Cont: Dear Users… (A thread for Sysadmin, Technical Support, and Help Desk people) Part 11

Oh, people at work are going to be pissed this week when they try to do what turns out to be a MASSIVE Windows 11 update just before they shut down and go home. It must have taken 90 minutes to download and install and restart. I started sometime after 12:30 am and its now after 02:00. I didn't trust my computer to do everything by itself -- how often have I let something run and then a popup box comes up, halting the process until I respond?
The What's In The Update said something about streamlining File Explorer, which only means they're going to change something that has been standard for years.
Support folks, expect some calls!
 
alfaniner said:
Oh, people at work are going to be pissed this week when they try to do what turns out to be a MASSIVE Windows 11 update just before they shut down and go home. It must have taken 90 minutes to download and install and restart. I started sometime after 12:30 am and its now after 02:00. I didn't trust my computer to do everything by itself -- how often have I let something run and then a popup box comes up, halting the process until I respond?
The What's In The Update said something about streamlining File Explorer, which only means they're going to change something that has been standard for years.
Support folks, expect some calls!
Click to expand...
Microsoft way:

Do you want to install? Yes.
Do you really want to install? Yes.
Do you really, really, want to install? Yes.

Install starts...

Fifteen minutes later:

Do you really, really, really want to install?
 
novaphile said:
Note that they use the same model for printing to a network device.

Do you want to print?
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It's frequently infuriated me that the only thing Windows does without confirmation is shut down. The number of times I've accidentally clicked on that...
 
TragicMonkey said:
It's frequently infuriated me that the only thing Windows does without confirmation is shut down. The number of times I've accidentally clicked on that...
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But just try logging out of Outlook or Hotmail. Click the X, and you get a message "Hang on while we log you out", and then it takes several seconds. What the hell are they doing? It's not like they have to save statuses of all running programs or anything. (Or maybe... they are???)
Just close the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ window.
 
alfaniner said:
But just try logging out of Outlook or Hotmail. Click the X, and you get a message "Hang on while we log you out", and then it takes several seconds. What the hell are they doing? It's not like they have to save statuses of all running programs or anything. (Or maybe... they are???)
Just close the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ window.
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Microsoft Teams is the worst for this. Possibly just the program itself, possibly because of how my employer configured it, and probably because it has its claws in so much else. But I click "Sign Out" and nothing happens for a very long time. Clicking "Sign Out" again means the window will close in about two minutes...and then reopen again immediately to the "click your account name to reopen" (i.e. useless) screen. Then I have to close that one, too.

And it never ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ remembers I want the dark setting. I have to change it every. single. time. All the "solutions" offered by Microsoft are "clear the cache". Well, dumbass Microsoft, ain't nobody using Teams unless it's their employer making them, and employers don't let all the employees have admin access to ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ clear the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ cache. Fix the damn setting so it sticks! Argh.
 
I was forced to make a video call with my medical provider on Friday. I begged just to make it a phone call but they insisted it be video. I knew I had lots of problems before with it regardless of what app I was using. It took 45 ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ minutes, including a call to tech support. The end result, which should have been given in the preparatory email (which I didn't get, and probably didn't specify), was that I had to use Google Chrome (my default is Firefox), and I had to be logged in to Google Chrome. So we only had about 10 minutes on the meeting, which I still think could have been covered in a phone call anyway.
 
alfaniner said:
I was forced to make a video call with my medical provider on Friday. I begged just to make it a phone call but they insisted it be video.
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I suspect that's because a video call can be billed as a "virtual visit" whereas a phone call can't be billed as much, if at all.

(Yes, I'm a cynic. But I also do a lot of work involving healthcare "visit types" which drive billing...)


eta: interesting sidenote: video visits kicked off a lot of confusion starting in 2020 with this simple question: if the patient is in one state, and the provider is across the state line in another state...in which state is the medicine being practiced? Does the provider need a license in both states? The state they're in? Or the state the patient is in? My city is right next to a state border, and we have a lot of doctors who live in the other state but work in this one. But if they're working virtually from their house...? The pandemic fished up a lot of unanticipated issues!
 
TragicMonkey said:
I suspect that's because a video call can be billed as a "virtual visit" whereas a phone call can't be billed as much, if at all.

(Yes, I'm a cynic. But I also do a lot of work involving healthcare "visit types" which drive billing...)


eta: interesting sidenote: video visits kicked off a lot of confusion starting in 2020 with this simple question: if the patient is in one state, and the provider is across the state line in another state...in which state is the medicine being practiced? Does the provider need a license in both states? The state they're in? Or the state the patient is in? My city is right next to a state border, and we have a lot of doctors who live in the other state but work in this one. But if they're working virtually from their house...? The pandemic fished up a lot of unanticipated issues!
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Wouldn't it be easier to have a consistent set of rules for all states nation-wide? Just asking.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Wouldn't it be easier to have a consistent set of rules for all states nation-wide? Just asking.
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I may have been unclear. Medical licenses are per-state. This was simple enough before, because the doctor and patient were in the same place, and it was the state where the doctor has their license. But with the invention of video visits it became possible for the doctor, patient, or both to be located in states other than the one where the doctor has a license. This was a problem right away, but it was the pandemic that really kicked off a vast rise in virtual visits and made it more than just a curious question that crops up rarely.

It's not a question of states agreeing on "rules", it'd be much more than that: it would require states to accept each other's medical licensures. Which would be a much bigger deal than honoring each other's drivers' licenses.

I actually don't know what the answer is to the problem. My employer decided to play it safe and only set up virtual visits where the provider and the patient are both calling from a state where the provider has a license. (The patient actually has to attest to their current location and everything.)

It is fun to imagine the possible scenarios. For instance, astronauts in the ISS. If one had a virtual visit with a doctor, where would the doctor have to be licensed? Where the doctor is calling from? Florida if the call is routed through Cape Canaveral? Whichever state or country the ISS was over at the moment the call started?
 
TragicMonkey said:
It's frequently infuriated me that the only thing Windows does without confirmation is shut down. The number of times I've accidentally clicked on that...
Click to expand...
You can change what the Power buttons do. I have mine to Sleep when I hit it. The only way to Shut Down is to use Start/Power/ShutDown.
 
alfaniner said:
You can change what the Power buttons do. I have mine to Sleep when I hit it. The only way to Shut Down is to use Start/Power/ShutDown.
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The habit of putting the power key in the top right corner lost Dell a large notebook order due to the annoyance of the testers.
 
I've mentioned it before, but my work laptop is an HP and the power button is so discreet it took me minutes to find it the first time. It's a very thin but long button nested in a little recess above the keys. It's lit up when the power is on, but when the power is off and it's not lit up it doesn't really look like a button at all. Very confusing to turn on for the first time. But at least it's not where I could press it accidentally.
 
"I don't see the problem" he says, when I point out that the change he wants will 1) not actually do what he wants it to do, 2) actually do several things he definitely doesn't want it to do, and 3) cause the process in question to bloat well past its permitted time limit -- it would go from running in between 3 and 7 seconds to running between 6 and 14 hours. The maximum time permitted is 20 minutes.
 
TragicMonkey said:
"I don't see the problem" he says, when I point out that the change he wants will 1) not actually do what he wants it to do, 2) actually do several things he definitely doesn't want it to do, and 3) cause the process in question to bloat well past its permitted time limit -- it would go from running in between 3 and 7 seconds to running between 6 and 14 hours. The maximum time permitted is 20 minutes.
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I assume this is all well documented? With your detailed and vehement advice that the change doesn't occur? And, where appropriate, with recordings of your conversations with him?
 
catsmate said:
I assume this is all well documented? With your detailed and vehement advice that the change doesn't occur? And, where appropriate, with recordings of your conversations with him?
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Indeed. I phrased it all very carefully (much more professional than the ranting I do here) and left aaaaaall the decision-making up to other parties.

I'm sort of hoping they'll chose the course I politely suggested "would be unwise"; it's technically fraud if they do that one, so if they tell me to do it I can "express concern" about it to someone higher up their chain. That should trigger some fun and excitement.
 
I took a call from a user the other day, she couldn't describe the problem in any other way than, "I can't print, something's coming up and won't let me print." No further description than that. Took an inordinate amount of time to walk her through getting the remote support app downloaded, half a dozen times she couldn't find the downward-pointing arrow in the upper right corner of her browser, until finally, hey, it just showed up! With like 8 instances of a Bomgar download! Just... just pick one. The top one, sure. No, really, click on it. I can't click it for you, not yet, anyway. Then another struggle to get her to click "Accept" and "Ok." Viewing her screen, asked her to walk through what she's trying to do. She opens up her email, clicks the Print icon at the top, and the print dialog pops up. "See? It won't let me print." The big, blue "Print" button was just... sitting there? Asked her to try clicking that one. Oh wow, it printed! "It's all just so different, I don't know what these mean!"

I then ended the session, and she asks what the box that popped up saying "Thank you for using (my company) support!" meant, and whether she has to click "Ok" again. I wish I could say that this user rarely calls, but that would be a lie.
 
Yalius said:
I took a call from a user the other day, she couldn't describe the problem in any other way than, "I can't print, something's coming up and won't let me print." No further description than that. Took an inordinate amount of time to walk her through getting the remote support app downloaded, half a dozen times she couldn't find the downward-pointing arrow in the upper right corner of her browser, until finally, hey, it just showed up! With like 8 instances of a Bomgar download! Just... just pick one. The top one, sure. No, really, click on it. I can't click it for you, not yet, anyway. Then another struggle to get her to click "Accept" and "Ok." Viewing her screen, asked her to walk through what she's trying to do. She opens up her email, clicks the Print icon at the top, and the print dialog pops up. "See? It won't let me print." The big, blue "Print" button was just... sitting there? Asked her to try clicking that one. Oh wow, it printed! "It's all just so different, I don't know what these mean!"

I then ended the session, and she asks what the box that popped up saying "Thank you for using (my company) support!" meant, and whether she has to click "Ok" again. I wish I could say that this user rarely calls, but that would be a lie.
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Needs an executive decision: Take the keys off her. She shouldn't be using a computer. Something else...anything else. But when she wastes more time and money than she does productive work then it's time for a review.
 
I have suddenly had my Dell INspiron bog down like crazy. Like, "only loading text boxes here and not actual avatars" at first slow. Or watching each character type itself several seconds after I've actually input it. It's not my wi-fi connection because anything I do locally has the same problem. Forget it with the graphics programs I'm trying to use. It's been a few days now and seems to be related to a Dell Firmware update I did on the 7th, as noted in a Reddit thread. But I'm not prepared to try to uninstall it and totally bork my system. I'm moving my graphics files (slowly!) to an older laptop so at least I can get something done with them.
I'm not sure how to fix this except to wait for Dell to do a patch or something.
 
Norman Alexander said:
There should be a selective uninstall option available for updates. And a rollback for firmware.
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I checked -- it says "nuh-uh!"
"Can't go back to previous version." I don't know that I'd want to risk it anyway, because last time I tried something like that it bollocksed-up everything. I did have the foresight to do a backup before doing that install, but while I could get my files, I have doubts about restoring a system.

And people wonder why I don't build my own box...
 
alfaniner said:
I checked -- it says "nuh-uh!"
"Can't go back to previous version." I don't know that I'd want to risk it anyway, because last time I tried something like that it bollocksed-up everything. I did have the foresight to do a backup before doing that install, but while I could get my files, I have doubts about restoring a system.

And people wonder why I don't build my own box...
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If its the firmware for the bios there might be a bios setting that has to be tweaked. Also maybe graphics drivers have to be updated for the new firmware.
 
alfaniner said:
I checked -- it says "nuh-uh!"
"Can't go back to previous version." I don't know that I'd want to risk it anyway, because last time I tried something like that it bollocksed-up everything. I did have the foresight to do a backup before doing that install, but while I could get my files, I have doubts about restoring a system.

And people wonder why I don't build my own box...
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Well, ◊◊◊◊. :cautious:
 
Well, someone suggested doing something with the battery, and this rings a bell of something I had to do before. The battery doesn't just slide out like on my previous models. I undid the bottom and cleared out the fan -- not too much schmutz in there this time. I didn't bother taking the battery out because I didn't want to mess with it any more in there. But I shut down and restarted on battery only, and for now it seems to have reset something where it appears to be back to normal, and plugged in. I normally keep it plugged in all the time but do allow the battery to run down a couple times a year because I thought that was good for it. Not sure about that, but no harm done, either.
 
alfaniner said:
Well, someone suggested doing something with the battery, and this rings a bell of something I had to do before. The battery doesn't just slide out like on my previous models. I undid the bottom and cleared out the fan -- not too much schmutz in there this time. I didn't bother taking the battery out because I didn't want to mess with it any more in there. But I shut down and restarted on battery only, and for now it seems to have reset something where it appears to be back to normal, and plugged in. I normally keep it plugged in all the time but do allow the battery to run down a couple times a year because I thought that was good for it. Not sure about that, but no harm done, either.
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Whew!
 
Weird - I did all that and plugged it back in, and the battery wasn't charging, staying at 3%. I did a shutdown and restart (plugged in) and it is charging now. Definitely some issue with the battery -- I seem to remember having a similar problem on my previous Dell. The lag I mentioned was bothering me so much I actually started looking for a new laptop. I instead be using this one for a while yet, but the next one ain't gonna be a Dell.
 
Spent the last day trying to track down whatever was generating intrusive ads on a Z Flip 3. No malware detected so fairly sure a rogue app. Went through pretty much everything, blocking notifications, blocking popups, then force stopping each app in turn (where possible).

Eventually found it, a bogus file manager under the name "File Explorer" which doesn't show up in Play Store, and notably when I did force stop, this app restarted about a minute or two later, and so did the ads. Persistence paid off this time.
 
commandlinegamer said:
Spent the last day trying to track down whatever was generating intrusive ads on a Z Flip 3. No malware detected so fairly sure a rogue app. Went through pretty much everything, blocking notifications, blocking popups, then force stopping each app in turn (where possible).

Eventually found it, a bogus file manager under the name "File Explorer" which doesn't show up in Play Store, and notably when I did force stop, this app restarted about a minute or two later, and so did the ads. Persistence paid off this time.
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Interesting. Any idea how the rogue app got installed? (For me, I don't do the Play Store, since it requires a Google account and I steadfastly refuse to add one to my phone. If it's not available on f-Droid or APKMirror, I'm not using it.)
 
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Blue Mountain said:
Interesting. Any idea how the rogue app got installed? (For me, I don't do the Play Store, since it requires a Google account and I steadfastly refuse to add one to my phone. If it's not available on f-Droid or APKMirror, I'm not using it.)
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Nope. Customer had been trying to (re)install some streaming app (Disney+, I think), but I didn't really have time to analyse in great detail.
 
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