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Ooops! Family Values Married Republican Caught Making Out With Another Man's Wife

The idea that keeping to agreements between people is a moral activity is equaly old. Is that backwards as well?

No, they make sense in and of themselves, and society would break down without them. The defining of certain sexual acts or orientations along moral grounds (again, provided nobody gets - without their consent - hurt) doesn't make any sense anymore, if it ever did, because it's illogical. Society wouldn't break down, for instance, if masturbation was an openly accepted practice the world over, except in the eyes of some of the religious.

In practice of course affairs are so common that we would be severly limiting the talent pool if we got rid of any politician who had one.

I don't generally care about what a politician does in his bedroom (usually I assume it's hookers and blow) as long as he doesn't try to impose his campaign-season Sunday morning morality as law on everybody else - even if it's only by paying lip service. Mainly because I think wanting to be a politician in the first place makes one unfit to be a politician. Infidelity just makes them more so.
 
Except you didn't mention safe sex until a few posts ago when you started back-pedaling. Your stance has magically transformed from "sex is linked to morality" to "safe sex = personal responsibility" (a stance which nobody but religious nuts would disagree with).

Again, that's always where the goalpost were.

Polaris said:
I'm still waiting for you to prove what's wrong with anything goes as long as no one is hurt. Not holding my breath.

Already did, you ignored it. I don't have high hopes that you will not ignore it any time soon as it conflicts with your world view.

Polaris said:
I doubt a father who drowned his daughter for sleeping with a stable-hand did so because he thought she wasn't using birth control.

Non-sequitur.


Polaris said:
You write this immediately after claiming that "hurt" is too broad and subjective WRT "anything goes"?

Yes, because you say "as long as no one". I point out, quite rightly, that someone is always hurt in an affair. Even if it isn't the ones committing the affair.

Polaris said:
Common sense also says that the sun clearly rises and sets around a fixed earth.

Sure, in an alternate reality where "no one" is 'hurt' by "anything goes".

Polaris said:
You'll have to bring some evidence to your claims about polygamy.

And if I did, what then? Would you accept that people get hurt by polygamy, or would you back pedal?

Polaris said:
The benefit of the "anything goes (as long as nobody gets hurt - which you conveniently left out)" mentality is a world that's a lot easier to live in.

Except that it's not. It's a lot easier world where people hold themselves to higher standards, stop excusing their behavior, and accept that actions have consequences. Call me crazy, but I'd rather be in that world.

Polaris said:
A world without chastity belts, foil gloves, burqas, lies to confused adolescents about blindness and mental illness, etc.

Strawman, not even remotely what I'm arguing for.

Polaris said:
Some of us have sex drives.

How good for you, do you perhaps also have self-control or do you have sex with every man, woman, child, family pet, and cactus?
 
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Never heard of a case where it didn't.

Then please explain to me how I was able to have sex several times with a lady friend of mine, with clear communication that we were not boyfriend and girlfriend, and yet stop doing so and still remain friends to this day (the better part of a decade) despite going our separate ways WRT love lives.

Come to think of it, the only heart-break I've ever experienced personally was due to unrequited love in which no sex was involved. And the relationships I've been in failed due to either incompatibility or (in one case) mental illness - bottom line is my best relationships with women are ones where we are friends who occasionally have casual sex.

So now you've heard of a case where it didn't. Feel free to handwave all you wish, though.
 
Nope. Sex =/= morality. You keep trying to avoid that.

I think what we have here is a break down in communications.

My argument isn't that the act of sex itself is immoral, it's sexual misconduct that is immoral.
 
Again, that's always where the goalpost were.

Hint: the rest of us are unable to know that unless you communicate it clearly outside your mind in a language we all understand.

Already did, you ignored it. I don't have high hopes that you will not ignore it any time soon as it conflicts with your world view.

Oh, you must mean that splendid "common sense" jibe and the rest of the bald assertions you made. Yeah, that's not proof in these parts.

Non-sequitur.

Not at all. When you equate sex with morality (as if, for instance, the dishonesty inherent in infidelity wasn't the source of the harm) as you do, the end result is horrors being committed due to irrationality. If you think that ancient/religious sexuality/morality conflation had the well-being of people in mind, you're very mistaken. It was about controlling people - controlling women in particular.

Yes, because you say "as long as no one". I point out, quite rightly, that someone is always hurt in an affair. Even if it isn't the ones committing the affair.

See my reply to Spindrift. And the replies to you that you apparently ignored in which I specifically say I don't include being unfaithful in "anything goes" - precisely because there is a victim.

Sure, in an alternate reality where "no one" is 'hurt' by "anything goes".

Still waiting to find out how there's no way to avoid someone getting hurt in "anything goes", as if there are no guidelines consenting adults can abide by.

And if I did, what then? Would you accept that people get hurt by polygamy, or would you back pedal?

Provide some evidence for once and let's find out.

Except that it's not. It's a lot easier world where people hold themselves to higher standards, stop excusing their behavior, and accept that actions have consequences. Call me crazy, but I'd rather be in that world.

There's always western Pakistan.

Strawman, not even remotely what I'm arguing for.

It's the end result of equating sex and morality, which you very obviously do.

How good for you, do you perhaps also have self-control or do you have sex with every man, woman, child, family pet, and cactus?

Are you deliberately driving this bus toward the Abandon All Hope cliff?
 
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Oh, you must mean that splendid "common sense" jibe and the rest of the bald assertions you made. Yeah, that's not proof in these parts.

It's worked for me, so far. I'm free from sexual disease, I don't have any children I don't know about, and I don't need to justify my actions to myself.

Polaris said:
See my reply to Spindrift. And the replies to you that you apparently ignored in which I specifically say I don't include being unfaithful in "anything goes" - precisely because there is a victim.

Without some standards, unfaithfulness goes under "anything goes" along with anything else that goes. Since you at least have that standard, it logically follows you don't go by "anything goes" because there is at least one thing that doesn't go. What else doesn't?

Polaris said:
Still waiting to find out how there's no way to avoid someone getting hurt in "anything goes", as if there are no guidelines consenting adults can abide by.

The only reasonable way that adults can consent is if they know, understand, and trust each other. You can't do that with perfect strangers, or at least I wouldn't.


Polaris said:
There's always western Pakistan.

So you equate Pakistan to a land where people hold themselves to higher standards, stop trying to excuse their behavior, and realize that actions have consequences? Really?

Polaris said:
It's the end result of equating sex and morality, which you very obviously do.

That's some bullet proof logic there! We should get right on repelling laws that protect people from sexual abuse and rape before we become the next Somalia!

Polaris said:
Are you deliberately driving this bus toward the Abandon All Hope cliff?

No, it's a serious question. All that falls under "anything goes" and "some of us have a sex drive", so I'll repeat the question.

Do you have any self-control or will you just have sex with any man, woman, child, family pet, and house plant?

If the answer is no then you can exhibit some self-control such as having safe sex, not having sex with more than one partner, and not having anonymous sex... As recommended by people who have a better idea about sexually transmitted disease and sexual health than you or I.
 
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Well, I see that the harlot that started all of this has been fired resigned. Nothing to see here. Not exactly an example of a GOP war on women, but kind of another example of established power's war on women.
Yeah. I'm waiting for HIM to resign. He was in the dominant position here.
 
I'm waiting for HIM to resign.

That would be the honorable thing to do, but I'm not holding my breath.

SezMe said:
He was in the dominant position here.

And that there is what makes this particular sexual misconduct especially immoral, I can't fathom how anyone could fail to see it as such. Having sexual relations with someone you have authority over is a big no-no in any line of work, except in politics apparently.

But "anything goes", right?
 
It's worked for me, so far. I'm free from sexual disease, I don't have any children I don't know about, and I don't need to justify my actions to myself.

That you know of - there is no HPV test for men. Anyway, good for you - I've successfully avoided any motorcycle accidents and helicopter crashes.

Without some standards, unfaithfulness goes under "anything goes" along with anything else that goes. Since you at least have that standard, it logically follows you don't go by "anything goes" because there is at least one thing that doesn't go. What else doesn't?

"As long as no one is hurt" is the standard the excludes things from "anything goes" - I don't know why you have such a problem accepting that. The existence of one or two unknowing significant others adds a victim to the whole affair that makes it more than just sex between two consenting adults. It's not the sex that is the issue in the way it would be in the case of a rape or a child molestation case.

The only reasonable way that adults can consent is if they know, understand, and trust each other. You can't do that with perfect strangers, or at least I wouldn't.

Bully for you - but who are you to judge if two other consenting adults (the definition expands beyond your narrowly rewritten definition)?

So you equate Pakistan to a land where people hold themselves to higher standards, stop trying to excuse their behavior, and realize that actions have consequences? Really?

I equate western Pakistan with the result - in the real world, not in Mayberry - of equating sex and morality.

That's some bullet proof logic there! We should get right on repelling laws that protect people from sexual abuse and rape before we become the next Somalia!

You do realize that repealing all the laws would lead to Somalia, right? They have no central government.

That whole statement makes no sense, in fact. If you equate sex and morality, the end result is that certain acts and orientations (between consenting adults) are considered moral and some immoral. And that leads to everything from shame to mutilation to murder to prevent those sexual acts/orientations.

No, it's a serious question. All that falls under "anything goes" and "some of us have a sex drive", so I'll repeat the question.

Do you have any self-control or will you just have sex with any man, woman, child, family pet, and house plant?

Not men, because my orientation is strictly hetero. Not children because that's both de facto and legally rape, and has a victim. Not animals and plants because I am not attracted sexually to either and in the case of animals that would qualify as cruelty in many cases. As far as women, yes - provided she's attractive and willing, I'll have sex with her, absolutely, without needing a relationship. I don't even have to know her name (but I would wear absolutely a condom - that I purchased - in that case). I wouldn't judge anybody else who did the same, with either consenting adult women or men. Frankly I wouldn't judge anybody who got it on with a plant, or an animal that would not be harmed in the process. Maybe I'd think they were a little...odd, but I would figure that's their business.

If the answer is no then you can exhibit some self-control such as having safe sex, not having sex with more than one partner, and not having anonymous sex... As recommended by people who have a better idea about sexually transmitted disease and sexual health than you or I.

Nothing wrong with having sex with more than one person, or having it anonymously. Not practicing safe sex, of course, isn't very smart.

And there you go again with inserting your own definitions - preference has nothing to do with self-control.
 
That would be the honorable thing to do, but I'm not holding my breath.



And that there is what makes this particular sexual misconduct especially immoral, I can't fathom how anyone could fail to see it as such. Having sexual relations with someone you have authority over is a big no-no in any line of work, except in politics apparently.

But "anything goes", right?

I don't have a problem with adults having sex even if one has an authority status over the other - as long as neither is married, and other people aren't shut out of the promotion process as a result, who cares?
 
That would be the honorable thing to do, but I'm not holding my breath.



And that there is what makes this particular sexual misconduct especially immoral, I can't fathom how anyone could fail to see it as such. Having sexual relations with someone you have authority over is a big no-no in any line of work, except in politics apparently.

But "anything goes", right?
Every hear of a guy named Bill Clinton?
 
The hypocrisy of using "family values" as part of a political platform while doing the opposite is my main complaint. Not keeping your word to your spouse is another.

However, some marriages are a sham where the partners despise each other and sex for them is nothing but a battleground. I can't blame either partner for looking somewhere else.
 
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You know, I used to help run a couple of local swinger's clubs. We had some well-known Republicans who attended, but none of them were heavy on the "family values" stuff, just on the "low taxes" bandwagon.

He starts the below campaign ad thusly: "I'm Vance McAlllister. US Army Veteran, job creator, and family man..."

He ends the same ad thusly: "I'm Vance McAllister. I need your help, I need your prayers..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33anc9ohklQ


Almost a month to the day after winning the election, he is sucking face on camera with his staffer. He had barely warmed his Congressional seat! His family values had all the strength and staying power of a soap bubble.

mof9c.jpg


2wrep1c.jpg


33bpyyh.jpg
 
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The hypocrisy of using "family values" as part of a political platform while doing the opposite is my main complaint. Not keeping your word to your spouse is another.

Exactly.

If a person cannot keep a sacred vow they made to their wife in the presence of their God, there is no way they can be trusted to keep any oath they made to their constituents.
 
It is time for the people of Louisiana to ponder the meaning of the word representative, and they need to ask themselves if Vance McAllister is the kind of person who represents them.

If they decide to keep McAllister around, it will reveal much about their own character.
 

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