Split Thread henryco's new paper

[henryco]

Of course people and concrete near the explosions were pulverized just in the same way. The Huge explosions were witnessed by many many people which had to be far away enough or protected by the screening effect of several upper floors as certainly was the survivors of stairwell B who reported noise (which does not mean absence of explosion) and wind.

Again and looking at the photo posted by Sam.I.Am the question is : where are the 90 floors that should have pancaked and accumulated over and around these core columns near stairwell B ? This is just crazy!

Let me add that thermobarics for instance have a much lower pressure peak than conventionnal high energy explosives and yet are more destructive, because longer, especially in confined areas.

 

[leftysergeant]

How do you know wish video has the correct sound ? :

The opne that does not contain the vboice of Michael Hezarkhani saying "Oh! My God!" or the several screaming women who appear to be standing in one place around a stationary microphone. The one that does show an all-male grouip of people hauling ass and one voice saying one word _ "RUN." That is the real one. And you will notice in that that there are no sounds of demolition charges. The voice of Michael Hezarkhani was added later, along with the fake demolition charges. His voice was taken from the video he shot from Battery Park, about a mile away, as the second plane hit. How many times must I repeat this? Your example has both screaming women and Michael Hezarkhani recorded on the sound track. Yours is BOGUS, FALSE INFORMATION, HOG WASH, BS. Do you get where I am going now? Hezarkhani was not within line of sight when the towers fell.

 

[leftysergeant]

Let me add that thermobarics for instance have a much lower pressure peak than conventionnal high energy explosives and yet are more destructive, because longer, especially in confined areas.

And I thought you could not make a more absurd post than you had already!

There is no possibility that a thermobaric charge was used to drop the towers, and I would have reason to doubt your qualifications as an engineer of ANY kind if you continue to insist that it is possible.

It would have, indeed, taken out all the glass in lower Manhattan ABOVE the level to which the dust cloud rose after the collapse. We do not see this. All the facing windows that broke were less than ten floors up in most buildings. You are riding the Fail Boat to hell.

A thermobaric explosion or two DID occur in at least the south tower, one in the freight elevator in the basement (the first explosion Willie R experienced) and in the express elevator from the lobby to the observation deck. Based upon oral histories, this would be the second explosion that Willie experienced, and the one that John Schroeder experienced as he entered the lobby with the first crew in (from right across the street.) It was from JET FUEL.

 

[Dave Rogers]

And I thought you could not make a more absurd post than you had already!

There is no possibility that a thermobaric charge was used to drop the towers, and I would have reason to doubt your qualifications as an engineer of ANY kind if you continue to insist that it is possible.

Thermobarics rank alongside pyroclastic flows as a classic "I don't know a thing about it but I've read Jim Hoffman's website" indicator. Steven Jones came up with thermite in the unsuccessful attempt to find something that could cut steel columns without making an enormous bang, then proceeded to nanothermite in the ultimate fail attempt of coming up with something that couldn't cut the columns but would still go bang. Hoffman's thermobaric idea beat him to the fail by a considerable margin, though; even less ability to cut steel, even more of a bang.

Dave

 

[leftysergeant]

Actually, WE own thermobarics, but only in re the explosions in the basement.

 

[Furcifer]

The core and the exterior did not collapse first, the floor system did. At the very least 3 stories ahead of the collapse front. They had to. Otherwise the walls would have been pulled inwards. That didn't happen.

 

[Newtons Bit]

The core and the exterior did not collapse first, the floor system did. At the very least 3 stories ahead of the collapse front. They had to. Otherwise the walls would have been pulled inwards. That didn't happen.

I think you meant the walls wouldn't have been pulled inwards. Cuz they most certainly were pulled in.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I think you meant the walls wouldn't have been pulled inwards. Cuz they most certainly were pulled in.

Prior to collapse, yes, but I think 3bodyproblem meant during the collapse. If the core had been melted first the way bill smith fantasises, then the perimeter columns might well have collapsed inwards; it's a bit tricky to say for certain, given that his/her/its scenario is so unrealistic as to be utterly absurd.

Dave

 

[Furcifer]

Prior to collapse, yes, but I think 3bodyproblem meant during the collapse. If the core had been melted first the way bill smith fantasises, then the perimeter columns might well have collapsed inwards; it's a bit tricky to say for certain, given that his/her/its scenario is so unrealistic as to be utterly absurd.

Dave

Yah this ^. I was humoring this idea that the core collapsed first during the collapse. It's hard to say what would have happened but I imagine the exterior would have been pulled in. The sill plates probably wouldn't have been sheared off either.

The idea is truly absurd. All the evidence indicates otherwise.

 

[240-185]

How do you know wish video has the correct sound ? :
the one wish agrees hundreds of testimonies of huge explosions or the other one ?

Aaaah, I was waiting for such a goofy reply like this since a long time.

Where do we know?
First, your sample of your video has a stereo sound. In 2001, reporters' cameras were filming in mono. But let's assume they recorded in stereo mode.

Let's record the audio of your video :

Now let's have a look at the extract in the red rectangle:

Then, let's copy the audio of the white rectangle, and let's put it under another explosion, same extract:

Now, let's play the extract in the blue rectangle: http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/fakebooms.mp3

You didn't notice anything? That's right, it's the same exact sample of an explosive noise, and explosions can't have the exact same noise. That's why your video has no value.

 

[Justin39640]

Thermobarics rank alongside pyroclastic flows as a classic "I don't know a thing about it but I've read Jim Hoffman's website" indicator. Steven Jones came up with thermite in the unsuccessful attempt to find something that could cut steel columns without making an enormous bang, then proceeded to nanothermite in the ultimate fail attempt of coming up with something that couldn't cut the columns but would still go bang. Hoffman's thermobaric idea beat him to the fail by a considerable margin, though; even less ability to cut steel, even more of a bang.

Dave

Wouldn't the signs of use of a thermobaric weapon on some victims be obvious?

I could have sworn I read an account of when the Russians used them in Chechnya. A young woman said she was hiding in her basement and when she came out after the attack her neighbors were all lying about dead or dying with their lungs inside out.

That might have been some woo but I read a lot of places that collapsed lungs, embolisms, etc would be the "telltale" signs. Any reports from the ME or hospitals of these sorts of injuries, Tom, or are you just making this stuff up as you go along?

 

[Audible Click]

Aaaah, I was waiting for such a goofy reply like this since a long time.

Where do we know?
First, your sample of your video has a stereo sound. In 2001, reporters' cameras were filming in mono. But let's assume they recorded in stereo mode.

Let's record the audio of your video :
[qimg]http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/VIDEO1.png[/qimg]

Now let's have a look at the extract in the red rectangle:
[qimg]http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/VIDEO2.png[/qimg]

Then, let's copy the audio of the white rectangle, and let's put it under another explosion, same extract:
[qimg]http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/VIDEO3.png[/qimg]

Now, let's play the extract in the blue rectangle: http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/fakebooms.mp3

You didn't notice anything? That's right, it's the same exact sample of an explosive noise, and explosions can't have the exact same noise. That's why your video has no value.

That was very well done, thanks. Why do these truthers always drag out this video? It's been debunked to death and it certainly doesn't help their "cause".

 

[bill smith]

no way how the core (BTW the most resistant part) could collapse in advance without blowing all the windows and even if it could the air could escape above: the conditions for hermiticity are obviously not satisfied. Again look at the north tower collapse at t=7s: this does not even look like a squib, entire exterior floors are blown out!



It has to be 160km/h much lower the level of the collapse front.


Massive collective hallucinations on 9/11 :
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/oralhistories/explosions.html
Over insane witnesses:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2A8VMg_B64

Just in case you didn't see this one Henri

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ4dVo5QgYg Firemen's Testimony- Study

 

[bill smith]

That was very well done, thanks. Why do these truthers always drag out this video? It's been debunked to death and it certainly doesn't help their "cause".

Having 500 debunkers say ''No, it's not true' is not the same s actually debunking anything Click.

 

[bill smith]

Prior to collapse, yes, but I think 3bodyproblem meant during the collapse. If the core had been melted first the way bill smith fantasises, then the perimeter columns might well have collapsed inwards; it's a bit tricky to say for certain, given that his/her/its scenario is so unrealistic as to be utterly absurd.

Dave

Uh-uh Dave. I say only 50% or so of the core columns were entirely melted in a fast sequence from bottom to top with the molten steel dropping down into the basemants. FOS of three or greater for the core columns- remember? That would amount to 12-15,000 tons of molten steel bubbling in the basements where it would take more than three months to cool.

 

[Audible Click]

Having 500 debunkers say ''No, it's not true' is not the same s actually debunking anything Click.

Well, Smith, did you take a look at post 130? If you did then please enlighten us as to why you think this is not evidence of the altered video.

 

[bill smith]

For an unknown reason, i was not informed that my post was published on Jref until yesterday monday 18th. I did not received the messages sent to me before. I will start by answering as soon as possible Dr Greening explanations on the 911 forum.

I will never publish in a peer-reviewer journal, not because i'm too innovative for them but because its a feodal system completely under control of various lobbies and i dont want to waste my time.

Frederic Henry-Couannier

I became very suspicious of Steven Jones after he gave the lecture in Boston in December 2007 about the nanothermite chips. I couldn't understand why he was taking so long to send the samples out to be checked independently somewhere really credible like Princeton.

I thought that would be our final undeniable proof.

But when I really thought about it I realised what would have actually happened.

Somebody in the Whitehouse would have lifted a phone and placed a call to Princeton. 'Hello George, what can I do for you today' There is no way in hell that StevenJones could have risked that. Princeton would have found no chips come what may and that would have been that. The same goes for all other establishment bodies. So Steve did brillintly to do it as he did.

Heiwa has had remarkable problems getting published in the JEM despite having had his discussion document accepted for publication almost a year ago- just as you would have in any of the mainstream journals or peer review boards.

 

[bill smith]

Aaaah, I was waiting for such a goofy reply like this since a long time.

Where do we know?
First, your sample of your video has a stereo sound. In 2001, reporters' cameras were filming in mono. But let's assume they recorded in stereo mode.

Let's record the audio of your video :
[qimg]http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/VIDEO1.png[/qimg]

Now let's have a look at the extract in the red rectangle:
[qimg]http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/VIDEO2.png[/qimg]

Then, let's copy the audio of the white rectangle, and let's put it under another explosion, same extract:
[qimg]http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/VIDEO3.png[/qimg]

Now, let's play the extract in the blue rectangle: http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/fakebooms.mp3

You didn't notice anything? That's right, it's the same exact sample of an explosive noise, and explosions can't have the exact same noise. That's why your video has no value.

I read post 30 not 130 Click lol. Anyway maybe 240-185 wants to do the same analysis with these two clips. A comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsoWbX6hCYk&NR=1 Authentic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1LdQ6DGhpo Fake

 

[leftysergeant]

I read post 30 not 130 Click lol. Anyway maybe 240-185 wants to do the same analysis with these two clips. A comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsoWbX6hCYk&NR=1 Authentic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1LdQ6DGhpo Fake

That's bass ackwards. The first clip that you call authentic includes Michael Hezarkhani and the screaming women. The second is actually the opriginal, with only the voice of a real male fire fighter who is obviously running and telling everyone else to run.

DERRRRRR.....

 

[grandmastershek]

Having 500 debunkers say ''No, it's not true' is not the same s actually debunking anything Click.

Right its only when you get he same number as A&E's 4 twoof that it proves anything.

 

[240-185]

I read post 30 not 130 Click lol. Anyway maybe 240-185 wants to do the same analysis with these two clips. A comparison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsoWbX6hCYk&NR=1 Authentic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1LdQ6DGhpo Fake

I already did an analysis of the explosions in the first video in #130.
The second video doesn't show any explosion. Moreover, it is published by a truther. So you call "fake" a material posted by one of your mates. How ironic.

This is the first and last time I answer to bill while he's in quoted form.

 

[bill smith]

I already did an analysis of the explosions in the first video in #130.
The second video doesn't show any explosion. Moreover, it is published by a truther. So you call "fake" a material posted by one of your mates. How ironic.

This is the first and last time I answer to bill while he's in quoted form.

Oh well. I guess I can live with that. Anyway back to business.

As I've said before people are listening less and less to debunker rubbish and are starting more and more to use their own logic and senses.

So on that note I recommend for any reader to listen to the two short videos above and using their own best judgement assess in which video the audio has been tampered with.

I say that the clean and full audio in the video marked 'authentic' has been clearly and obviously degraded and degenerated in the video marked 'fake'. This 'fake' with the explosions removed is the one the government say is the true audio.

 

[BigAl]

Oh well. I guess I can live with that. Anyway back to business.

Dodge much?

You've been shown wrong one more time.

What topic are you going to switch to now?

 

[Furcifer]

I say that the clean and full audio in the video marked 'authentic' has been clearly and obviously degraded and degenerated in the video marked 'fake'. This 'fake' with the explosions removed is the one the government say is the true audio.

All right, I'm ashamed to say it took me all day but I finally figure it out. bill's one of those government agents, the disinfo agents we've all been accused of being at one time or another.

Obviously providing solid evidence and fact isn't doing any good. They decided the best way to debunk the conspiracy it to present it in such a ridiculous way not even the craziest tin foil hat wearing nutter believes it.

Cue bill smith, with his generic "every man" nic name. He"s bill smith Average Guy. Pull his strings and out come the most inane theories associated with the conspiracy theory ever contrived.

It's brilliant. bill there is no doubt in my mind now. I know who you're working for. While it's nice to have you working with us, I must admit I'm a little concerned the government has gone to such lengths as employing you for 9/11 counter intelligence.

I hope this doesn't blow your cover, but in light of "Mr. and Mrs Smith" I'm sure you can admit your particular nic name is not very "undercover". I hope your socks are in better order. Toodles.

 

[bill smith]

All right, I'm ashamed to say it took me all day but I finally figure it out. bill's one of those government agents, the disinfo agents we've all been accused of being at one time or another.

Obviously providing solid evidence and fact isn't doing any good. They decided the best way to debunk the conspiracy it to present it in such a ridiculous way not even the craziest tin foil hat wearing nutter believes it.

Cue bill smith, with his generic "every man" nic name. He"s bill smith Average Guy. Pull his strings and out come the most inane theories associated with the conspiracy theory ever contrived.

It's brilliant. bill there is no doubt in my mind now. I know who you're working for. While it's nice to have you working with us, I must admit I'm a little concerned the government has gone to such lengths as employing you for 9/11 counter intelligence.

I hope this doesn't blow your cover, but in light of "Mr. and Mrs Smith" I'm sure you can admit your particular nic name is not very "undercover". I hope your socks are in better order. Toodles.

I would say 'arcane' not 'inane'' as you do but there you are. lol

 

[leftysergeant]

I would say 'arcane' not 'inane'' as you do but there you are. lol

I was actyually thinking "insane."

Have you ever heard Michael Hezarkhani's voice? How do you explain his standing near where those fire fighters were when the tower failed?

 

[bill smith]

I was actyually thinking "insane."

Have you ever heard Michael Hezarkhani's voice? How do you explain his standing near where those fire fighters were when the tower failed?

At 48 seconds hear the guy say Oh my God a plane just crashed into the building. I can not believe it ' Listen to it a few times one after the other. . It just gets more and more surreal with every listening. Something else. I've heard this guy's voice elsewhere in the 9/11 videos. I will find it again at some point. Is that the guy you are talking about Sarge ?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7PncGkdFPI 5-6

 

[leftysergeant]

At 48 seconds hear the guy say Oh my God a plane just crashed into the building. I can not believe it ' Listen to it a few times one after the other. . It just gets more surreal with every listening. Something else. I've heard this guy's voice elsewhere in the 9/11 videos. I will find it again at some point. Is that the guy you are talking about Sarge ?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7PncGkdFPI 5-6

That's him. He made his video in Battery Park, from the upper deck of a ferry. What was he doing repeating his same words inside a secured area under the south tower when it collapsed? Why did he bring all those screaming frightened women with him?

Do you see why I question the sanity of anyone who thinks that the one with his voice is the real collapse video?

 

[bill smith]

That's him. He made his video in Battery Park, from the upper deck of a ferry. What was he doing repeating his same words inside a secured area under the south tower when it collapsed? Why did he bring all those screaming frightened women with him?

Do you see why I question the sanity of anyone who thinks that the one with his voice is the real collapse video?

Remember the woman who said that the FDNY told her they were going to bring down WTC7 ? Well I found her voice elsewhere in the 9/11 videos too. Interesting isn't it ?

 

[leftysergeant]

Remember the woman who said that the FDNY told her they were going to bring down WTC7 ? Well I found her voice elsewhere in the 9/11 videos too. Interesting isn't it ?

She's a deluded tool of the Organization. whoop

You still have not explained why you still believe your own crap about the video of the collapse with Hezarkhani's voice on it is the real deal when he clearly made that recording an hour earlier and a mile or so away.

 

[bill smith]

She's a deluded tool of the Organization. whoop

You still have not explained why you still believe your own crap about the video of the collapse with Hezarkhani's voice on it is the real deal when he clearly made that recording an hour earlier and a mile or so away.

..

I guess you are talking about the 'authentic' video ? Can you give me a time stamp to look at ? How many seconds in ?

 

[240-185]

OK, I'll do another analysis of the faked audio. But not the way leftysergeant expected

Here's the end of the faked audio:

Now, here's the end of the audio to be heard with ears: http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/fakebooms2.mp3

I copied and pasted the data in the white rectangle twice. The second time by amplifying this sample. We can notice that this voice doesn't say anything intelligible and that it had been poorly cut ("Ah yoo k'-" plus half of the "eh" phoneme, looks like "Are you OK?", but this should have been asked _after_ the complete collapse, not _during_ this collapse). Another evidence that this audio is forged.

Sorry for that quick analysis, but it's 12AM in France right now, so I'm a bit dizzy

 

[bill smith]

OK, I'll do another analysis of the faked audio. But not the way leftysergeant expected

Here's the end of the faked audio:

[qimg]http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/VIDEO4.png[/qimg]

Now, here's the end of the audio to be heard with ears: http://gilou82.free.fr/debunk/fakebooms2.mp3

I copied and pasted the data in the white rectangle twice. The second time by amplifying this sample. We can notice that this voice doesn't say anything intelligible and that it had been poorly cut ("Ah yoo k'-" plus half of the "eh" phoneme, looks like "Are you OK?", but this should have been asked _after_ the complete collapse, not _during_ this collapse). Another evidence that this audio is forged.

Sorry for that quick analysis, but it's 12AM in France right now, so I'm a bit dizzy

Edited by Locknar: 

Edited, breach of Membership Agreement.

 

[leftysergeant]

I say that the clean and full audio in the video marked 'authentic' has been clearly and obviously degraded and degenerated in the video marked 'fake'. This 'fake' with the explosions removed is the one the government say is the true audio.

How many times do I have to ask you how you think Hezarkhani's voice ogt on the one you think is real?

And did you notice how, at the end of the clip, the camera gets dropped and the picture discombobulates?

One the one that you call fake, you hear just a bunch of squaking consistant with an audio recording device being damaged. In your sorry excuse for a real clip, we hear Hazarkhani and the screamers.

Are you trying to convince me that you are even less intelligent than I took you to be?

 

[bill smith]

How many times do I have to ask you how you think Hezarkhani's voice ogt on the one you think is real?

And did you notice how, at the end of the clip, the camera gets dropped and the picture discombobulates?

One the one that you call fake, you hear just a bunch of squaking consistant with an audio recording device being damaged. In your sorry excuse for a real clip, we hear Hazarkhani and the screamers.

Are you trying to convince me that you are even less intelligent than I took you to be?

You would have to give me a time stamp on the short video marked 'authentic' above where I can hear his voice. So far I have not heard it. At how many seconds in will I hear his voice ?

 

[leftysergeant]

Hkhani's voice is edited in at about 0:15. His voice is then cut off, and we here the bit that 240-180 analysed.Then we hear the screamers again.

The editing was to remove Hezarkhani saying "That plane just hit the building." Problem, for the forgers, was that they did not totally edit out the real audio.

 

[bill smith]

Hkhani's voice is edited in at about 0:15. His voice is then cut off, and we here the bit that 240-180 analysed.Then we hear the screamers again.

The editing was to remove Hezarkhani saying "That plane just hit the building." Problem, for the forgers, was that they did not totally edit out the real audio.

In my opinion those voices are not even nearly similar.

Why don't you ask 240 to cut them out and put them side-by-side while adjusting the volumes to match.

 

[leftysergeant]

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for rule 12.

 

[bill smith]

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for response to modded post.

 

[BigAl]

You can say that but the obvious thing to do is get 240 to put the samples side-by-side so the readers can judge for themselves Sarge.

We know the explosions are fake because the same explosions don't appear on all the other cameras in use that morning.

BOOM ​

There is a long list of other reasons why we know the sounds are fake. You've been told what they are in the past.