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[Continuation] Brexit XII

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Darat said:
Oh dear - mind you we know that experts are useless anyway

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...an-research-funding-for-oxbridge-universities

Oxford and Cambridge universities, once given more than £130m a year in total by European research programmes, are now getting £1m annually between them​

ETA: Of course no one could have foreseen this: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...would-be-a-disaster-british-universities-warn
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Well, we'd apparently "had enough of experts" so now we'll be producing considerably fewer.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
Well, we'd apparently "had enough of experts" so now we'll be producing considerably fewer.
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To channel our long lost champions of Brexit, this is all the EU's fault.

The British public voted for a Brexit where the UK would keep all the benefits of being in the EU without any counter obligations and now the europeans are sabotaging this brilliant policy out of spite.
 
Oh noes the Daily Mail has provided a series of difficult questions for rejoiners

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columni...s-throw-EU-Rejoiner-corners-dinner-party.html

Last week, on the third anniversary of our departure from the EU, a survey found that some 57 per cent of Britons were now in favour of rejoining.

And little wonder! Those who we could once dismiss as ‘Remoaners’ have, in recent years, quietly morphed into something even more insidious: ‘Rejoiners.’ Every day, they tell us that Brexit has failed, defying the facts. And they think if they repeat this mantra often enough, people will believe it.
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Why would anyone not be able to see what an unmitigated success Brexit is*?


The questions, less Professor Tombs's commentary are below.

1) If we rejoined the EU, how much would Britain pay into its budget per year?

2) If free movement into the UK from the EU were to be restored, what would annual net migration be?

3) What proportion of the global economy, and of British trade, will the EU represent in 20 years?

4) What would be the effect on future trade of abandoning our new, closer ties with the growing Pacific region?

5) What would be the economic cost of joining the eurozone?

6) Will the UK rejoin the Common Fisheries Policy?

7) As we now have a Free Trade Agreement with the EU, what precisely would be the advantage of rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union?

8) Would Brussels lawmakers have priority over Parliament, and would the European Court of Justice be superior to British courts?

9) Would Rejoiners agree to the EU being in overall charge of our foreign and security policy?

10) Would Rejoiners commit to a referendum to approve the terms negotiated for a new relationship with the EU?


*Just like this prophetic article from 2016

https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
You think the US is not going to listen to its second most powerful political lobby, when millions of votes are potentially on the line. You really are wilfully blind, aren't you?
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Irish lobby is not that powerful any longer. It's not like it used to be. Irish have assimliated too well into the US.
 
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Lothian said:
I am a big supporter of the 6 counties in the North breaking away and uniting with their neighbour with whom they have far more in common. The distant powers in Westminster have not delivered for the people of Northumberland, Tyne & Wear, Durham, Cumbria, Lancashire and Yorkshire.
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North ve South divide in England goes back a long way: It was the hardcore of Catholic resistence to the Tudors taking the Church Of England into the Protestent camp. THe Pilgrimage of Grace off name for a major rebellion....was the greatest threat Henry VIII faced in his regime, and his Daugher Liz has a major crisis with the Northern Rebellion.
 
jimbob said:
Oh noes the Daily Mail has provided a series of difficult questions for rejoiners

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columni...s-throw-EU-Rejoiner-corners-dinner-party.html




Why would anyone not be able to see what an unmitigated success Brexit is*?


The questions, less Professor Tombs's commentary are below.

1) If we rejoined the EU, how much would Britain pay into its budget per year?

2) If free movement into the UK from the EU were to be restored, what would annual net migration be?

3) What proportion of the global economy, and of British trade, will the EU represent in 20 years?

4) What would be the effect on future trade of abandoning our new, closer ties with the growing Pacific region?

5) What would be the economic cost of joining the eurozone?

6) Will the UK rejoin the Common Fisheries Policy?

7) As we now have a Free Trade Agreement with the EU, what precisely would be the advantage of rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union?

8) Would Brussels lawmakers have priority over Parliament, and would the European Court of Justice be superior to British courts?

9) Would Rejoiners agree to the EU being in overall charge of our foreign and security policy?

10) Would Rejoiners commit to a referendum to approve the terms negotiated for a new relationship with the EU?


*Just like this prophetic article from 2016

https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/
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My answers:

1) Given what the tories are doing to the economy, the UK may even be a net beneficiary.

2) It was lower than it is now before brexit, because the UK needs a large pool of low paid, low skilled workers just to stand still.

3) The EUs proportion of world trade will be higher England's lower. That's what happens when you don't invest in your economy.

4) Nil. England's trade with the Pacific will never be more than a side gig. It's trade with the EU is what it needs.

5) Much smaller than the benefits of same.

6) Yeah. Stop asking stupid questions.

7) Ye don't have a free trade agreement. Ye have an agreement that, subject to the UK remaining in close regulatory alignment with the EU, allows for fewer and lesser trade barriers than say, Niue. Just because the UK lets in all and sundry without cheks, it doesn't then follow that that's a free trade agreement. It is, in fact, a potential WTO dispute.

8) In areas of pooled sovreignty, yes.

9) No, but given the shower running your country, the answer should be yes.

10) Would the brexiteers commit to enacting a constitution for the UK, which would allow for a proper footing to hold said referendum.
 
dudalb said:
Irish lobby is not that powerful any longer. It's not like it used to be. Irish have assimliated too well into the US.
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You think? The peace process was the one thing the republican party put the foot down kn Trump. Trust me, if the Irish lobby wasn't a big thing, our opliticians wouldn't be doing the St Patrick's Jamboree every March.
 
dudalb said:
North ve South divide in England goes back a long way: It was the hardcore of Catholic resistence to the Tudors taking the Church Of England into the Protestent camp. THe Pilgrimage of Grace off name for a major rebellion....was the greatest threat Henry VIII faced in his regime, and his Daugher Liz has a major crisis with the Northern Rebellion.
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We know.

And it goes back a lot further than that: Bill the Bastard has a lot to answer for; could take it back to the existence of the Saxon kingdoms...
 
Meanwhile Heseltine points out that it's not European regulations that are holding back businesses (he published 3000 whilst in Major's government and asked trade bodies if they were hampering trade. And that it's obvious why.

 
jimbob said:
Meanwhile Heseltine points out that it's not European regulations that are holding back businesses (he published 3000 whilst in Major's government and asked trade bodies if they were hampering trade. And that it's obvious why.

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From Hansard

My Lords, I am in favour of free and open discussion. I do not want the noble Lord silenced in any way: the Floor is his.

Well, here we are, another vacuum in the Brexit debate.

The essence, of course, is that, for all the empty generalisations, all the promises and all that new world, there was nothing there. This Bill demonstrates beyond peradventure that they did not know what they were doing. Six years on, they did not know what they were doing. They have now actually created a giant question mark over a whole realm of regulations that are the custodian that separates us from the law of the jungle. They are what defines a civilised society. At a time of economic stress, when we need desperately to increase the levels of investment in our economy, what have they provided? A giant question mark for anyone seeking to know whether to spend a penny piece in the United Kingdom economy. I beg noble Lords not to let this legislation leave this place unscathed.
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https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords...ribution-287FB0F2-3D85-493B-BD77-9D6CB70FD8F8
 
Carrot Flower King said:
We know.

And it goes back a lot further than that: Bill the Bastard has a lot to answer for; could take it back to the existence of the Saxon kingdoms...
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"Oh he's dirty and full of fleas
He has his girls by two and threes
GOd Bless that Bastard King of England"


Though I actually think the north/south in England predates Willy the Conqurer; I think that the Northern Part of England became pretty much a VIking Kingdom The Danelaw for a couple of hundred years has alot to do with it.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
Michelle Donelan to EU: Give into our ridiculous demands over the six counties protocol or we kill of UK science research in retaliation.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rope-research-michelle-donelan-uk-snub-brexit

Ok, I know she does not literally say this, but anybody who has sense will realise that this is the natural outcome of her threat.
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How many times is the EU going to have to say "ok, go ahead" to the UK when it threatens to shoot itself in the foot if it doesn't get it's way without giving anything in return?
 
Mojo said:
The Carlisle United Supporters Club and the Supporters Club of Carlisle United were both singing, but the United Supporters Club of Carlisle had lost his voice.
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I suppose I'd better point out that this was intended to be humorous, and that we took over 1,000 visiting supporters to Wimbledon yesterday.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
Michelle Donelan to EU: Give into our ridiculous demands over the six counties protocol or we kill of UK science research in retaliation.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rope-research-michelle-donelan-uk-snub-brexit

Ok, I know she does not literally say this, but anybody who has sense will realise that this is the natural outcome of her threat.
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You mischaracterise it slightly. The killing blow to UK science research has already been dealt. Michelle Donelan is threatening to not allow the EU to resuscitate it.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
The biggest outcome so far is Frosty the No-Man moaning about a "remoaner plot".
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I don't ever remember an instance before where politicians, up to PM, were calling a large proportion of the voting public by an insulting name like since Brexit, and it's all one way sfaik I've never heard a remain politician use terms like Brextremist or Brexitard.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
I don't ever remember an instance before where politicians, up to PM, were calling a large proportion of the voting public by an insulting name like since Brexit, and it's all one way sfaik I've never heard a remain politician use terms like Brextremist or Brexitard.
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When your grand strategy of "freeing the UK from the yoke of EU oppression" lies in tatters at your feet and the negative consequences that you waved away as Project Fear come to pass you have one of two options.

You can either accept that those critical voices were correct, that the Brexit you has envisaged is impossible and fundamentally change your approach or you can resort to name-calling.

The former requires a spine, fortitude, principles and the use of political capital, the latter is easy. It's hardly surprising which was chosen :mad:
 
In an interview with BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Tuesday, Sunak made a similar point, saying Northern Ireland now had “this very special position where it has access to the UK market, has access to the EU market, which makes it an incredibly attractive place to invest for businesses”.
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https://www.theguardian.com/politic...thern-ireland-access-uk-eu-markets-trade-deal

He actually said it twice. You would have thought that after the first time someone might have taken him aside and pointed out that this "prize" was what the whole UK had before Brexit.
 
Interesting analysis of where people claiming a UK state pension have gone since Brexit.

An extra 2,213 people claiming a UK pension have set down their roots in Poland since Britain officially left the EU on 31 Jan 2020, reveals our 2023 Pensioner Exodus Report.

Since you only need ten years of National Insurance contributions to get some UK state pension, the increase could be due to Polish nationals heading home after retiring from work in the UK. Or it could be that Poland has become a new hotspot for pensioners looking to enjoy their latter years.

Unsurprisingly, France remains a firm favourite among retirees with an extra 1,804 pensioners claiming a UK pension there since Brexit – only a 3% increase.

Meanwhile, Japan has seen a 24% increase, with an extra 1,310 people claiming a UK pension since Brexit Day. Thousands have also flocked to New Zealand (1,258) and Portugal (994) too.

A bit closer to home, the petite Isle of Man has seen a huge influx of UK pensioner expats, with numbers rocketing 567% since the Brexit vote on 23 June 2016.
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https://investingreviews.co.uk/blog...o-poland-since-brexit/#the-pensioner-hotspots


Worth clicking to view the full tables.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Rats leaving the sinking ship?

(Note that rats usually get a bad rap but are actually smart little critters who would have the sense to abandon a sinking ship.)
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Not to mention that rats haven't normally helped scupper the ship.
 
Russ Jones knocks it out the park
https://twitter-thread.com/t/1633226043027775491

RussInCheshire said:
Gonna start a festival. #Twatsonbury

I'll advertise how great it is. World-beating, in fact.

But there will be a 100 ft high wall around the 100 mile perimeter, and no gate.

No illegal entry. Or legal entry.

Then I'm gonna spend YEARS whining about the cost of security.��
The only way in will be to scale the wall, which is dangerous and illegal, and loads of people die, while giving all their money to the network of previously unheard-of "ladder gangs" that mysteriously sprung up when I built a massive wall.
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