Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[icerat]

Sounds very Italian. I particularly like this bit

Investigators concluded that Claire used a knife from her own apartment to stab herself, picking a sharp blade that would not cause much pain, and hid the knife before dying.

I'm surprised she didn't successfully clean her own DNA from the knife first.

 

[Samson]

I'm surprised she didn't successfully clean her own DNA from the knife first.

Here is more to support discussion here

In support of this argument the prosecutor there would be blood stains and the trajectory of blows to the woman , the absence of signs from defense on the victim and the state of the place in which it was found lifeless the English woman .

There is a pattern.

Meredith Kercher
Sarah Scazzi
Claire Martin

A young woman dies, and the police eschew the obvious in pursuit of the ridiculous.

 

[Vibio]

A young woman dies, and the police eschew the obvious in pursuit of the ridiculous.

You know as much about the Claire Martin case as you do about the Kercher case.

Why don't you mention that despite what the parents claim, the girl was was suffering from post-partum depression and that she was under psychiatric care? Or that she confided in a friend that she wanted to kill herself? And that except for the wound that killed her, the rest were superficial?

 

[Vibio]

Sounds very Italian. I particularly like this bit

Investigators concluded that Claire used a knife from her own apartment to stab herself, picking a sharp blade that would not cause much pain, and hid the knife before dying.

And since you know nothing about your own justice system you might want to look over this.

And note especially the Hugues de la Plaza case.

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-suicides-might-murders.php

 

[Dan O.]

Also, they found a single trail of blood drops leading from the upstairs to the downstairs apartment, and I think 19 blood samples in the downstairs apartment, they attributed all to "cats blood". But they were able to retrieve 5 DNA profiles among those blood samples, and their machines only return human profiles (according to the site's analysis). Whose profile might it be? Anyone we might know? Aren't you at least curious?

Have you followed that trail? It is remarkably consistent with the behavior of cats that I have watched. The cat walking down the steps moves closer to the wall for better protection. It goes first to the door which doesn't open because the boys are away. It then goes back up the steps in the railing wall and jumps to the open window leaving a drip on the outside of the window frame. Then down to the bathroom floor where the trail continues inside.

Where was the human DNA found? Was it by chance anywhere that humans would normally shed DNA like in a bed, on a sofa or in a bathroom?

But there was no break-in downstairs, as Rudy could have used the keys he got from Meredith to enter without physically breaking-in by smashing a window. Get a change of fresh clothes from the guys downstairs, and be on his way. That's what I think actually happened.

Where did Rudy find the key and why did he return it?

 

[js202]

And since you know nothing about your own justice system you might want to look over this.

And note especially the Hugues de la Plaza case.

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-suicides-might-murders.php

As with the rest of your screeds on the US justice system, this post would be utterly useless and off-topic, even if Samson happened to be American.

In fact, I believe he has mentioned he is a New Zealander. Care to thrall us with your google research acumen on the abysmal state of Kiwi justice? I'm quite sure we all await with bated breath.

 

[Vibio]

As with the rest of your screeds on the US justice system, this post would be utterly useless and off-topic, even if Samson happened to be American.

Hilarious but quite typical: I cite a few ignored facts on the previously mentioned Claire Martin case, but for js202 they're utterly useless and off topic!

And sorry for pointing out similar cases in the US.

 

[Diocletus]

And since you know nothing about your own justice system you might want to look over this.

And note especially the Hugues de la Plaza case.

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-suicides-might-murders.php

LOL. It's just the same! Well, except for this part:

French investigators, however, didn't make requests. They made demands. And, in 2009, a federal judge — an . one — sided with them. The court ruled that all forensic evidence in the de la Plaza case must be packed up and forwarded to Paris. And, unlike the SFPD, French investigators went ahead and ran DNA tests (presumably, their techs didn't snort the evidence).

In Italy, the prosecution and police forces are allowed to suppress evidence and no one cares. So: 1) you'll never see investigators fully disclosing lab results as in this case, and 2) you'll never see media coverage critical of the police/prosecution, as you see in this case.

 

[Vibio]

LOL. It's just the same! Well, except for this part:



In Italy, the prosecution and police forces are allowed to suppress evidence and no one cares. So: 1) you'll never see investigators fully disclosing lab results as in this case, and 2) you'll never see media coverage critical of the police/prosecution, as you see in this case.

End result? It's a SUICIDE!

"you'll never see media coverage critical of the police/prosecution, as you see in this case."

????

LOL.

 

[Diocletus]

Have you followed that trail? It is remarkably consistent with the behavior of cats that I have watched. The cat walking down the steps moves closer to the wall for better protection. It goes first to the door which doesn't open because the boys are away. It then goes back up the steps in the railing wall and jumps to the open window leaving a drip on the outside of the window frame.

That's funny: cats act just like drunk people. They also act like a dripping-wet article of clothing that is being carried by someone.

Where was the human DNA found? Was it by chance anywhere that humans would normally shed DNA like in a bed, on a sofa or in a bathroom?

Why yes, those places and a lightswitch. Those are the only places the cops checked, since they weren't looking for cat DNA.

Where did Rudy find the key and why did he return it?

With Meredith's other keys that Rudy took and then threw away?

 

[MDDVS]

I don't understand the posision held by Vibio. So because the US justice is flawed it means Amanda Knox should pay for a crime she didn't commit? Is that the reasoning? She's a real person, not a sacrificial lamb to attone for USA crimes.

 

[Diocletus]

End result? It's a SUICIDE!

No . . . as far as I can tell, the case is a homicide and it's still open.

 

[Diocletus]

I don't understand the posision held by Vibio. So because the US justice is flawed it means Amanda Knox should pay for a crime she didn't commit? Is that the reasoning? She's a real person, not a sacrificial lamb to attone for USA crimes.

Here is the general pattern of thought:

1. The Italian justice system is just peachy.

2. People who live in countries where the cops also make mistake have no right to make critical comments about the wonderful Italian justice system.

3. If such people make critical comments about Italy in the context of a discussion of the Kercher case, then we will ignore those comments and deflect by pointing to similar mistakes in cases in such other person's country.

 

[Diocletus]

"you'll never see media coverage critical of the police/prosecution, as you see in this case."

????

LOL.

It's true. The Italian press laps up everything the prosecution says. There is a complete failure domestically to conduct a critical analysis of the case; instead, we know all about Foxy Knoxy's sex life. Yawn.

 

[Vibio]

The World According to Diocletus.

 

[Bill Williams]

"you'll never see media coverage critical of the police/prosecution, as you see in this case."

????

LOL.

It's true. The Italian press laps up everything the prosecution says. There is a complete failure domestically to conduct a critical analysis of the case; instead, we know all about Foxy Knoxy's sex life. Yawn.

Does Vibio have a timeline of the crime, when things happened on Nov 1? Does Vibio have an opinion on time of death, and the way gastric emptying factors in to that surmise?

Does Vibio agree with prosecutor Crini that the kitchen knife from Raffaele's is not a match for the bedsheet stain in Meredith's room? How does Vibio account for the fact that no one, not even first-prosecutor Mignini, even entertained that absurd notion?

I did not think Vibio would respond.

 

[Dan O.]

The police stated that the sex was consensual for the first few days.

This simply could be part of a standard ruse that the police use to draw out a suspect. They claim to have DNA evidence from the scene. There is no statute of limitations for Murder and even a minor infraction or even suspiscion could result in the suspects DNA being taken and matched. They also offer a pre-accepted plausible excuse for that DNA by saying that the sexual contact appears to be consensual and they might have met at a party the night before. The suspect can either keep silent and live the rest of their life in feer of being discovered or they can come forward with a tale to try and clear themselves.

 

[Grinder]

At 9pm, based on witness evidence, she was statistically extremely late for gastric emptying, so one argument would be latest time for commencement of GE is roughly the same as earliest TOD, or about 9pm.

Can you quote witness testimony as to when Meredith ate and what she ate?

Since there was no gastric emptying at TOD, doesn't this mean latest time for gastric emptying also means latest TOD?

Sure but there is no "latest GE time" for this type of meal. IIRC 200 minutes was the outlier time for one of those test meals. If she actually started eating at 6:30 that would make 9:50 the outlier time.

CD reported that the girls said she didn't feel well and ate later.

 

[js202]

Hilarious but quite typical: I cite a few ignored facts on the previously mentioned Claire Martin case, but for js202 they're utterly useless and off topic!

And sorry for pointing out similar cases in the US.

Either a poor save, or an utterly clueless post.

You cattily - your operative tone, correct? - replied to Samson that he knew nothing about his own justice system, assuming he was American. In fact he is not American, and your post was off-topic to the thread, under any circumstances.

Capisce? (Somehow, I doubt it...)

 

[Grinder]

Nice formulation. You're not sure he didn't. What does that mean? Do you think he did? That would be three people involved in this nothing burglary of a students' flat. Really? A driver (what did they need one for?) and an accomplice (for what?) and Rudy.

I agree about almost everything else except, for these cops, framing people they think are guilty is standard and doesn't require any change of gear when they realise they're not.

Well I think that is part of the attraction of this case. Koko was there that night as verified by phone pings if IIRC. He said he was there. He claimed he saw them and talked with Rudi. He was later convicted of drug dealing.

I have as much evidence Koko was the driver and involved as others have that the homicide police on duty immediately recognized Rudi's MO and set to frame the kids the first day. Maybe more.

Now the police "framing" them at a later time is something quite different. There is no doubt that they went the extra mile to make their case, which they failed at.