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Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Let us start from this position. . . .

Are there any cases of attempted extradition with the evidence of guilt is this poor? I do not think that most US Grand Juries would find enough evidence for even a trial in this case.

I think we are already on new ground here.

We have unfair trial combined with reasonable doubt and double jeopardy.
 
no doubt but that doesn't make the analysis wrong.

personally i don't think the US will do something that sets a precedent. i suppose a tea party president might go for one.

maybe the senate and the prez will decide to change all extradition treaties that don't accept our rights and procedures.


No one likes us-I don't know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let's drop the big one and see what happens

We give them money-but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us-so let's surprise them
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them

Asia's crowded and Europe's too old
Africa is far too hot
And Canada's too cold
And South America stole our name
Let's drop the big one
There'll be no one left to blame us

We'll save Australia
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin', too

Boom goes London and boom Paris
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round Will just be another American town Oh, how peaceful it will be We'll set everybody freeYou'll wear a Japanese kimono babe
And there'll be Italian shoes for me

They all hate us anyhow
So let's drop the big one now
Let's drop the big one now​

There seems to be a cottage industry developing happy to post her back. I don't consider myself tribal, but I would feel tribal as hell if this involved one of our girls. If you have any more yachts I'll bet bet one right now she never goes back:)
 
Let us start from this position. . . .

Are there any cases of attempted extradition with the evidence of guilt is this poor? I do not think that most US Grand Juries would find enough evidence for even a trial in this case.

I think we are already on new ground here.

We have unfair trial combined with reasonable doubt and double jeopardy.

Not that well versed in the history. It would be interesting to see the most egregious cases of the past.

I agree that the evidence before the first trial didn't turn out to be solid but before the trial the DNA situation wasn't as clear as it is now.

I would guess that there haven't been many cases where this exact scenario occurred in terms of the sequence of events after arrest.

Why did the Italians let her go? The court could have kept her there, Was it Hellmann's decision?

I think it much more likely that the decision will based on the specific's rather than on some constitutional grounds. Maybe the US won't explain at all.
 
There seems to be a cottage industry developing happy to post her back. I don't consider myself tribal, but I would feel tribal as hell if this involved one of our girls. If you have any more yachts I'll bet bet one right now she never goes back:)

Does that mean send her back?

No yachts. I was forced to sell the one and only boat I had. She was a nice 34 Catalina. Old but nice.
 
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Not that well versed in the history. It would be interesting to see the most egregious cases of the past.

I agree that the evidence before the first trial didn't turn out to be solid but before the trial the DNA situation wasn't as clear as it is now.

I would guess that there haven't been many cases where this exact scenario occurred in terms of the sequence of events after arrest.

Why did the Italians let her go? The court could have kept her there, Was it Hellmann's decision?

I think it much more likely that the decision will based on the specific's rather than on some constitutional grounds. Maybe the US won't explain at all.

I wonder if somewhere in the Italian system, they do not realize that AK/RS really are innocent. They don't want to let it go because they see if as a black mark against their system.

I also agree that the case does seem best on its merits. I would not argue either double jeopardy or speedy trial initially but that the evidence does not support guilt. It then becomes a non constitutional issue and sidesteps a lengthy legal battle.

I want to see Amanda get her life back, something I cannot see how we can do for Raffaele
 
Does that mean send her back?

No yachts. I was forced to sell the one and only boat I had. She was a nice 34 Catalina. Old but nice.
Yes post as in send. She is being kicked around like a football, an object. The term post seemed fair. My brother was a boat broker, says people are happy when buying, happier after selling.
 
Another lesson from the Duke lacrosse case

Joseph Cheshire, an attorney for one of the three accused Duke lacrosse players said, "Any expert and any person in the world will tell you that your [own] DNA is in your bathroom." (p. 242, "The Price of Silence," by William Cohan). Case closed.
 
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Yes post as in send. She is being kicked around like a football, an object. The term post seemed fair. My brother was a boat broker, says people are happy when buying, happier after selling.

A boat is a hole in the water that you throw money.
 
I have a friend with a sail boat and love sailing . . . .Something seems to go wrong with her sail boat every time though. :blush:
 
no doubt but that doesn't make the analysis wrong.

personally i don't think the US will do something that sets a precedent. i suppose a tea party president might go for one.

maybe the senate and the prez will decide to change all extradition treaties that don't accept our rights and procedures.


No one likes us-I don't know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let's drop the big one and see what happens

We give them money-but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us-so let's surprise them
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them

Asia's crowded and Europe's too old
Africa is far too hot
And Canada's too cold
And South America stole our name
Let's drop the big one
There'll be no one left to blame us

We'll save Australia
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin', too

Boom goes London and boom Paris
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round Will just be another American town Oh, how peaceful it will be We'll set everybody freeYou'll wear a Japanese kimono babe
And there'll be Italian shoes for me

They all hate us anyhow
So let's drop the big one now
Let's drop the big one now​

Classic Randy Newman "Political Science". in the movie Blast from the Past Nice choice Grinder
 
Does anyone know if Yummiest is helping structure/frame Nencini's motivation report?

I doubt it...he would be here picking our brains by making absurd statements and outrageous and simplistic arguments that defy logic and science and common sense.

He vets that type of crap here, and he has not been here, so I'm guessing he is a Mignini only employee.

Nencini will invent his own stupid illogical speculation...much as Massei did.
 
I doubt it...he would be here picking our brains by making absurd statements and outrageous and simplistic arguments that defy logic and science and common sense.

He vets that type of crap here, and he has not been here, so I'm guessing he is a Mignini only employee.

Nencini will invent his own stupid illogical speculation...much as Massei did.

But Massei had several hours to fill, by ignoring the science. Crini has allowed Nencini about 25 minutes by accepting Naruto and early death.
I wonder if the ninety days passes it will be a 12 monther like the Scazzi fiasco.

My guess, Nencini is losing his hair right now. The report is unwriteable. (except by an Italian scholar).
 
A thought

Ah, pity, the rabble will never understand.

The saying is "a hole in the water, into which you throw money"

I thought there was something about owning a speedboat is like standing in the shower tearing up hundred-dollar bills.

Hey! Maybe Randy Newman should be appointed ambassador to Italy! :)
 
A few weeks ago people were wondering about the watch Guede was caught with and that piece of information only came from Nina Burleigh.

It's in the Micheli Report p 11

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/2008-10-28_EngG.pdf

"emerged that the young man was in possession of a laptop complete
with accessories (result stolen at a law firm in Perugia), as well as a woman's watch, a hammer and a large kitchen knife, the latter of school property and, therefore, had been stolen from GUEDE immediately before.
 
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A few weeks ago people were wondering about the watch Guede was caught with and that piece of information only came from Nina Burleigh.

It's in the Micheli Report p 11

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/2008-10-28_EngG.pdf

Thanks MichaelB. Now we would like to know why he was not prosecuted for handling the watch and what his story about it was. He said he bought the laptop in Milan. How did the thief and burglar explain his possession of a lady's watch?
 
Tesla I see you didn't give instructions on how to disable the lawyers' system. We don't know exactly how many burglaries he was involved with, but had he been the thief you assume for knowing a multitude of systems why would he be in need of money for rent?

From what the lawyer said I'm assuming he had been shown how it worked and that's why he made the statement about not being able to turn off the phone dialer in way he said it.

I also think that after the burglary the lawyer would be concerned about how easy it was to turn off the system and looked into the expertise needed.

Once again this person needed to know how to do it without accessing the Net while doing the job.


What specifically was done to disable the dialler? If the lawyers were using an old tech alarm, it's a simple matter of disconecting the telephone line where it enters the building.
 
But Massei had several hours to fill, by ignoring the science. Crini has allowed Nencini about 25 minutes by accepting Naruto and early death.
I wonder if the ninety days passes it will be a 12 monther like the Scazzi fiasco.

My guess, Nencini is losing his hair right now. The report is unwriteable. (except by an Italian scholar).

I've been reading the various motivations reports which have come out of Rudy's fast-track process. Just to confess how slow I am on the uptake, up until about two weeks ago, I thought Rudy's fast-track process was completely irrelevant to the full-trial process Knox and Sollecito chose.

How naive can a guy be. I'm slow, but my spelling is also poor. Thank God for auto-connect.

So, Nencini will be writing a report which goes a long way to "harmonizing" Massei's report with Rudy's various reports. I thought that Nencini's court would have freedom to disagree with the March 2013 ISC ruling, which in essence says that the two tracks of prosecution in this case must match.

The main issue that Nencini has to deal with is that, in essence, Knox and Sollecito were convicted at Guede's fast-track process, at the very least that's what's in the motivations reports. Rudy's fast-track process contains various stipulations from both sides (note: the sides in that case are Mignini on one and Rudy and his lawyers on the other) - Amanda had to have let Rudy in, the break in had to have been faked..... Amanda was the only person in the known universe with a motive to fake a break-in....

..... to hell with the fact that this was settled at Rudy's fast-track process without a petition to the actual evidence. (A fast-track trial is, in essence, a normal criminal process but without the trial phase.)

It is my view that even Massei did not write a motivations report beholden to the various Rudy motivations report. Massei wrote a report where the motive for this crime was Rudy's and Rudy's alone, it was his lust which caused this crime to begin; which found inexplicable participation by Knox and Sollecito. Massei was nothing if not honest that he simply could not explain why AK and RS would have been involved, even as he found them guilty.

And the irony is, that the eventual ISC "sign-off" on Rudy's guilt agrees with Judge Hellmann, yes, Judge Hellmann, that it is not up to them to state an opinion on who the other attackers were in their acceptance of the multiple attacker scenario.

Please note: the ISC sign-off on multiple attackers was a sign-off on a process with the trial-phase missing - meaning that there was no real evidence presented or challenged as if there'd been an evidentiary trial!

Even with that, the conclusion of Rudy's did not specifically name AK and RS... but if one accepts multiple attackers, one finds plenty of assertions in previous motivations reports (written with no buttressing evidence) to accept it.

So:

Nencini will accept:

1) Multiple attackers
2) if multiple attackers it is only logical that AK and RS are those people
3) motive is unimportant
4) Amanda let Rudy in as the only key-holder
5) the break-in was an obvious fake (regardless that the judicial-factness of it was the result of stipulations at Rudy's trial, not actual fact-finding)
6) Raffaele's kitchen knife is the murder weapon because it is consistent with the bed-sheet outline (therefore they can be convicted of the charge with respect to the transport of the knife)​

#6 is a result of the RIS Carabinieri at Nencini's court finding that there is no Meredith DNA on the knife, so Nencini is stuck with somehow placing that knife in the cottage. The bedsheet outline will be substituted for the DNA.

Remember, you read it here first.
 
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