Merged Global Warming Discussion II: Heated Conversation

[Trakar]

Morbid curiosity while driving home from work, mostly.

What were you driving, and how many are in your car-pool?

"What are they ranting about today?"...listen for a few minutes...go back to music.

Unfortunately, the entertaining afternoon religious program that talked about things like the conspiracy between NASA, the ESA, and the Vatican to pass off demons as aliens, or how the world is going to end any day now, doesn't air any more.

Talk radio ought to come with a warning label at the least.

 

[Warmer1]

He also argued that the arctic ice levels aren't diminishing.

Remember, it's important to check facts. Just not his facts.

Arctic ice loss animation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGYEZ9H63zA

The largest ice calving event ever recorded - great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC3VTgIPoGU

The full story on the changes in the Arctic when you have time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6pFDu7lLV4

 

[a_unique_person]

Unfortunately, the entertaining afternoon religious program that talked about things like the conspiracy between NASA, the ESA, and the Vatican to pass off demons as aliens, or how the world is going to end any day now, doesn't air any more.

They've been hiding that from us?

 

[Armitage72]

They've been hiding that from us?

It's something that they claimed was going to happen some time in 2013. The Vatican & Co. were going to reveal the existence of and contact with a technologically and morally superior alien race. This race would then send an alien "messiah" to Earth and they would offer to solve all of our problems and usher in a new age of peace and prosperity.
Of course, this would all be a plot to establish a world government, world religion, Satanic domination of the world, etc.

http://www.exovaticana.com/

...but we seem to be getting off topic.

 

[Trakar]

It's something that they claimed was going to happen some time in 2013. The Vatican & Co. were going to reveal the existence of and contact with a technologically and morally superior alien race. This race would then send an alien "messiah" to Earth and they would offer to solve all of our problems and usher in a new age of peace and prosperity.
Of course, this would all be a plot to establish a world government, world religion, Satanic domination of the world, etc.

http://www.exovaticana.com/

...but we seem to be getting off topic.

Sounds like the perfect recipe for Serving Mankind.

 

[Corsair 115]

Sounds like the perfect recipe for Serving Mankind.

Well, I'm sure the Kanamits would agree!

 

[Warmer1]

reveal the existence of and contact with a technologically and morally superior alien race.

If you get involved in trying to help people understand climate change you would soon understand that it wouldn't take much for aliens to be technologically and morally superior to humans. Given the threat at hand I often wonder if climate change deniers live on the same planet

 

[Trakar]

If you get involved in trying to help people understand climate change you would soon understand that it wouldn't take much for aliens to be technologically and morally superior to humans. Given the threat at hand I often wonder if climate change deniers live on the same planet

Darwin awards all around. Homo sapiens sapiens indeed!

 

[Warmer1]

Darwin awards all around. Homo sapiens sapiens indeed!

From
http://http://theconsensusproject.com/

 

[Arnold Martin]

.
This is awkward ....

Five meters of ice– about 16 feet thick - is threatening the survival of polar bears in the Southern Beaufort Sea region along Alaska’s Arctic coast, according to Dr. Susan J. Crockford, an evolutionary biologist in British Columbia who has studied polar bears for most of her 35-year career.

I hope she survives

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/bar...-polar-bears-threatened-too-much-spring-ice-0

 

[macdoc]

Moving right along.

desmogblog.com/judith-curry‎
Apr 25, 2013 - Judith Curry Credentials PhD, Geophysical Sciences, University of Chicago ( 1982). ... “I do receive some funding from the fossil fuel industry.[/QUOTE]

Hey AM - did you answer the question???
Does CO2 trap IR??
Curry says it does....why are you so afraid to answer???

"If all other things remain equal, it's clear that adding more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere will warm the planet," she told the committee.

Your "arguments" are excremental....one hopes you are getting paid for the nonsense...

•••••

Meanwhile it's getting warmer and we're responsible...despite COTU views expressed by the poorly informed or purposefully ill-informed...or those intent on disinformation. Koch et al.

••••

Last Month Was The Fourth-Hottest March On Record
BY RYAN KORONOWSKI ON APRIL 23, 2014 AT 4:16 PM

The Midwest’s corn crop may be delayed because the ground is still too wet or too cold to plant, and much of the United States is still not quite sure if spring has arrived.

But looking at the entire globe — as scientists do when they track things like global warming — 2014′s month of March was the fourth-hottest one on record. Only 2002, 2010, and 1990 were warmer. Data from 135 years of records show that the average global temperature in March 2014 was 1.3°F warmer than the 20th century average of 54.9°F. This was the 38th March that was hotter than average.
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) climate scientist Jessica Blunden said that “the change was primarily due to warmer-than-average temperatures over central Asia in March, compared with cooler-than-average temperatures in February.”
NOAA’s data analysis matches that of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, which also found March to be the warmer than all but three other Marches on record.
The land surface temperature anomaly from December through February in North America. The record warmth in the west vied with the extreme cold in the east.
The land surface temperature anomaly from December through February in North America. The record warmth in the west vied with the extreme cold in the east.
CREDIT: NASA
Yes, the U.S. experienced its 34th-coldest winter in 119 years of data. But the U.S. National Climatic Data Center reported last month that the winter of 2013-2014 ended up being the 8th-warmest, globally, on record.

more

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/20...month-was-the-fourth-hottest-march-on-record/

 

[macdoc]

Climate change: Don't wait until you can feel it
Date:
April 25, 2014
Source:
Carnegie Institution

Despite overwhelming scientific evidence for the impending dangers of human-made climate change, policy decisions leading to substantial emissions reduction have been slow. New work from Carnegie's Katharine Ricke and Ken Caldeira focuses on the intersection between personal and global impacts. They find that even as extreme weather events influence those who experience them to support policy to address climate change, waiting for the majority of people to live through such conditions firsthand could delay meaningful action by decades. Their findings are published by Nature Climate Change.

Nearly every year, extreme weather events such as heat waves and hurricanes spur the discussion of climate change in the media and among politicians. This can create a window of opportunity for those seeking to enact policy aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions. But this window of opportunity could be delayed by decades due to the vagaries of weather.
"When support for doing something about climate change is based on personal observations of local weather, policymaking may end up being dictated by the roulette wheel of natural climate variability," says Ricke.

Ricke and Calderia's modeling studies show that within 50 years nearly every country in the world will experience the kind of extreme weather that can be a policy trigger.

more
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140425093601.htm

 

[macdoc]

And California bakes....

Study Links California Drought To Global Climate Change
April 24, 2014 11:07 AM

WASHINGTON (AP) – While researchers have sometimes connected weather extremes to man-made global warming, usually it’s not done in real time. Now a study is asserting a link between climate change and both the intensifying California drought and the polar vortex blamed for a harsh winter that mercifully has just ended in many places.
The Utah State University scientists involved in the study say they hope what they found can help them predict the next big weird winter.
Outside scientists, such as Katharine Hayhoe at Texas Tech University, are calling this study promising but not quite proven as it pushes the boundaries in “one of the hottest topics in climate science today.”
The United States just came out of a two-faced winter – bitter cold and snowy in the Midwest and East, warm and severely dry in the West. The latest U.S. drought monitor says 100 percent of California is in an official drought.
The new study blames an unusual “dipole,” a combination of a strong Western high pressure ridge and deep Great Lakes low pressure trough. That dipole is linked to a recently found precursor to El Nino, the world-weather changing phenomenon. And that precursor itself seems amplified by a build-up of heat-trapping greenhouse gases, the study says.
It’s like a complex game of weather dominos that starts with cold water off China and ends with a devastating drought and memorable winter in the United States, said study author Simon Wang, a Utah State University climate scientist.
Wang was looking at colder water off China as a precursor to an El Nino. The colder water there triggers westerly winds in the tropical Pacific. Those westerly winds persist for several months and eventually push warmed up water and air to the central Pacific where an El Nino forms, Wang said.
An El Nino is a warming of the central Pacific once every few years, from a combination of wind and waves in the tropics. It shakes up climate around the world, changing rain and temperature patterns. Wang saw the precursors and weather event coming months before federal weather officials issued an official El Nino watch last month.
Then Wang noticed the connection between that precursor – cold water off China, Vietnam and Taiwan – and the recent wild winter. He tracked similar combinations of highs and lows in North America. And he found those combination extremes are getting stronger.

snip and the models confirm the observations

Wang compared computer simulations with and without gases from the burning of fossil fuels. When he included carbon dioxide from fossil fuel use, he got a scenario over the past few decades that mirrored what has happened, including this past weird winter and other worsening dipole conditions. When he took out the greenhouse gases, the increasing extremes actually went down – not what happened in real life.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2014/04/24/study-links-california-drought-to-global-climate-change/

Getting warmer
Getting wilder....
welcome to the Anthropocene.....where most of the planet is getting on with dealing with the reality of AGW...instead of denying reality.

and worse than we know...

Science 25 April 2014:
Vol. 344 no. 6182 p. 348
DOI: 10.1126/science.344.6182.348
NEWS & ANALYSIS
CLIMATE SCIENCE
Climate Outsider Finds Missing Global Warming
Eli Kintisch

Major climate data sets have underestimated the rate of global warming in the last 15 years owing largely to poor data in the Arctic, the planet's fastest warming region.
A dearth of temperature stations there is one culprit; another is a data-smoothing algorithm that has been improperly tuning down temperatures there. The findings come from an unlikely source: a crystallographer and graduate student working on the temperature analyses in their spare time.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/344/6182/348.summary

and more to that aspect of underestimating the rate of warming...

The broken temperature record

It looks likely that the rapid warming of the Arctic has broken the thermometer temperature record in two different ways - firstly by violating the assumption that unobserved regions of the planet warm at a broadly similar rate to observed regions, and secondly by violating the assumption that neighbouring regions of the planet's surface warm at a similar rate. While the errors are small in absolute terms and do not affect the big picture, they are enough to distort the noisy short term trends which have dominated the public discourse on climate change.

If this analysis is correct then all of the land-ocean records used in the IPCC AR5 report have been overstating the slowdown in warming over the past 16 years, although for different reasons. The existence of two distinct cool biases in different versions of the temperature record may of course have contributed to the fact that the problems went undetected. Of the professionally maintained datasets, only the new Berkeley Earth land-ocean record is unaffected.

We anticipate that there will be continuing developments from the main temperature record providers both to address the problem of coverage and to establish consistent and carefully validated records for the most important high latitude stations. The new International Surface Temperature Initiative will provide a basis for the next version of the GHCN data, and will feature many more Arctic stations. Weather model reanalyses, satellite data and manual reconstructions of critical stations may also prove important. Hopefully much of the disagreement between different versions of the temperature record can be resolved. If this is the case then one source of uncertainty in our understanding of recent temperature trends will have been addressed.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/how_global_warming_broke_the_thermometer_record.html

The Arctic has present challenges as the visible changes are enormous while the data is sparse....that aspect is improving now.....

Minimum sea ice extent in September 2013 exceeded the record low of 2012, but was the 6th lowest since observations began in 1979 despite the relatively cool summer of 2013. The seven lowest minimum ice extents have occurred in the last seven years, 2007-2013.

http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/reportcard/

snip

Changes in fish and bottom dwelling organisms include continued northward migration of species not previously seen in the Arctic.

the fish don't care what the likes of Arnold and Judy opine....they just get on with dealing with a warming world.

 

[Trakar]

.
This is awkward ....

Indeed misquoting, and changing the words of the expert one is supposedly going to for information can be quite awkward when the expert corrects your mistakes. Awkward, but somehow less than surprising.


https://polarbearscience.com/2014/0...polar-bears-threatenedby-too-much-spring-ice/

...so I’m doing it here to set the record straight, just in case it does not get taken care of in the original story.

The actual report that spurred the CNS distorted story which was then even further distorted by WUWT who tried to make this sound like it applied to the entire arctic and represented an unusual and unprecedented cooling of the arctic resulting in record Ice thickness:

https://polarbearscience.com/2014/0...-dont-bode-well-for-beaufort-sea-polar-bears/

 

[macdoc]

because you are afraid of the impact those understandings will have on rational public policy decisions going forward."

He's afraid to even publically admit science facts that even his new heroine Curry acknowledges.... C02 absorbs IR. and accumulating CO2 warms the atmosphere.

AM won't answer the simple science question of established fact in a science forum....so anything he says is discredited.....fruit of the poisoned tree.

 

[macdoc]

and as a cherry on the "not credible source of science cake" for Ms Curry

desmogblog.com/judith-curry‎
Apr 25, 2013 - Judith Curry Credentials PhD, Geophysical Sciences, University of Chicago ( 1982). ... “I do receive some funding from the fossil fuel industry.

in case anyone missed it Now we know what she is, it's just a matter of wondering about the price.

 

[macdoc]

Wonder how the denier sect deals with this reality...

El Nino looming too...

Does El Niño Plus Global Warming Equal Global Temperature Records In 2014 And 2015?
BY JOE ROMM APRIL 22, 2014 AT 5:26 PM UPDATED: APRIL 22, 2014 AT 5:28 PM
facebook icon 2,556Share This twitter icon 306Tweet This google plus icon email icon "Does El Niño Plus Global Warming Equal Global Temperature Records In 2014 And 2015?" Share: facebook icon twitter icon google plus icon Share on email
An El Niño appears increasingly likely this year, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and Australia’s Bureau of Meteorology (BOM). If it starts relatively quickly, then 2014 could well be the hottest year on record, but if it is a strong El Niño, as many currently expect, then 2015 would likely break all previous global records.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/04/22/3429380/el-nino-global-warming-temperature-record/

and the one looming

 

[Trakar]

Wonder how the denier sect deals with this reality...

El Nino looming too...

[qimg]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-t1t75IPeOYA/U129TH-lZYI/AAAAAAAAFmM/i4gufKoiNw4/s638/gistemp_nino_s-638x218.jpg[/qimg]



http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/04/22/3429380/el-nino-global-warming-temperature-record/

and the one looming

The La Nina years appear to have the greatest slope rise.

 

[kmortis]

Keep this thread to the discussion of the science of AGW. If you want to discuss the social/political aspects, or the Conspiracy Theories associated, please go to the appropriate forums for that.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis

 

[ideogram]

Five meters of ice in one region of the Arctic does not suggest the planet has stopped warming. This is what the word "global" means. This simple fact has been repeated many times. This is why your post is garbage.

An evolutionary biologist is not qualified to say anything about global warming. This simple fact has been repeated many times. This is why your post is garbage.