they go to a private school for their education? Such as advocated for by many on the right as a replacement for public education?

If not, you are suggesting there should be MORE investment in public education, not less. So more of these unfortunates like those you mentored can get their "three R's" (which is a slightly amusing aside because the third "R" is "'rithmetic" which is a word spelled wrong ).

Or you could not exacerbate the problem created by voting for the right-leaning people who want to make education harder to get, so you don't have to complain about their results.

 

[Norman Alexander]

They've both finished high school, so I am not sure what that comment about the future means.

Our 12 year old is doing an apprenticeship with a top field applications engineer at Renesas Corporation in microprocessor engineering, using their suite of micro-controller products.

He's already been accepted at the University but his scholarship will depend on his SAT score. His mentor at Renesas seems to think he should just keep working on his portfolio of work product, the school isn't as important.


Our 11 year old contracts for $100/hour on our heavy equipment. His summer season is over now so he is running our fully equipped 50 x 24 shop. He negotiates by the job. He's replacing a Subaru engine right now for $3,000. The engine was $500, it has 30k miles on it. He pockets the rest.

He owns a boom truck, a car, and has 19.5 ounces of gold in his safety deposit box. He hasn't even reached puberty yet. Neither has.

Perhaps it's you who needs to learn to count. I expect those long Alaskan days make the years seem to take forever.

 

[Armitage72]

"three R's" (which is a slightly amusing aside because the third "R" is "'rithmetic" which is a word spelled wrong ).

Next you're going to say that rithmetic doesn't consist of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and gazintas.
Two gazinta eight four times.
Three gazinta nine three times.
Four gazinta twenty five times.

 

[Planigale]

"three R's" (which is a slightly amusing aside because the third "R" is "'rithmetic" which is a word spelled wrong ).

More to the point it is 'riting' that is spelt wrong, whether you have a rithmetic or many rithmetics is the difference between rithmetic and math(s).

 

[8enotto]

México made a law of sorts no student shall be failed, or expelled for performance reasons. As a result the group leaving HS starting this year could possibly contain the least qualified applicants to every job in history.

Even students that missed tons of classroom time or neglected to take exams get pushed through.

On paper it hides a fail of semi educated working parents failing to get kids to do any homeschooling done.
Several of the kids in my direct family " benefit " from this as they go on to take minimum wage jobs for life. My son stayed in private school and wasn't allowed to slack. He hates us now. He won't in ten years.

 

[Lithrael]

I just still can’t figure out why it seems so impossible to just try having more teachers and smaller class sizes. Whenever I look at a school staff budget it looks like if they get any more money after taking care of straight up building maintanence it goes to more admin positions and I don’t really understand how those help the situation. When I was a kid class sizes already seemed too big to help any individuals and it doesn’t seem like that has improved. Or did they try that and I missed it?

 

[Crossbow]

The largest decline in math in the history of this assessment, in fact.


https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/24/american-test-scores-schools-00063067

We've been watching closely, and it is no mystery to us. Right now the big push is DEI - Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.

We read the minutes of their meetings and it is amazing how every subject, every student activity, every syllabus and bus trip is being reviewed to make sure the agenda saturates every minute of the school's time.

It used to be the three R's.

Another big win for homeschool. Our 12 year old is taking the SAT on December 2.

Excuse me, but this sort of news should not be a surprise.

After all, for the last two to three years, many schools have been closed due to the Pandemic and the education system, as well as quite a few other systems, became rather problematic (to say the least).

Therefore, one should not find it surprising to see that math scores and/or reading scores had a substantial downturn during this time period of upheaval.

 

[Startz]

About 2 percent of school spending is for "General Administration" https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d21/tables/dt21_236.30.asp?current=yes. Not sure if that includes school principals or not.

What is odd is that the national pupil teacher ratio is about 16:1. There aren't a whole lot of classes with only 16 students though. I'm not sure where the discrepancy comes from. (Obviously some part is due to small special ed classes, but I don't think that accounts for very much of the difference.)

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Perhaps it's you who needs to learn to count. I expect those long Alaskan days make the years seem to take forever.

We have two sons. One is 12. One is 11. That's pretty clear from the context too. One is pursuing microprocessor engineering and the other is running our heavy equipment along with operating the shop.

You can go back years on this forum and follow posts on them. They were both reading fluently by age 2. By kindergarten age the first son was in 5th grade already and the district school system would not let him in at grade level. So we just kept going.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Excuse me, but this sort of news should not be a surprise.

After all, for the last two to three years, many schools have been closed due to the Pandemic and the education system, as well as quite a few other systems, became rather problematic (to say the least).

Therefore, one should not find it surprising to see that math scores and/or reading scores had a substantial downturn during this time period of upheaval.

The one constant in my State is that almost nobody but homeschoolers are paying attention. It's incredible, our state has finished last place over-all on the last two national tests in a row.

You would think that should be a big concern, and playing a significant factor in political races, news, etc. But it isn't.

Ten years ago there were 120 students in the local school. Now it is 33. Population has increased, so it is proportionately a far larger decline.

Three schools have closed in town too. Everyone is homeschooling. It's a silent revolution.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

STEM is the exact opposite of DEI so it must be a dirty word.

Who cares whether students actually learn anything as long as we can keep fully grown teenagers off the streets?

We're mystified how it is that nobody seems to care.

They can't even find members for our local PTA anymore, and the only thing they did in the past was run a spook house and candy giveaway on Halloween. They played no roll in academics and now play no role at all.

They actually hired a principal for a K-8 school that has only 33 students. I would think the first order of business would be to find out why enrollment is only roughly 27% of a decade ago when population has increased.

Among the people who homeschool, we all follow the test scores and the academic curricula. That's why we homeschool.

But it has gotten harder to see what they are doing. It used to be that you could pull all their curricula off the internet. Spelling sets, math, reading materials, etc.

But now it is like some kind of top secret data. You need a student or parent of an enrolled student who has registration access to provide you with the materials.

 

[Norman Alexander]

We have two sons. One is 12. One is 11. That's pretty clear from the context too. One is pursuing microprocessor engineering and the other is running our heavy equipment along with operating the shop.

You can go back years on this forum and follow posts on them. They were both reading fluently by age 2. By kindergarten age the first son was in 5th grade already and the district school system would not let him in at grade level. So we just kept going.

Have they ever been allowed to be kids? Will you allow them to be teenagers in a year or so?

 

[arthwollipot]

The "three Rs" was always intended to be ironic.

 

[Norman Alexander]

We're mystified how it is that nobody seems to care.

They can't even find members for our local PTA anymore, and the only thing they did in the past was run a spook house and candy giveaway on Halloween. They played no roll in academics and now play no role at all.

They actually hired a principal for a K-8 school that has only 33 students. I would think the first order of business would be to find out why enrollment is only roughly 27% of a decade ago when population has increased.

Among the people who homeschool, we all follow the test scores and the academic curricula. That's why we homeschool.

But it has gotten harder to see what they are doing. It used to be that you could pull all their curricula off the internet. Spelling sets, math, reading materials, etc.

But now it is like some kind of top secret data. You need a student or parent of an enrolled student who has registration access to provide you with the materials.

1) Example being set by people like Sarah Palin, getting rich and famous even though they are as dumb and low as walrus poop, and just as rancid.

2) Lack of investment (actually, reduction in investment) in schools and education by GOP governments, at state and federal level. No money spent.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

1) Example being set by people like Sarah Palin, getting rich and famous even though they are as dumb and low as walrus poop, and just as rancid.

2) Lack of investment (actually, reduction in investment) in schools and education by GOP governments, at state and federal level. No money spent.

They were spending $33k per student operating cost last time I checked.

We get zero funding. People like us are deciding against lavishly funded schools and for schools that are not only completely unfunded, but you can't have your spouse in the work force making money if she is teaching the children.

So the swing for us is on the order of a hundred thousand dollars difference: giving up the $66k in funded school, and giving up a job to stay home and educate.

That's a pretty strong statement.

Covid did not affect our school in any way. Other than I lost a lot of money in my construction business because they killed the tourist industry and I was building tourist accommodations.

 

[Startz]

According to the most recent data in https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d21/tables/dt21_236.75.asp?current=yes, Alaska spent $20,000 per student. The data is a little out of date, so the amount is probably little higher now. (Also, many states had a spending surge with Covid money, but that is a one-time, temporary thing.)

 

[Norman Alexander]

They were spending $33k per student operating cost last time I checked.

Who is "they"? I'm going to assume it is the Alaskan government, but please correct me.

We get zero funding. People like us are deciding against lavishly funded schools and for schools that are not only completely unfunded, but you can't have your spouse in the work force making money if she is teaching the children. So the swing for us is on the order of a hundred thousand dollars difference: giving up the $66k in funded school, and giving up a job to stay home and educate.

That's a pretty strong statement.

Since that $66K was funded from your taxation, you are actually financing other kids' education. Which is the dreaded socialism you abhore.

Covid did not affect our school in any way. Other than I lost a lot of money in my construction business because they killed the tourist industry and I was building tourist accommodations.

They don't build anything else in Alaska?

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

According to the most recent data in https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d21/tables/dt21_236.75.asp?current=yes, Alaska spent $20,000 per student. The data is a little out of date, so the amount is probably little higher now. (Also, many states had a spending surge with Covid money, but that is a one-time, temporary thing.)

You can look up school by school funding on the state site. The rural schools like ours spend WAY more per pupil.

I see that this last academic year it was down. To $29k per student.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Who is "they"? I'm going to assume it is the Alaskan government, but please correct me.

Since that $66K was funded from your taxation, you are actually financing other kids' education. Which is the dreaded socialism you abhore.

The school is "they".

You seem like such a nice fellow.

Half my property tax funds the schools. I have no problem with that.

Very odd that you assume so much. I am also not a republican, I figure you made that assumption too since you seem to have a false dichotomy world you live in.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Have they ever been allowed to be kids? Will you allow them to be teenagers in a year or so?

They're exactly what they want to be. They are completely self-directed now and have been for a long time.

They let us know daily how much they love their lives. It's something we did not expect in terms of a homeschool benefit - how much gratitude they would have.

We keep hearing how hard it is at age 2, 3, 4, etc. and it's just never happened. It has been wonderful.

They've also been giving invited presentations to schools, the biggest one was over 100 students, teachers, and administrators.

That one was 93 power point slides. They got a standing ovation, and the kids asked some pretty hard questions of their own teachers and admins afterwards. Namely "why can't we do that?"

 

[Norman Alexander]

They're exactly what they want to be. They are completely self-directed now and have been for a long time.

They let us know daily how much they love their lives. It's something we did not expect in terms of a homeschool benefit - how much gratitude they would have.

We keep hearing how hard it is at age 2, 3, 4, etc. and it's just never happened. It has been wonderful.

How long have they been living in the Alaskan tundra? All their lives? Or are they grateful just not to have to go to school each day...

They've also been giving invited presentations to schools, the biggest one was over 100 students, teachers, and administrators.

That one was 93 power point slides. They got a standing ovation, and the kids asked some pretty hard questions of their own teachers and admins afterwards. Namely "why can't we do that?"

Wow! 93 powerpoint slides! That sounds convincing. Or obsessive. So all these kids want to be genius microprocessor engineers and auto mechanics and skip school?

 

[Brainster]

I just still can’t figure out why it seems so impossible to just try having more teachers and smaller class sizes. Whenever I look at a school staff budget it looks like if they get any more money after taking care of straight up building maintanence it goes to more admin positions and I don’t really understand how those help the situation. When I was a kid class sizes already seemed too big to help any individuals and it doesn’t seem like that has improved. Or did they try that and I missed it?

The problem is that a lot of the admin positions are mandated by law and/or required to receive federal or state funding. A friend of mine who was a schools superintendent told me that she did not see any real need to hire staff psychologists for each of her K-5 schools, but she was required to.

I recently went back to my old hometown and wanted to look at the school I went to. I was impressed by the new building in the front until I realized it was the new administration building; the classroom buildings behind it had not changed in 60 years. When I went there, there was a principal, a vice-principal, a nurse and maybe 2 secretaries; this building looked like it must hold 20-30 people. And this was a K-4 school, not even junior high.

 

[Robin]

I think people are reading too much into the fact that academic performance tanked during the pandemic.

My kids' school performance went haywire during that time, but they both still scraped into a university place suggesting that they weren't alone.

 

[Crossbow]

I think people are reading too much into the fact that academic performance tanked during the pandemic.

My kids' school performance went haywire during that time, but they both still scraped into a university place suggesting that they weren't alone.

Seconded!

I have had much the same experience.

My grand-daughter had a straight A average before the pandemic,
she had a C average during the pandemic, and
now she has a straight A average post-pandemic.

 

[psionl0]

My grand-daughter had a straight A average before the pandemic,
she had a C average during the pandemic, and
now she has a straight A average post-pandemic.

The pandemic is a red herring. This is about whether a switch from STEM to DEI has been beneficiary or if it is dumbing down education. "No child left behind" seems to be a euphemism for "No child gets ahead".

 

[Norman Alexander]

The pandemic is a red herring. This is about whether a switch from STEM to DEI has been beneficiary or if it is dumbing down education. "No child left behind" seems to be a euphemism for "No child gets ahead".

Might also mean "every child gets ahead". And STEM and DEI are not mutually exclusive.

 

[psionl0]

Might also mean "every child gets ahead".

And STEM and DEI are not mutually exclusive.

And how do you incorporate "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" into a maths lesson?

 

[Norman Alexander]

And how do you incorporate "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" into a maths lesson?

By not assuming girls and gays are stupid at maths and don't need it. By helping students for whom English is a struggle to understand the concepts by being able to explain them in better ways. This is what teachers are trained to do - teach every student.

Oh, unless you were being sarcastic. Were you being sarcastic? Because if you were then I missed it.

 

[marting]

Here's a link to the study highlights.
https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/highlights/ltt/2022/

Reading and mathematics scores decline during COVID-19 pandemic

Declines were least among the 90th percentile at 1% and greatest at the 10th percentile at about 6%. Both in math and reading. Not surprising. The highest achievers likely have more home resources.

 

[psionl0]

By not assuming girls and gays are stupid at maths and don't need it. By helping students for whom English is a struggle to understand the concepts by being able to explain them in better ways. This is what teachers are trained to do - teach every student.

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[Norman Alexander]

That doesn't answer my question.

Because you assume that STEM, the teaching of science, technology, English and mathematics, is mutually exclusive and incompatible with DEI, being aware of student diversity, equality and inclusion. So I did answer your question, just not in the way you desired. Because you misunderstood what these concepts mean.

 

[psionl0]

Because you assume that STEM, the teaching of science, technology, English and mathematics, is mutually exclusive and incompatible with DEI, being aware of student diversity, equality and inclusion. So I did answer your question, just not in the way you desired. Because you misunderstood what these concepts mean.

You clearly don't know what DEI is nor how it can be incorporated into a maths lesson.