Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Sonia]

The fact that she was in her dressing gown and before she got dressed is particularly relevant - she could have touched, hugged or kissed Raffaele to say hello/goodbye, moments before putting on her bra - she could even have been holding clothes and underwear whilst they were all in the kitchen. I don't understand why this hasn't been discussed at trial.

It's maddening, isn't it? And if these students passed a joint among themselves that holiday morning, that would be another chance for his DNA to transfer to her fingers moments before she put on her bra.

Was this morning visit before Meredith dressed for her day really never discussed at all in the courtroom vis à vis DNA?

 

[acbytesla]

It's maddening, isn't it? And if these students passed a joint among themselves that holiday morning, that would be another chance for his DNA to transfer to her fingers moments before she put on her bra.

Was this morning visit before Meredith dressed for her day really never discussed at all in the courtroom vis à vis DNA?

Far more important is the 46 days of being kicked around and the very sloppy procedures of Stefanoni's team. If their collection procedures were so incredibly poor in front of a video camera and they were atrocious. How bad were they when the camera was not on them? If you saw the video and the images of before and then 46 days later, you would get an idea of just how unprofessional this group was.

Their supreme court seem to insist that the defense prove the very moment of contamination. Since one cannot see DNA, this is a physical impossibility.
What one can see is their poor procedures and the result of those poor procedures with the alleles of 4 other males. Something stinks in Denmark....we're just not sure where it originates.

 

[anglolawyer]

Well all the information is there in Burleigh's chapter notes if the defense wants to pursue it.

From her notes for chapter 9:




Burleigh, Nina (2011-08-02). The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (p. 324). Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Sounds like Perugia carabiniere Francesco Zampa is the go-to man for questions about the gold watch in Guede's possession.

Burleigh's painstaking research is evident in the detail of her work. Here she describes the effort she put into the research:



Burleigh, Nina (2011-08-02). The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (pp. 319-320). Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

I hope she told Biscotti to get stuffed. Anybody can write to anybody else without a money-grubbing lawyer's permission. Burleigh is a good source for the watch lady (and other things).

 

[NancyS]

Far more important is the 46 days of being kicked around and the very sloppy procedures of Stefanoni's team. If their collection procedures were so incredibly poor in front of a video camera and they were atrocious. How bad were they when the camera was not on them? If you saw the video and the images of before and then 46 days later, you would get an idea of just how unprofessional this group was.

Their supreme court seem to insist that the defense prove the very moment of contamination. Since one cannot see DNA, this is a physical impossibility.
What one can see is their poor procedures and the result of those poor procedures with the alleles of 4 other males. Something stinks in Denmark....we're just not sure where it originates.

I agree that this is probably more important, but I think it is also harder for the general public to understand. Whereas hammering home that Raffaele spent time with Meredith shortly before she dressed is fairly easy for anyone to understand

 

[platonov]

The fact that she was in her dressing gown and before she got dressed is particularly relevant - she could have touched, hugged or kissed Raffaele to say hello/goodbye, moments before putting on her bra - she could even have been holding clothes and underwear whilst they were all in the kitchen. I don't understand why this hasn't been discussed at trial

It's maddening, isn't it? And if these students passed a joint among themselves that holiday morning, that would be another chance for his DNA to transfer to her fingers moments before she put on her bra.

Was this morning visit before Meredith dressed for her day really never discussed at all in the courtroom vis à vis DNA?

Really ?
How would this 'evidence' be introduced.

Oh thats right – RS could have taken the stand and testified that he hugged the murder victim or fondled her underwear that last day.
Probably after he explained how her DNA got on his knife – the 'pricking' story


I wonder why his lawyers didn't go for that - stoopid Italians

 

[anglolawyer]

Really ?
How would this 'evidence' be introduced.

Oh thats right – RS could have taken the stand and testified that he hugged the murder victim or fondled her underwear that last day.
Probably after he explained how her DNA got on his knife – the 'pricking' story


I wonder why his lawyers didn't go for that - stoopid Italians

LOL - yes, of course, he would have been laughed out of court. Very droll. Just like what actually happened to Stefanoni when her forensic methods were dissected by the independent experts.

 

[acbytesla]

I agree that this is probably more important, but I think it is also harder for the general public to understand. Whereas hammering home that Raffaele spent time with Meredith shortly before she dressed is fairly easy for anyone to understand

That's true. Raffaele spent almost the entire day of November 1st in the cottage. But still, the DNA was found on the bra clasp in Meredith's bedroom. a very intimate piece of clothing, not in the living room Believe me, that point is firmly in the mind of many people. We'll never know how many surfaces Raffaele touched, but we know that the DNA collection team trashed the place, clothes and belongings were scattered everywhere and the crime scene wasn't secure for more than a month. The collection team seemingly never changed gloves contrary to their insistence that they did often.

They probably unknowingly encountered lots of Raffaele's DNA at the cottage. We'll never know how it was transferred to the bra clasp.

Personally, I think Raffaele's DNA was planted on the bra clasp. That sounds absurd, but I can't get over that the bra clasp showed up just when they discovered that Raffaele's shoes didn't match the bloody shoe prints in the cottage. Why did they go back to the cottage? Their case against Raffaele and in turn against Amanda was falling apart and they needed some evidence to implicate Raffaele. Because at this point they had none

We will never know how that DNA got there, but it simply doesn't make sense.

 

[Samson]

That's true. Raffaele spent almost the entire day of November 1st in the cottage. But still, the DNA was found on the bra clasp in Meredith's bedroom. a very intimate piece of clothing, not in the living room Believe me, that point is firmly in the mind of many people. We'll never know how many surfaces Raffaele touched, but we know that the DNA collection team trashed the place, clothes and belongings were scattered everywhere and the crime scene wasn't secure for more than a month. The collection team seemingly never changed gloves contrary to their insistence that they did often.

They probably unknowingly encountered lots of Raffaele's DNA at the cottage. We'll never know how it was transferred to the bra clasp.

Personally, I think Raffaele's DNA was planted on the bra clasp. That sounds absurd, but I can't get over that the bra clasp showed up just when they discovered that Raffaele's shoes didn't match the bloody shoe prints in the cottage. Why did they go back to the cottage? Their case against Raffaele and in turn against Amanda was falling apart and they needed some evidence to implicate Raffaele. Because at this point they had none

We will never know how that DNA got there, but it simply doesn't make sense.

I agree. I have posted this several times, and do so because a specific similar precedent helps my mind engage and understand.

A Royal Commission of Inquiry was established, headed by retired New South Wales Justice Robert Taylor. This declared Thomas to have been wrongfully charged and convicted, and found that among other improprieties, police had planted a .22 rifle cartridge case in the garden of the house where the murders were committed. The case was found four months and ten days after the area had already been subjected to one of the most intensive police searches ever undertaken. The cartridge case was said to have come from a rifle belonging to Thomas. However, the police tested only 64 rifles in an area where this weapon was common and found that two – including the one belonging to Thomas – could have fired the cartridge case found in the garden. This was the link to the deaths of the Crewes although it was later admitted that the case was "clean" and uncorroded when found. As such, the condition of the case was inconsistent with having lain in the garden, exposed to weather and dirt for more than four months.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Amanda posted English translation of Donnino's testimony on her website, if anyone is interested:

http://www.amandaknox.com/the-meredith-kercher-murder/people/anna-donnino/

Donnino was the translator/"mediator" working on Amanda during the interrogation night.

 

[NancyS]

Really ?
How would this 'evidence' be introduced.

Oh thats right – RS could have taken the stand and testified that he hugged the murder victim or fondled her underwear that last day.
Probably after he explained how her DNA got on his knife – the 'pricking' story


I wonder why his lawyers didn't go for that - stoopid Italians

And how do most Italians greet each other? With a kiss and a hug - what is suspicious about that?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

no one could be that stupid

They probably unknowingly encountered lots of Raffaele's DNA at the cottage. We'll never know how it was transferred to the bra clasp.

Personally, I think Raffaele's DNA was planted on the bra clasp. That sounds absurd, but I can't get over that the bra clasp showed up just when they discovered that Raffaele's shoes didn't match the bloody shoe prints in the cottage. Why did they go back to the cottage? Their case against Raffaele and in turn against Amanda was falling apart and they needed some evidence to implicate Raffaele. Because at this point they had none

We will never know how that DNA got there, but it simply doesn't make sense.

acbytesla,

Whoever stored the clasp in a sealed tube in the presence of extraction buffer tampered with the clasp.

 

[Diocletus]

We will never know how that DNA got there, but it simply doesn't make sense.

It got on there the same way all those other guys' DNA got on there.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

unless 3-5 men took part in the attack, the clasp was contaminated

It got on there the same way all those other guys' DNA got on there.

Exactly. It was contaminated by the van Oorshot definition. No need to specify the route IMO.

 

[Diocletus]

I wrote and sent several letters each to members of the Kercher family and to the young women who were Meredith’s friends in Perugia and who testified at the trial . I also sent e-mails to those whose addresses were available. None of them ever responded, leading me reluctantly to rely solely on published material and trial testimony about Meredith Kercher’s personality and history.

These British girls were bad people. I don't care for them.

 

[Diocletus]

Well, now that the Supreme Court has decided McCutcheon (striking down aggregate limits on political contributions), one of the next big decisions is going to be Bond v. US. In that case, the Supreme Court may well tell us something about whether the government can enter into a treaty that interferes with other rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

Can the government enter into a treaty that allows it to snatch a US citizen off the streets at the request of a foreign government?

Can the government do so in the absence of a showing of probable cause?

Can the government do so if the person is more probably than not innocent?

 

[acbytesla]

acbytesla,

Whoever stored the clasp in a sealed tube in the presence of extraction buffer tampered with the clasp.

Could that be Stefanoni????

 

[Grinder]

There must be an explanation but it won't turn out to be that it didn't happen. The police were aware of it btw. The old lady reported it. Acbytesla referenced that when quoting Burleigh's email.

I certainly hope the police report is added to the correct wiki.

Btw, Feinstein also interviewed the guard in Perugia and offered up the tape IIRC or went back and checked facts when questioned by commenters. IIRC you were on that comment thread using your real name.

I also hope the video of the press conference announcing case closed is found and posted with a translation on the wiki.

Is there any writer of one of these books that hasn't claimed to have researched it fully?

I particularly like Nina's comment about Clinton during the Impeachment. Look it up for a good chuckle.

 

[Desert Fox]

These British girls were bad people. I don't care for them.

A little in their defense is that they may want to get as far from this case as possible. It is poisonous.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

it's a mystery

Could that be Stefanoni????

I don't think we know who sealed it up.

 

[acbytesla]

I certainly hope the police report is added to the correct wiki.

Btw, Feinstein also interviewed the guard in Perugia and offered up the tape IIRC or went back and checked facts when questioned by commenters. IIRC you were on that comment thread using your real name.

I also hope the video of the press conference announcing case closed is found and posted with a translation on the wiki.

Is there any writer of one of these books that hasn't claimed to have researched it fully?

I particularly like Nina's comment about Clinton during the Impeachment. Look it up for a good chuckle.

Nina doesn't have the police report. She said that in her long transcript of her interview with Ms. Diaz read directly from the police report to her.