Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Diocletus]

And how do most Italians greet each other? With a kiss and a hug - what is suspicious about that?

Given their lab practices and investigation techniques, they may want to rethink that tradition. I think that a waive, a smile, and a step backwards might be a safer greeting for those folks.

 

[acbytesla]

I don't think we know who sealed it up.

I can't help but wonder what a judge in the US would react to all of this? Would he/she be as suspicious as I am? Or would he think that these anomalies are irrelevant?

 

[Diocletus]

I can't help but wonder what a judge in the US would react to all of this? Would he/she be as suspicious as I am? Or would he think that these anomalies are irrelevant?

It would never get to that point. The knife and the clasp would both be tossed on chain-of-custody and junk science grounds. The buffer would just be further evidence of poor lab practice and non-repeatability.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

missing windbreaker; falsehoods concerning DNA contamination

I can't help but wonder what a judge in the US would react to all of this? Would he/she be as suspicious as I am? Or would he think that these anomalies are irrelevant?

Someone in Texas LE managed to lose the windbreaker in the Hank Skinner case. Gary Leiterman is still in prison in Michigan for the murder of Jane Mixer, despite stonewalling and falsehoods with respect to the DNA evidence.

 

[anglolawyer]

Someone in Texas LE managed to lose the windbreaker in the Hank Skinner case. Gary Leiterman is still in prison in Michigan for the murder of Jane Mixer, despite stonewalling and falsehoods with respect to the DNA evidence.

There seems to have been quite a bit of hanky panky in the Jeremy Bamber case over here as well.

 

[Diocletus]

It would never get to that point. The knife and the clasp would both be tossed on chain-of-custody and junk science grounds. The buffer would just be further evidence of poor lab practice and non-repeatability.

Both items have:

1. Chain of Custody Problems (bag opened/46 days)
2. Evidence of contamination (multiple profiles/food matter and no blood)
3. Unrepeatability (consumption/destruction)
4. Improper lab practice
5. Insufficient documentation

 

[acbytesla]

Someone in Texas LE managed to lose the windbreaker in the Hank Skinner case. Gary Leiterman is still in prison in Michigan for the murder of Jane Mixer, despite stonewalling and falsehoods with respect to the DNA evidence.

Yea, I think a lot depends on the jurisdiction. There have been plenty of hanky panky that has happened in lots of US cases. Still can't be worse that Italy or even worse Japan. Japan's courts have a 99 percent conviction rate, and their police is notorious for coercing confessions.

 

[Bill Williams]

Really ?
How would this 'evidence' be introduced.

Oh thats right – RS could have taken the stand and testified that he hugged the murder victim or fondled her underwear that last day.
Probably after he explained how her DNA got on his knife – the 'pricking' story


I wonder why his lawyers didn't go for that - stoopid Italians

LOL - yes, of course, he would have been laughed out of court. Very droll. Just like what actually happened to Stefanoni when her forensic methods were dissected by the independent experts.

Perhaps platonov might offer an opinion on Stefanoni's work, and whether or not she's to be believed that she never ever had a case of contamination in her lab. Ever.

Platonov might also wish to offer an estimate for Time of Death, and fit other known evidence around it.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

discovery of DNA results and case reviews

"There are no generally accepted thresholds for how high peaks must be to qualify as a "true allele." Applied Biosystems, Inc., which sells the most widely used system for STR typing (the ABI Prism 310 Genetic Analyzer(tm) with the ProfilerPlus(tm) system) recommends a peak-height threshold of 150 RFU, saying that peaks below this level must be interpreted with caution. However, many crime laboratories that use the ABI system have set lower thresholds (down to 40 RFU in some instances). And crime laboratories sometimes apply their standards in an inconsistent manner from case to case or even within a single case. Hence, a defendant may be convicted in one case based on "peaks" that would not be counted in another case, or by another lab. And in some cases there may be unreported peaks, just below the threshold, that would change the interpretation of the case if considered.

Finding and evaluating low-level peaks can be difficult because labs can set their analytic software to ignore peaks below a specified level and can print out electropherograms in a manner that fails to identify low-level alleles. The best way to assess low-level alleles is to obtain copies of the electronic data files produced by the genetic analyzer and have them re-analyzed by an expert who has access to the analytic software." link.

 

[Grinder]

Is Amanda Knox extraditable from the United States to Italy? -

Many here will like the conclusion and it's from Oxford

 

[acbytesla]

Is Amanda extraditable?

I just read a law professor's opinion about whether or not Amanda is extraditable. He says the law is quite unclear as it pertains to this case.

Here is the link

His conclusion is that she will not be extradited.

EXTRADITION FROM THE UNITED STATES TO ITALY

The 1983 U.S.–Italy Extradition Treaty states in article VI that extradition is not available in cases where the requested person has been acquitted or convicted of the “same acts” (in the English text) and the “same facts” (in the Italian text). Treaty interpretation needs to ascertain the intentions of the parties by relying on the plain language and meaning of the words. Italy’s law prohibiting ne bis in idem specifically uses the words stessi fatti, which are the same words used in the Italian version of article VI, meaning “same facts.” Because fatti, or “facts,” may include multiple acts, the Second Circuit Court of Appeals applied the test of “same conduct” in Sindona v. Grant, citing international extradition in US law and practice, based on this writer’s analysis.
Whatever the interpretation of article VI may be—“same act,” “same facts,” or the broader “same conduct”—Amanda Knox would not be extraditable to Italy should Italy seek her extradition because she was retried for the same acts, the same facts, and the same conduct. Her case was reviewed three times with different outcomes even though she was not actually tried three times. In light of the jurisprudence of the various circuits on this issue, it is unlikely that extradition would be granted.
The US Supreme Court can also make a constitutional determination under the Fifth Amendment of the applicability of double jeopardy to extradition cases, particularly with respect to a requesting state’s right to keep on reviewing its request for the same acts or facts in the hope of obtaining a conviction. But, no such interpretation was given to the Fifth Amendment in any extradition case to date. Surprising as it may be, neither the Supreme Court nor any Circuit Court has yet held that the Fifth Amendment’s “double jeopardy” provision applies to extradition. So far, double jeopardy defenses have been dealt with as they arise under the applicable treaty.
Conclusion: Amanda Knox’s extradition from the United States to Italy under existing jurisprudence is not likely.
- See more at: http://blog.oup.com/2014/04/is-aman...-united-states-to-italy/#sthash.Nbtft3Z2.dpuf

 

[acbytesla]

Is Amanda Knox extraditable from the United States to Italy? -

Many here will like the conclusion and it's from Oxford

You ninja'd me.

 

[Sonia]

I certainly hope the police report is added to the correct wiki.

Do the police in Perugia hand out police reports to anyone who asks? If so, it would be easy to order a copy.

Btw, Feinstein also interviewed the guard in Perugia and offered up the tape IIRC or went back and checked facts when questioned by commenters.

Feinstein got very testy when the facts in her story (dates and such) were questioned, and she added some additional detail after speaking to her informant again, but nothing she added truly resolved the contradictions. It was clear she'd never considered fact-checking her story before. As a UK tabloid journalist, she seemed surprised that anyone wanted to check the details of what she wrote. Her usual audience just swallows a story whole for its emotional effects and never picks apart the details.

I particularly like Nina's comment about Clinton during the Impeachment. Look it up for a good chuckle.

"I would be happy to give [Clinton] a blowjob just to thank him for keeping abortion legal. I think American women should be lining up with their presidential kneepads on to show their gratitude for keeping the theocracy off our backs." - Nina Burleigh

I'm not laughing. I hope it won't shock you terribly if I agree with her sentiment. Consider what is happening now to women's reproductive rights in Texas and other states which are doing their best to abolish abortion in defiance of Roe v Wade.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/us/texas-abortion-providers-lawsuit.html?_r=0

Who will keep the theocracy off women's backs now? Signed, Ofcharles.

 

[Desert Fox]

Is Amanda Knox extraditable from the United States to Italy? -

Many here will like the conclusion and it's from Oxford

If I am understanding here as well, the Italian court violated Italian law?

 

[Welshman]

The wiki by Edward McCall was recently discussed on this board. This wiki was riddled with falsehoods and the members of IIP had to create a wiki to counter it. A common pattern among those who argue for guilt is lying. The guilters spread lies on Amazon reviews and the comments sections of articles about the case eg bleach was purchased, mixed blood, a clean up in Meredith's room, female thumbprints on Meredith's neck. John Kercher's book Meredith was riddled with lies. The BBC three documentary was full of false information. Do you feel that if the case for guilt can not be argued without resorting to lying, this indicates a lack of evidence and a weak case against Amanda and Raffaele?

 

[Diocletus]

I just read a law professor's opinion about whether or not Amanda is extraditable. He says the law is quite unclear as it pertains to this case.

Here is the link

His conclusion is that she will not be extradited.

I don't know who this dude is, but he's written a load of books, including a treatise on extradition. Seems pretty heavyweight.

Probably not as heavyweight as the Parisian math lady, though, who I understand is working on a Beynsian proof for why its mathematically certain that Amanda Knox will be extradited.

 

[Diocletus]

Who will keep the theocracy off women's backs now?

I don't really know . . . but blowjobs might be part of the answer.

 

[Grinder]

Do the police in Perugia hand out police reports to anyone who asks? If so, it would be easy to order a copy.

Feinstein got very testy when the facts in her story (dates and such) were questioned, and she added some additional detail after speaking to her informant again, but nothing she added truly resolved the contradictions. It was clear she'd never considered fact-checking her story before. As a UK tabloid journalist, she seemed surprised that anyone wanted to check the details of what she wrote. Her usual audience just swallows a story whole for its emotional effects and never picks apart the details.

"I would be happy to give [Clinton] a blowjob just to thank him for keeping abortion legal. I think American women should be lining up with their presidential kneepads on to show their gratitude for keeping the theocracy off our backs." - Nina Burleigh

I'm not laughing. I hope it won't shock you terribly if I agree with her sentiment. Consider what is happening now to women's reproductive rights in Texas and other states which are doing their best to abolish abortion in defiance of Roe v Wade.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/us/texas-abortion-providers-lawsuit.html?_r=0

Who will keep the theocracy off women's backs now? Signed, Ofcharles.

I agree with her and think it was funny.

Nina's response to Tesla was also a little testy. The guard provided something Amanda had made for her - translation of a Beatles' song IIRC. There is no doubt that the woman was a guard at the prison.

It is odd that no one has the police report or the transcript of the "case closed" presser.

 

[acbytesla]

I agree with her and think it was funny.

Nina's response to Tesla was also a little testy. The guard provided something Amanda had made for her - translation of a Beatles' song IIRC. There is no doubt that the woman was a guard at the prison.

It is odd that no one has the police report or the transcript of the "case closed" presser.

I don't doubt that a guard or a prisoner had something "negative" to say about Amanda. It's prison for god sake. Hell, go to any country club and the members will go on and on about other members or golf pros they hate. And these are the wealthiest and best educated people out there. People see the world through their own eyes and ears. Mis-communications and misunderstandings happen all the time.

Most of what what the guard said, Amanda said in her book. She had a very hard time getting along with some of the other prisoners and so she tried to bury herself in her books. She knew that some of the prisoners were jealous of her and treated her badly because of it. She also said she didn't trust anyone in the prison with exception of two cell mates and the priest.

The guard said Amanda didn't seem anxious to see her family. Amanda denied this but said she had very mixed feelings about them being there and going so deep in debt.

But the reality is what those people thought of Amanda offered no probative value to the case.

 

[Dan O.]

.

I am not sure if anyone has noticed this before, but I think there is a viable source of Raffaele's DNA less than a centimeter from the bra clasp when it was found on Dec 18. That lamp cord that goes right by the bra clasp, and may well have been touching the bra clasp before the stuff on top of it was moved out of the way, is the chord from Amanda's lamp.

You have to go back in the archives more than 4 years to find where this was first discussed. Link from April 2010