Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[platonov]

The ABC site also is going about 99 to 1 against Italy. I really do love the fact that many people are pointing out that if it was about money, why was Rudy's DNA found on Meredith's purse and not Amanda's. They also are going to town on the fact that Nencini is willing to believe the criminal Rudy Guede about the money even though there is nothing to back him up. They are pointing out just how absurd this idea is pointing out Amanda's financial position and that Raffaele's family is very wealthy.

Things that make you go hmmmm.

I hope the NSA have a program in place to find that ****** lovin' comminist.



Things that remind you of a comment by a Russian politico in the 60's.

 

[acbytesla]

That's it. I'm officially starting my Italian boycott, and I won't be buying any more Italian stuff . . . Like, um, well . . . Fiats.

Does anyone buy Italian stuff other than food or glasses??...that's right. Luxotica of Italy makes pretty much frames for everybody. They have a monopoly on it that should be broken up..but for some reason it is not.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Milan was the center of activity

Does anyone buy Italian stuff other than food or glasses??...that's right. Luxotica of Italy makes pretty much frames for everybody. They have a monopoly on it that should be broken up..but for some reason it is not.

Back in the days of steel-frame bicycles, Italy was the premier country, although Japan began to nip at their heels in the 1980s. I once considered buying a Masi frame. Check out this craftsmanship.

 

[Bill Williams]

Mainly for Raffaele Sollecito's sake, this was reported as appearing in an Italian OpEd today....

“This morning an op-ed in La Stampa by Alessandro Perissinotto, a writer and teacher, pointed to Article 530 of the Italian Code of Criminal Procedures which concerns insufficient evidence. Perissinotto wrote ‘there is a boundary where you have to stop.’

Given the questionable to unreliable to non-existent evidence in the Kercher case, did Italian justice breach that “boundary”? Perissinotto seems to think so, writing this morning, ‘the impression of a conviction at all costs is strong.’ ”

It would be good to see Italians start to stand up against this judicial crappola. If Nencini is allowed to stand, then no one is safe in Italy.

 

[acbytesla]

Back in the days of steel-frame bicycles, Italy was the premier country, although Japan began to nip at their heels in the 1980s. I once considered buying a Masi frame. Check out this craftsmanship.

People even racers still ride steel bikes. I'll take my American made Richard Sachs bike any day. But I just remembered it does have Campagnola components. If you have $5000 USD you can buy a Richard Sachs frame too. http://www.richardsachs.com/site/

I also forgot, Italy does make some pretty good scooters.

 

[Desert Fox]

Does anyone buy Italian stuff other than food or glasses??...that's right. Luxotica of Italy makes pretty much frames for everybody. They have a monopoly on it that should be broken up..but for some reason it is not.

Not going to buy that Lamborghini I was saving for

 

[Bill Williams]

Here is today's La Stampa, about the Nencini motivations report.....

The conviction was the prelude to redemption, was the punishment after the crime; the lack of evidence was the suspicion that you do not scrollavi off. And if anyone insufficient evidence corresponded to a defeat of justice, for others it represented the highest moment, one in which justice itself accept their limitations, admits that he was able to go beyond a reasonable doubt: a justice without delusions of omnipotence. Today, although Article 530 of the Code of Criminal Procedure still refers to insufficient evidence, it seems that nobody is willing to acknowledge that there is a boundary on which you have to stop and the trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito proves it.

Convicted, then acquitted, then convicted again. And at every level of the process, the tests become more slender; you cling to a small trace of DNA of Amanda on a kitchen knife that she may have used to cut the throat of her friend or to cut onions.​

In March 2009, the house on Via della Pergola where the crime took place was visited by thieves who stole the mattress on which Meredith was murdered and this was possible because the prosecutor in Perugia, not to alter the crime scene (!), Had forbidden them to be affixed to the bars on the windows. But you go ahead anyway, citing the evanescence of any molecule, because the media pressure is too high and nobody wants to do an act of humility by confessing that the truth can also escape.​

This fellow seems to know about the second break-in through Filomena's window!!!

See...... http://www.lastampa.it/2014/01/31/cultura/opinioni/editoriali/una-condanna-a-ogni-costo-COBdUQ9hp7jeKsXlsOWVoO/pagina.html

 

[acbytesla]

Not going to buy that Lamborghini I was saving for

I was thinking about a Ferrari myself and of course maybe buying George Clooney's house on Lake Como.

 

[Grinder]

The black guy did it !!!

Well he did do it. He all but admitted the actual act and did admit being there during the murder and claims to have have tried to stop her bleeding.

Do you believe he had no involvement and was framed by the PLE?

 

[Poppy1016]

Here it is.... hoc processus.

Is that Latin for hocus pocus?

 

[RandyN]

Back in the days of steel-frame bicycles, Italy was the premier country, although Japan began to nip at their heels in the 1980s. I once considered buying a Masi frame. Check out this craftsmanship.

Violins! They once made wonderful violins in Italy. Guess I wont be buying that Stradivarius after all.

Anyhoo....now that the report is out I understand completely that AK and RS are guilty. They have to be. What else can explain all these judicial efforts? It was the poop after all. Miss Kercher was not the type to go for the sex stuff. Funny that it never occurs to this moron judge that it could be the reason she fought against that and ended up dead? Sure the only person supported by the facts as the killer, robber and rapist is Rudy Guede....the black guy. (probably assisted in his crime by Lumumba and his other black friend from the bar OZ ID or something like that...the only three black guys in all of Italy apparently)

The reporters here are stating that Knox was re-convicted on a number of points and one is always that she accused a black man. That cant be true. The court was forbidden from using that as evidence even if it was not a real accusation and was simply the cops making up a story and forcing her to sign.

These are the details one can use to judge the dishonesty of the Italian judicial process. These are scam artists. Idiot savants with emphasis on the idiot part.

Verbose justice. Talk nonsense until it seems like a certainty. Pound a few tables to create distraction while ones loads up the rabbit into the hat.

Pitiful corrupt country who once made a few token quality items. Those marble statues are quite nice. That Coliseum although in need of repair must have been quite nice. What did they do there again? These modern day people whose ancestors entertained themselves there. That leaning tower thing seems a little embarrassing though...no?

To hell with Italy and with Italians. If they are too much cowards or too stupid to understand what happened here or can simply ignore that then fine... put your citizen wrongly into a jail. Our United States citizen will remain safely free here in America. Hey Italy...vaffanculo!

Italians today have stood up and declared themselves to be stronzo!

Now lock up Sollecito you cowards!

 

[Bill Williams]

Nadeau at CNN wrote, "He wrote that some evidence, including a prison diary Knox wrote in the early days of her incarceration, was used [by the first appellate court] to support her innocence when it was 'convenient, but at the same time devalued when she incriminated herself.'" So Knox's diary is evidence, but the second memoriale is totally forgotten, and yet the Hellmann court is the one with an "absence of logic rigor?" And it is unclear to me what is supposedly incriminating in the diary. Nencini is a petty functionary, and he isn't even a very smart one.

So far for us English speakers it's just the news snippets.

I too wondered what Nencini was supposed to have meant by that Hellmann did not give enough weight to the incriminating stuff in Amanda's diary......

What incriminating stuff? Why are judges in Italy allowed to just make up stuff?

 

[proudfootz]

The DNA on a knife from the kitchen in she had been staying for the last 4 days exclusively and for a week before that consistently isn't really evidence of anything.

If one were to accept the DNA of Meredith as coming from the murder sans blood not withstanding, it would be more likely that it was used by someone else that cleaned his DNA off of it and left it for someone else to use.

The bigger question should be: why wasn't Raf's DNA on the knife?

I don't see how that's a 'bigger question' then why the victim's DNA is there.

 

[proudfootz]

Can you, then, summarize Patrizia Stefanoni's testing methods, including her reliance on Low-Copy Number results, which no other forensic lab in the world would rely on?

Apparently LCN DNA has been used in a number of legal cases.

Also, why is "DNA" per se incriminating, when non-blood DNA suggests contamination?

If it is not DNA from blood, it might be possible that the victim's DNA comes from other stuff people's throats are made of (skin, muscles, etc).

It's rather odd that Sollecito dreamed up a far-fetched story as to why the victim's DNA should be found on the blade...

Just to clarify, the victim's DNA was not found at "the pointy end", Stefanoni claimed to have found it in a grove in the blade, a grove that no one else can see.

It's part of the nature of many knives that the blade is pointier than the handle.

Nope, no grooves there.

No, wait a minute - what are those lines visible there?

http://truejustice.org/ee/images/perugia/frontpage105/10556.pdf

 

[Bill Williams]

I don't see how that's a 'bigger question' then why the victim's DNA is there.

Meredith's DNA was probably not there, simply because the groove in which it was supposedly found wasn't there. This is added to the fact that it was non-blood DNA suggests contamination anyways.

 

[Samson]

I don't see how that's a 'bigger question' then why the victim's DNA is there.

Try reading these posts.

4764
4770
4791

 

[proudfootz]

One of the reasons I do not think this thing was an intentional framing is the testimony of Stefanoni with regard to 36B.

Stefanoni readily admits the problems with it. It requires four tersts, does it not? And all four are destructive tests, meaning that you do not get what you tested back.

Add to this that there was only a sufficient sample size, so she claimed, to do one test. She had the choice of finding the composition of it, or who it belonged to.

It was perhaps the only sound decision she made, she decided to test to see who 36B belonged to. That test said it was Meredith's.

Yet the standard is to do a second confirmatory test, and obviously she could not do that.

And here's the kicker.... What was it? It was Meredith's but what of Meredith's was it? This is BEFORE even considering the "too low" issue.... or the missing data that other experts complained about.

The testing did not reveal it, because there was nothing more to test - not to mention, that no one else in the universe has ever seen the so-called-crevice in the knife which it was supposed to have hid to escape cleaning.

If THIS is the frame up, it is the most incompetent frame-up in the history of crime.

So, trying to solve a crime you can choose to test either who the material is from or what part of an unknown person it is from.

Seems like the obvious choice is to see whose DNA is on the blade.

"It was perhaps the only sound decision she made, she decided to test to see who 36B belonged to. That test said it was Meredith's."

Of course high resolution photographs of the blade reveal grooves any sighted person can see for themselves.

http://truejustice.org/ee/images/perugia/frontpage105/10556.pdf

 

[Bill Williams]

Apparently LCN DNA has been used in a number of legal cases.

....................and!? They are...... ??? You do realize, don't you, the the LCN Stefanoni dealt with gave "too low" for a result the first number of times she tried. The measurement she used was the lowest setting, which cannot distinguish between "something" and "nothing."

If it is not DNA from blood, it might be possible that the victim's DNA comes from other stuff people's throats are made of (skin, muscles, etc).

Let's review. That knife was picked at random from Raffaele's, in front of Raffaele, precisely because it looked like it had been scrubbed excessively clean. The act of cleaning, if you follow the claims made by police, will first and foremost take DNA off an object, and only then blood and blood products (which can be detected presumptively by luminol).

If DNA is found, then that means that it is less likely that blood was ever on that knife, because it is completely improbable that DNA would be left but blood cleaned off. We're not talking neck tissue here, we're talking the most small speck of DNA possible, that becomes destroyed when tested. It is almost impossible for all that neck-tissue to get on the knife, without blood getting on it, too. So there goes your theory.

It's rather odd that Sollecito dreamed up a far-fetched story as to why the victim's DNA should be found on the blade...

Raffaele had been told that Meredith's DNA had been found on the knife. They asked him to explain how it got on it. It never occurred to him that hte cops were lying to him about the protocols Stefanoni used - there was more than likely NOT Meredith's DNA there... so who is the liar?

It's part of the nature of many knives that the blade is pointier than the handle.

Good one.

[qimg]http://truejustice.org/ee/images/perugia/frontpage105/10556.pdf[/qimg]

Nope, no grooves there.

No, wait a minute - what are those lines visible there?

http://truejustice.org/ee/images/perugia/frontpage105/10556.pdf

Peter Quennell had better get those pics to the Italian Supreme Court because no less than the expert appointed by the judge at the preliminary hearing didn't see them....

Professor Cingolani, the expert witness
appointed by the GIP [judge of the preliminary hearing] for the incidente probatorio
[pre-trial taking of evidence], who was shown the knife, Exhibit 36, during this
hearing, it having been made available at the express request of the defence,
declared that he had not seen such scratches.​

Peter Quennell on the other hand will say anything to suggest Sollecito and Knox are guilty. Quite like Judge Nencini, who has substituted a completely NEW theory as to how this crime happened.

Tell me this - why did Knox bring that knife (exhibit 36) to the cottage from Raffaele's?

 

[anglolawyer]

Some time ago I read a quote from Mignini's closing remarks that was an equally bizarre explanation of what beyond a reasonable doubt was. I don't have a link handy, however.
ETA
Andrew Gumbel quoted Mignini, "Yes it’s true you need to find the defendants guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, as the high court has said, but the high court was merely codifying a principle that already existed in our jurisprudence […] It doesn’t mean you need to find the absolute truth, which is the province of God alone […] You need only be certain enough for the purposes of a trial. What does that mean? It means two things, essentially: that the reconstruction of the facts is based on logic, and that its elements are not in contradiction with each other."

Curatolo?

 

[Bill Williams]

Of course high resolution photographs of the blade reveal grooves any sighted person can see for themselves.

http://truejustice.org/ee/images/perugia/frontpage105/10556.pdf

The expert witness appointed by the preliminary hearing judge disagrees.