• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, it won't take very many people to drag everyone else into a disastrous conflict.

Also interesting was this:

It is very interesting. I wonder why the percentages of those are much smaller than the Russian minority. Maybe because they realize Ukraine is much more democratic than Russia and offers many more opportunities in the long term? Russia is richer right now, but their oligarhic structure seals your fate: you're either well-connected and rich, or sell your vote for scraps. Ukraine is somewhat better in this regard, and needs to be, since it lacks the legendary riches of the east.

McHrozni
 
We don't actually know what post-coup Ukraine is going to be like; its history up to now hasn't been markedly better than Russia's when it comes to oligarchs and corruption. The polling figures probably reflect that most people are not so dissatisfied as to want the disruption involved in revising the border.

The objective of separatists will be to change that by polarising the population and creating a sense that Russian speakers will only be safe inside Russia, or at least outside Ukraine and under Russian protection. In the short-term they'll want to prevent free and fair elections in May.
 
In the short-term they'll want to prevent free and fair elections in May.

This is even funnier than your "Some could argue that all in this context means all"

First: I haven't done the math, but Crimea gone means there are already less people in Ukraine who are likely to vote pro russian.
Second: Eastern ukraine seperating would further tip the scales into EUmaidans direction.
Third: There was this candidate who got beaten up.
Fourth: It's a presidential election. It's mainly symbolic. (I have no idea what an ukrainian president can do but it sounds closer to the powers of an european president (Cutting ribbons) than an american one)

The election is either a sideshow or if it isn't (depending on the powers of the president) its yats who would gain if the election wasn't "free and fair"
 


Wondering if anyone can confirm/refute the claims Hudson is making here. Particularly anyone who's been following German coverage of these events.
 
Last edited:
First you don't make any sense, in addition to not doing math.

Second, you really think the government sees it that way? Weird.

Third, yes? It must have left quite an impression. How is it relevant?

Fourth: You say a presidential election is mostly symbolic, and then admit you have no idea. Wikipedia exists, but i guess that resembles work on your part. Mere uninformed speculation is more your gambit, we get it. Anyway, you're wrong. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Ukraine

You're welcome.
 
The election is either a sideshow or if it isn't (depending on the powers of the president) its yats who would gain if the election wasn't "free and fair"
Free and fair elections would serve to reassure the Russian-speaking population (whoever wins) and tend to normalise the current situation, which is not what the separatists want.
 
seems pretty clear the majority in eastern Ukraine do not want to split off, mind you we only have a rigged referendum in crimea to go on as to what the true feelings of the people there were.
 


Wondering if anyone can confirm/refute the claims Hudson is making here. Particularly anyone who's been following German coverage of these events.


The German TV magazine in question is none that jumps to conclusions. Hudson exaggerates a bit about what they say and what they find, but not much. They didn't say "Swoboda is behind the snipers", but they found Swoboda people of the putschist regime are not seriously investigating this crime which has evidence pointing back at them, adding quite a bunch to the already existing. You can find my summary, Caustic Logic's elaboration and a bit of pseudo-skeptical denial and bitching over there.

As to the general reporting in Germany - a lot of our "elite" journalists are members of this or the other "transatlantic" lobby organization and that has shown in their Ukraine reporting to an extent that it became obvious and triggered floods of critical comments accusing them of bias/propaganda. A professional poll asked the question if Germans want to "stand firm with "the West"" or take an intermediary position between West and Russia (it didn't give the option to stand firm with Russia). While 45% answered in the "proper" way, 49% wanted to take an intermediary position, in the former Eastern Germany even 60%. That shocked the pre$$titudes and some politicians even more, and they started to write whiny articles about anti-americanism etc, trying to pretend that the NSA scandal never happened and people hadn't grasped the regime chance pattern in the Ukraine and forgot about illegal wars started on a pack of lies, which in return triggered even greater waves of mocking/rejecting their reporting. Some politicians made statements of the old kind of "we need to elect us a new people". ;)

So Hudson's might be quite right there as well when he adds Germany to the voluminous lists of countries where a majority now utterly despises what became of the USA (regime) and doesn't buy any further lies.
 
Last edited:
The German TV magazine in question is none that jumps to conclusions. Hudson exaggerates a bit about what they say and what they find, but not much. They didn't say "Swoboda is behind the snipers", but they found Swoboda people of the putschist regime are not seriously investigating this crime which has evidence pointing back at them, adding quite a bunch to the already existing. You can find my summary, Caustic Logic's elaboration and a bit of pseudo-skeptical denial and bitching over there.

As to the general reporting in Germany - a lot of our "elite" journalists are members of this or the other "transatlantic" lobby organization and that has shown in their Ukraine reporting to an extent that it became obvious and triggered floods of critical comments accusing them of bias/propaganda. A professional poll asked the question if Germans want to "stand firm with "the West"" or take an intermediary position between West and Russia (it didn't give the option to stand firm with Russia). While 45% answered in the "proper" way, 49% wanted to take an intermediary position, in the former Eastern Germany even 60%. That shocked the pre$$titudes and some politicians even more, and they started to write whiny articles about anti-americanism etc, trying to pretend that the NSA scandal never happened and people hadn't grasped the regime chance pattern in the Ukraine and forgot about illegal wars started on a pack of lies, which in return triggered even greater waves of mocking/rejecting their reporting. Some politicians made statements of the old kind of "we need to elect us a new people". ;)

So Hudson's might be quite right there as well when he adds Germany to the voluminous lists of countries where a majority now utterly despises what became of the USA (regime) and doesn't buy any further lies.

what has any of this to do with Russia illegally seizing someone else's land and causing disruption and death in the rest of the same country?

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Russia has acted illegally and outside of international law.
 
The "desperate despot" from the quote you brought to my attention? HE? THE MONSTER? ;):rolleyes:

You'll have to take that up with Dcdrac. Although I am sure you will agree that either Zhironovsky is a mad fascist bastard or he at least plays one on TV. I think he's for entertainment purposes only, but no matter how much he camps it up, there will be Russians who think like he says he does.
 
The German TV magazine in question is none that jumps to conclusions. Hudson exaggerates a bit about what they say and what they find, but not much. They didn't say "Swoboda is behind the snipers", but they found Swoboda people of the putschist regime are not seriously investigating this crime which has evidence pointing back at them, adding quite a bunch to the already existing. You can find my summary, Caustic Logic's elaboration and a bit of pseudo-skeptical denial and bitching over there.

As to the general reporting in Germany - a lot of our "elite" journalists are members of this or the other "transatlantic" lobby organization and that has shown in their Ukraine reporting to an extent that it became obvious and triggered floods of critical comments accusing them of bias/propaganda. A professional poll asked the question if Germans want to "stand firm with "the West"" or take an intermediary position between West and Russia (it didn't give the option to stand firm with Russia). While 45% answered in the "proper" way, 49% wanted to take an intermediary position, in the former Eastern Germany even 60%. That shocked the pre$$titudes and some politicians even more, and they started to write whiny articles about anti-americanism etc, trying to pretend that the NSA scandal never happened and people hadn't grasped the regime chance pattern in the Ukraine and forgot about illegal wars started on a pack of lies, which in return triggered even greater waves of mocking/rejecting their reporting. Some politicians made statements of the old kind of "we need to elect us a new people". ;)

So Hudson's might be quite right there as well when he adds Germany to the voluminous lists of countries where a majority now utterly despises what became of the USA (regime) and doesn't buy any further lies.

Wow, now criticism of poor critical thinking is Denial and Bitching. Let's just give up all analysis and just rely on confirmation bias and labeling, eh?
 
You'll have to take that up with Dcdrac. Although I am sure you will agree that either Zhironovsky is a mad fascist bastard or he at least plays one on TV. I think he's for entertainment purposes only, but no matter how much he camps it up, there will be Russians who think like he says he does.


He's a clown and attention whore, has been for a long time. Him acting like a weirdo isn't news, so I fail to see what your video is supposed to tell us (hence I made the best of it). There's another recent one that's even "better", where he wears some fantasy uniform and screams.
 
Last edited:
a clown am I?

At least I do not support the actions of an autocratic and in all but name dictatorship that tramples on human rights and has allowed Russia to become a basket case.

You do not know me, so please refrain from insulting me in public.

I'm pretty sure CE was referring to Zhironovsky.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom