MA in Magic and Occult Sciences

[Graham2001]

As announced earlier this year the Britsh University of Exeter is starting up a course in 'Magic and Occult Sciences' and why, well the penultimate statement in the course summary explains it quite clearly...

By housing this program in the Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies, we place the Arabo-Islamic cultural heritage back where it belongs in the centre of these studies and in the history of the “West.” Decolonisation, the exploration of alternative epistemologies, feminism, and anti-racism are at the core of this programme.

https://blogs.exeter.ac.uk/magic/2023/06/27/ma-in-magic-and-occult-sciences/


Given the role the Islamic world played in preserving and explanding upon the Greco-Roman discoveries that ultimately led to the scientific revolution I find this kind of sentiment profoundly disturbing.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

You deserve a response for posting this. But as a 'loony lefty' I look at this and think WTF.? Utterly valueless.

 

[Spektator]

Pftt. I have a doctorate in Magic from Worthags University, and a diploma to prove it. You'd know it's real if you saw it because it's invisible.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I read that thing twice and am still unclear: are they studying this as history, as in the history of belief in the occult? Because that is a legitimate historical subject, studying what people in the past believed and what they did because of those beliefs, and how remnants of those beliefs live on.

Or is it a study of magic as if it were a real thing? Because that is silly.

It's the difference between a course on studying religions, and a course preaching those religions.

 

[theprestige]

"By housing this program in the Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies, we place the Arabo-Islamic cultural heritage back where it belongs in the centre of these studies and in the history of the “West.” Decolonisation, the exploration of alternative epistemologies, feminism, and anti-racism are at the core of this programme."

Last time I checked, Islamic Arabs were huge into colonization, indifferent to outright hostile to alternative epistemologies, literally the worst when it comes to feminism, and notorious for their ethnic bigotry.

I can imagine the study and practice of magical thinking will fit right in with the rest of the IAIS curriculum.

 

[theprestige]

I read that thing twice and am still unclear: are they studying this as history, as in the history of belief in the occult? Because that is a legitimate historical subject, studying what people in the past believed and what they did because of those beliefs, and how remnants of those beliefs live on.

Or is it a study of magic as if it were a real thing? Because that is silly.

It's the difference between a course on studying religions, and a course preaching those religions.

Best I can tell, it's a study of magical thinking as a valid epistemological strategy. With Islamic culture as an role model.

But then they say that Islamic culture is also a role model for feminism. So who knows what the **** they're actually on about. Maybe they themselves don't even know.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Perhaps it was AI-generated text. That seems to frequently result in nonsensical jabbering.

 

[arthwollipot]

It won't last long. I expect it'll be quietly dropped from the curriculum in a semester or two.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I wanted to study the Occult, but the study materials were hidden too well.

 

[The Atheist]

You can get a degree in homeopathy or a doctorate in chiropractic.

At least someone getting a degree in occult and magic isn't likely to kill or paralyse anyone.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

As announced earlier this year the Britsh University of Exeter is starting up a course in 'Magic and Occult Sciences' and why, well the penultimate statement in the course summary explains it quite clearly...


https://blogs.exeter.ac.uk/magic/2023/06/27/ma-in-magic-and-occult-sciences/


Given the role the Islamic world played in preserving and explanding upon the Greco-Roman discoveries that ultimately led to the scientific revolution I find this kind of sentiment profoundly disturbing.

Having finally read the link, it makes more sense than perhaps I expected from the bit you quoted, which seems to be wearisome boilerplate cultural sensitivity reassurance stuff.

 

[Darat]

Having finally read the link, it makes more sense than perhaps I expected from the bit you quoted, which seems to be wearisome boilerplate cultural sensitivity reassurance stuff.

That was my view as well.

 

[zooterkin]

Yes, from the description it's hard to be sure whether the degree is studying about magical beliefs (the sort of thing Chris French and Richard Wiseman do) or actually practising them. I'd hope it was the former, but the part about the drama department being involved does worry me slightly when it says students have the option "to employ performative and practice-based methodologies", which sounds to me as though they would actually be practising magical rituals.

 

[zooterkin]

You can get a degree in homeopathy or a doctorate in chiropractic.

Slightly to my surprise, you seem to be right about chiropractic, even in the UK, though, thankfully, I couldn't find a degree in homoeopathy on offer.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I read that thing twice and am still unclear: are they studying this as history, as in the history of belief in the occult? Because that is a legitimate historical subject, studying what people in the past believed and what they did because of those beliefs, and how remnants of those beliefs live on.

Or is it a study of magic as if it were a real thing? Because that is silly.

It's the difference between a course on studying religions, and a course preaching those religions.

Seems quite clear that this is the former and not the latter, but that won't stop the reactionaries from taking a cheap shot.

Thus, the University of Exeter’s MA in Magic and Occult Science allows you to explore your specific interest within the long and diverse history of esotericism, witchcraft, ritual magic, occult sciences, divination, and related topics.

https://blogs.exeter.ac.uk/magic/2023/06/27/ma-in-magic-and-occult-sciences/

The anthropological and historical value of studying the common trope of magic, which appears through many cultures throughout history, is obvious. Hell, with the way modern societies are going down the tubes with magical thinking (Qanon, alt-med, etc), it's more relevant than ever.

 

[ahhell]

IDK, the description still seems a bit unclear to me but it seems more likely legit study of the culture and history of magic rather than teaching magic.

 

[Darat]

IDK, the description still seems a bit unclear to me but it seems more likely legit study of the culture and history of magic rather than teaching magic.

Sounds as if as part of the learning you can if you want to take a more practical approach reenact some of the ceremonies you are learning about. I can see how that might help you better understand some aspects of such ceremonies.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Sounds as if as part of the learning you can if you want to take a more practical approach reenact some of the ceremonies you are learning about. I can see how that might help you better understand some aspects of such ceremonies.

In the same way a course on religions might take field trips to different religious services.

I wonder how hands-on they get? The Romans and their divination via bird-entrails springs to mind. I'd wager a few fluffy, let's-embrace-other-cultures types might draw the line once they're issued an apron, a knife, and a cage of birds!

 

[theprestige]

My money is still on a veneer of academic legitimacy over magical thinking practices. A course for people who think science is just another social construct, and that epistemology can be approached through other, "traditional" means.

"People will take your wiccan altar more seriously, once you show them this diploma that means you totally studied the history and practices of all the cultures that understood the world just fine, before they got colonized by the white man's so-called science."

That's what I think is going on.

 

[Brainster]

Sounds quite a bit like they aren't talking much skepticism. Here's a couple of the PhD students' dissertations:

Barbara Dunn:
Thesis: ‘Astrology is higher and nobler than medicine and every physician must be an astrologer’: The Astrological Figure and the ‘Prognostical part of Physick’ c. 1580-1700.

Anna Milon:
Thesis: The Horned God as Environmental Figure in Fantasy Fiction and Live Action Role Play.

Sarah Scaife: (The South, West and Wales Doctoral Training Partnership AHRC funded PhD Researcher):
Research Project: Medicines of uncertainty: in a more-than-human world, how might polyvocal, practice-based performance methods reveal novel ways to articulate and attend to spells of illness?

 

[Darat]

Sounds quite a bit like they aren't talking much skepticism. Here's a couple of the PhD students' dissertations:

How do those extracts support your claim?

 

[zooterkin]

Sounds quite a bit like they aren't talking much skepticism. Here's a couple of the PhD students' dissertations:

What are their conclusions?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

nvm

 

[Brainster]

How do those extracts support your claim?

Barbara Dunn:

I subsequently undertook independent research into classical, Arabic and mediaeval astrological knowledge/practice, whilst pursuing a career as a freelance astrological consultant/columnist for UK/European publications. Prior to joining Exeter University I was employed by the Sunday Mirror. In 2007 I was assisted by a grant from the Urania Trust for writing Horary Astrology Re-Examined: The Possibility or Impossibility of the Matter Propounded, published in 2009.

So she wrote the astrology column for a bunch of newspapers.

Sarah Scaife says she lives in a "more than human world".

Lucy Hilliar:

Three leading Adepts are case studies; Annie Horniman, Florence Farr and Moina Mathers. For these women their magical selves had more personal significance than their marital status. In these women, concepts of ‘The High Priestess’, ‘the Divine Feminine’ and the ‘Scarlet Woman’ may be perceived. Expanding on the work of Mary K. Greer, this paper will prove that marital status, financial independence and sexuality impacted on these women’s magical and mundane experiences in negative and positive ways.

Really not seeing a lot of skepticism on display there. YRMV.

 

[theprestige]

It's definitely consistent with my prediction.

 

[TragicMonkey]

It's definitely consistent with my prediction.

Yes, it was all very clearly spelled out in the stars.

 

[theprestige]

Yes, it was all very clearly spelled out in the stars.

And also in the published texts. I assure you my methods of clairvoyance are entirely mundane, and mediated by nothing more than the four fundamental forces of the Standard Model.

 

[TragicMonkey]

And also in the published texts. I assure you my methods of clairvoyance are entirely mundane, and mediated by nothing more than the four fundamental forces of the Standard Model.

Yes, the four spiritual forces that flow through the aetherical leylines! You can read all about it in my doctoral dissertation The Minotaur's Balls: Towards a Semiotic Convergence of Mythopoeticism in Eclectic Transformative Paradigms In Early Christian Alchemy soon to be published by Marvel Comics! It will include a coupon for a half-price jumbo shrimp entree from Grabby's! "If it crawls on the ocean floor, you can eat it at Grabby's!"

 

[arthwollipot]

Anna Milon:
Thesis: The Horned God as Environmental Figure in Fantasy Fiction and Live Action Role Play.

I don't see a problem with this.

 

[Puppycow]

I read that thing twice and am still unclear: are they studying this as history, as in the history of belief in the occult? Because that is a legitimate historical subject, studying what people in the past believed and what they did because of those beliefs, and how remnants of those beliefs live on.

Or is it a study of magic as if it were a real thing? Because that is silly.

It's the difference between a course on studying religions, and a course preaching those religions.

Sounds to me like it's sort of up to the student to decide.

Might be some interesting source material for an aspiring writer of the Fantasy genre.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Sounds to me like it's sort of up to the student to decide.

Might be some interesting source material for an aspiring writer of the Fantasy genre.

Or to psychology students covertly observing their classmates.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Sounds to me like it's sort of up to the student to decide.

Might be some interesting source material for an aspiring writer of the Fantasy genre.

Seems like the kind of thing academia is pretty good at sorting out itself. Funding and publication is a competitive process.

Good scholarship will get published in more reputable journals and lead to more funding or career advancement or prestige while dubious scholarship may get published in pay-to-play publications of poor reputation and lead to a career dead end.

 

[theprestige]

I don't see a problem with this.

That's because you haven't thought it through. Imagine being the professor who has to listen to a student talk about their D&D character for two hours, because it's their master's thesis.

 

[theprestige]

Seems like the kind of thing academia is pretty good at sorting out itself. Funding and publication is a competitive process.

Good scholarship will get published in more reputable journals and lead to more funding or career advancement or prestige while dubious scholarship may get published in pay-to-play publications of poor reputation and lead to a career dead end.

Professorship at a university for the study and practice of magical thinking seems like a career dead end to me. And modern history is clear that there is a large demographic of people who are happy to pay mediocre schools for useless degrees. Academia pretty good at sorting itself out, but not everything sorts to the top.

 

[TragicMonkey]

That's because you haven't thought it through. Imagine being the professor who has to listen to a student talk about their D&D character for two hours, because it's their master's thesis.

What's the salary? It doesn't sound like a pleasant job, but if the pay is sufficient it could be endured. I'd rather do that than work in retail again.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

What's the salary? It doesn't sound like a pleasant job, but if the pay is sufficient it could be endured. I'd rather do that than work in retail again.

Generally speaking, academia jobs are in extreme demand. Adjuncts in a variety of fields, including precious STEM, are doing far worse for next to zero pay for just the slim chance of getting tenure track position.

 

[Thermal]

It's definitely consistent with my prediction.

Sounds like you could CLEP the degree.

Also, chiming in that this is a bull **** degree for those who want letters after their names without being in a legitimate discipline.

 

[theprestige]

Sounds like you could CLEP the degree.

Also, chiming in that this is a bull **** degree for those who want letters after their names without being in a legitimate discipline.

I'd go so far as to say it's a bull **** degree for a specific kind of student whose magical thinking practices aren't getting enough validation, even from a typical liberal arts college.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'd go so far as to say it's a bull **** degree for a specific kind of student whose magical thinking practices aren't getting enough validation, even from a typical liberal arts college.

Education is a business, you make money by offering the consumer what they want. Not all schools can literally afford to be academically rigorous.

 

[Thermal]

Education is a business, you make money by offering the consumer what they want. Not all schools can literally afford to be academically rigorous.

I have an accredited Doctorate around here somewhere in I think Metaphysics that I used to win a bet. Of course, the esteemed academic institution kind of owned the accredition mill, but that didn't change the color of the cash I won.