General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[EtienneSC]

No. The entire sentences appear in Lukaszkiewicz report on the shortened version I linked for you, that were totally edited out by MGK in the post you offered from them. Yes or No?

"During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves, which, in connection with the statements by the witnesses Romanowski and Wiernik, leads to the conclusion that nearly all of the bodies of the victims were burned, all the more so since the camp was liquidated early and the murderers had much time."

I linked you to this version so you could read the criticisms of MGK's edits by Roberto Muehlenkamp. Did you read them?

My next question is about Eric's propaganda film. Have you actually watched it from start to finish?

I've looked at both. So basically you are asking us to believe your version of one of the central events of European history - Treblinka is the second most significant location after Auschwitz remember - on the basis of the following forensic evidence:
a) excerpts from a Polish document that is not available in English (I cannot find it in book form and assume if you knew of an online version you would have linked to it)
b) an unpublished British doctoral thesis that cannot be consulted until 2016 at the earliest
c) inconclusive articles that reportedly summarize the thesis.
You have to admit, you don't have too impressive a brief to speak to after over 60 years of research. Doesn't that surprise you? Doesn't it suggest anything to you about your predecessors?

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Here is a 5 minute Youtube video on the excavation of the old gas chamber at Treblinka. ( I don't understand why the floor tiles were placed upside down.)

Why do you think the floor tiles were placed upside down?

 

[Dcdrac]

Chelmno was also operating on a similar level

http://www.theholocaustexplained.org/ks3/the-final-solution/the-death-camps/chelmno/

so far I have yet to see anything presented that undermines the case that the death camps existed.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Why do you think the floor tiles were placed upside down?

I really don't have a clue. The manufacturer of the tiles has been identified.

Perhaps the Jewish laborers didn't like the fact they were building a gas chamber and hid the Star of David. Perhaps the German officer foreman didn't like them. I really don't know. I don't think we ever will know. The eyewitnesses observed that big Star of David on the front of the new gas chamber and also identified the colour of the tiles inside the gas chamber. So at least we have confirmation for the accuracy of their testimonies.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

I've looked at both. So basically you are asking us to believe your the historical version of one of the central events of European history - Treblinka is the second most significant location after Auschwitz remember - on the basis of the following forensic evidence:

1) The Hofle Telegram concerning Treblinka,
2) Jewish eyewitnesses concerning Treblinka,
3) German eye witnesses concerning Treblinka,
4) Confessions by both German Commanding officer of Treblinka,
5) Train records going into Treblinka and Station master Zabecki's document currently held in Poland
6) The investigation by Justice Lukaszkiewicz, his report & photos, concerning Treblinka.
7) The current investigation and preliminary report issued by Staffordshire university that excavates the old gas chamber at Treblinka.
8) Adolf Eichmann's confession about mass executions in Poland,
9) 800,000 missing Jews who went to Treblinka.

You have to admit, you don't have too impressive a brief to speak to after over 60 years of research.

I only made you aware of the above facts in the last two weeks. We already knew. Your'e a holocaust denier remember?

 

[EtienneSC]

1) The Hofle Telegram concerning Treblinka,
2) Jewish eyewitnesses concerning Treblinka,
3) German eye witnesses concerning Treblinka,
4) Confessions by both German Commanding officer of Treblinka,
5) Train records going into Treblinka and Station master Zabecki's document currently held in Poland
6) The investigation by Justice Lukaszkiewicz, his report & photos, concerning Treblinka.
7) The current investigation and preliminary report issued by Staffordshire university that excavates the old gas chamber at Treblinka.
8) Adolf Eichmann's confession about mass executions in Poland,
9) 800,000 missing Jews who went to Treblinka.

Only 6 & 7 are forensic in nature, so we agree on the nature of the forensic evidence.

 

[EtienneSC]

The revisionist hits just keep on coming. Here is David Cole & Bradley Smith's 2007 film on the Great Taboo - confined to the free speech issue.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Only 6 & 7 are forensic in nature, so we agree on the nature of the forensic evidence.

I was a forensic accountant. You seem to be confusing forensic archaeology as "forensics" in it's entirety.

Forensic science is the scientific method of gathering and examining information about the past. This is especially important in law enforcement where forensics is done in relation to criminal or civil law, but forensics are also carried out in other fields, such as astronomy, archaeology, biology and geology to investigate ancient times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_science

 

[Matthew Ellard]

The revisionist hits just keep on coming. Here is David Cole & Bradley Smith's 2007 film on the Great Taboo - confined to the free speech issue.

Yes, "Revisionists" ( holocaust deniers) are certainly taking a lot of hits at the moment.

David Cole has announced he is no longer a holocaust denier and this film is rubbish. Didn't you know?

Bradley Smith is a small time con artist who seeks donations from uneducated junior holocaust deniers, to book holocaust denier adverts in college newspapers. However no holocaust denier knows where he booked these adverts and what he did with the rest of the money. Funny about that.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Staffordshire University is methodically and carefully continuing it's peer reviewed forensic archaeological examination of Treblinka death camp.

It's no wonder the cult members are throwing "out of date" propaganda videos here, from people who have since recanted. It's just the "death spasms" of a withering cult.

Have you actually watched this video? No? What about Eric Hunt's latest video he made when released from non-voluntary psychiatric care? No?


http://codohfounder.com/please-contribute/

 

[Nessie]

I really don't have a clue. The manufacturer of the tiles has been identified.

Perhaps the Jewish laborers didn't like the fact they were building a gas chamber and hid the Star of David. Perhaps the German officer foreman didn't like them. I really don't know. I don't think we ever will know. The eyewitnesses observed that big Star of David on the front of the new gas chamber and also identified the colour of the tiles inside the gas chamber. So at least we have confirmation for the accuracy of their testimonies.

You guys have not done much tiling have you! The side to the mortar is unglazed and has a makers mark and dimples to make it stick better, as seen here

http://blogs.staffs.ac.uk/archaeolo...2-sf4-red-tile-with-star-on-underside-c/#main

The top is smooth and glazed, as you would specify for any where that is going to get wet as it is water proof, as seen here

http://blogs.staffs.ac.uk/archaeolo...01-sf1-red-tile-with-concrete-setting-a/#main

The Uni of Staffordshire's own web site has thankfully dropped the Star of David mistake and acknowledged "The tiles found were manufactured by Dziewulski i Lange."

http://blogs.staffs.ac.uk/archaeolo...urvey-at-treblinka-ii-the-extermination-camp/

 

[Matthew Ellard]

You guys have not done much tiling have you! The side to the mortar is unglazed and has a makers mark and dimples to make it stick better, as seen here.

Thanks Nessie. I look like a bit of an idiot saying "we probably will never know". I now realise that it was the manufacturer's logo and the tiles were placed with the logo downwards. I also realise that this information was already on the Staffordshire university website.

I should always double check facts first, before posting.

 

[KDLarsen]

Thanks Nessie. I look like a bit of an idiot saying "we probably will never know". I now realise that it was the manufacturer's logo and the tiles were placed with the logo downwards. I also realise that this information was already on the Staffordshire university website.

I should always double check facts first, before posting.

Seems like others were fooled, at least judging by stuff like what's written in this article

At another site, the archaeologists found the first physical evidence of the brick bathhouse where hundreds of thousands were killed. They uncovered the building's foundation, as well as yellowish tiles that were stamped with six-pointed Stars of David.

That ghoulish touch, which matches witnesses' descriptions of the site, was part of the Nazis' plan to lull their Jewish prisoners into compliance before they were killed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/scie...-dig-nazi-death-camp-secrets-treblinka-n66241

As Nessie suggested, sounds like a bit of a blunder was made re: the Star of David sign.

 

[Nessie]

The denier/revisionists comments and how the media ran with the Star of David headline, all without fact checking caught me out as well. Ironically it was a denier/revisionist the blackrabbitofinle who posted the details of the tiles on RODOH who caused me to go back and check. Plus I have done some tiling in my time!

I did spend a few hours going through all the references I could find in the media to the Star of David and posted (where I could) in the comments section about the real source of the star.

 

[EtienneSC]

I was a forensic accountant. You seem to be confusing forensic archaeology as "forensics" in it's entirety.

Forensic science is the scientific method of gathering and examining information about the past. This is especially important in law enforcement where forensics is done in relation to criminal or civil law, but forensics are also carried out in other fields, such as astronomy, archaeology, biology and geology to investigate ancient times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_science

I was using the term in the sense found in my dictionary, namely "Pertaining to courts of judicature, or to public debate; forensic medicine: the science of medicine in relation to law." This usage is reflected later in the Wiki article. I was assuming the events at Treblinka were a crime and hence was using the term to refer to evidence gathered in the context of related court proceedings.

 

[EtienneSC]

Yes, "Revisionists" ( holocaust deniers) are certainly taking a lot of hits at the moment.

David Cole has announced he is no longer a holocaust denier and this film is rubbish. Didn't you know? [.....]

It's no wonder the cult members are throwing "out of date" propaganda videos here, from people who have since recanted. It's just the "death spasms" of a withering cult. [.....]

I wasn't aware of any claims Cole has made specifically about the 2007 film. He has described his role in the film recently here. I do know that he withdrew from revisionism and recanted following death threats in the 1990s (a $25,000 reward was offered). I have enough involvement with accountancy myself to know that death threats would alert an auditor that the situation was well out of order (it's called "professional scepticism"). This happened in Japan a few years ago and the accountant involved fled the country.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

I do know that he withdrew from revisionism and recanted following death threats in the 1990s (a $25,000 reward was offered).

How interesting. So you believe the JDL took a $25,000 contract out on him? Did David Cole tell you that?

"Hikind is a member of the Jewish Defense League, the organization that put a $25,000 bounty on my head in 1997 and pressured me to recant."

However you seem unaware that David Cole was in ongoing contact with the JDL and his recanting of his holocaust denial was published on their website on 2 January 1998. Why do you think David Cole doesn't mention this? Why did David Cole tell Irv Rubin of the JDL, that he was moving to Michigan to look after a sick relative, if the JDL had a contract on him? You seem also unaware that David Cole made a $200 donation to the JDL in 1998.

May I suggest to you that David Cole is a compulsive liar and he will use any name, tell any story and make any statement, that he thinks will make him money.

 

[Jonathan Harrison]

Why would the Nazis delouse people at Treblinka then send them east in an unhygienic cattle truck to a ghetto where they would simply pick up more lice?

 

[Dash80]

Why would the Nazis delouse people at Treblinka then send them east in an unhygienic cattle truck to a ghetto where they would simply pick up more lice?

Indeed.

Also why would they send the Białystok region Jews WEST to Treblinka for "delousing" only to send them east again?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Why would the Nazis delouse people at Treblinka then send them east in an unhygienic cattle truck to a ghetto where they would simply pick up more lice?

Also why would they send the Białystok region Jews WEST to Treblinka for "delousing" only to send them east again?

Why is Treblinka claimed to be a transit camp, when there was no accommodation for 4,000, people per train, to sleep there?

 

[Dash80]

Why is Treblinka claimed to be a transit camp, when there was no accommodation for 4,000, people per train, to sleep there?

By August 1942 over 10,000 Jews were deported to Treblinka every day.

There are plenty of witnesses who saw the trains stuffed full of Jews going to Treblinka, Polish rail workers watched the cattle cars being shunted into the camp from Treblinka station. Where are the statements describing thousands of Jews leaving the camp again? Don't deniers find it the least bit fishy that all those people were seen going into this small camp (that could not possibly accommodate even a fraction of them) and never coming out again?

The whole transit camp "explaination" makes zero sense.