• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Merged Global Warming Discussion II: Heated Conversation

Status
Not open for further replies.
Last year pretty much the entire NH experienced persisting cold weather,

By last year you mean what?? winter of 2012/2013

or 2013/2014

Alaska has set all kinds of records for heat as did Siberia recently.

Canada is an astonishing 3.6 degrees C above long term winter average in the last 66 years.

Certain the Arctic Dipole and now a wavering jet stream has caused crazy gradients.
On poor sod in Kentucky saw a 60+ F degree drop in a few hours.
 
Thanks Trakar.

By last year you mean what?? winter of 2012/2013

or 2013/2014

Alaska has set all kinds of records for heat as did Siberia recently.

Canada is an astonishing 3.6 degrees C above long term winter average in the last 66 years.

Certain the Arctic Dipole and now a wavering jet stream has caused crazy gradients.
On poor sod in Kentucky saw a 60+ F degree drop in a few hours.

I meant the winter (and early spring) of 2012/2013.
 
Thanks Trakar.

No trilbble at all!

Here are a few, more involved, sources that you might find of some use. If there are any issues and you'd like to discuss, to make sure that you are understanding and integrating the information properly, feel free to ask any questions you might have or paraphrase section of the articles, and we all will be happy to discuss our impressions and talk about the findings to make everyone feel comfortable with their take-away.


Climate extremes and the role of dynamics
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3619291/

excerpts:

...To understand Rossby waves, one has to understand the subtle noninertial effects that the rotation of the Earth about its axis has on the atmosphere. Most important are the apparent Coriolis “forces” that influence the horizontal movement of an air parcel, for example, in the jet stream. These Coriolis effects are strongest at the poles and weakest at the equator. As a result of this gradient with latitude, the Coriolis effect can act as a restoring force on air parcels that are displaced north or south of their “normal” latitude, and hence lead to an oscillation. The key effects, which can systematically displace such air parcels north or south, are associated with the flow of air over big mountain ranges like the Rockies or Himalaya, or differential heating by continental/ocean temperature contrasts (because these systematic forcing effects are so much stronger in the Northern Hemisphere, so too are quasistationary Rossby wave amplitudes).

Our climate system is not just a static thermodynamic system, it is a fluid dynamical system, and the effects of dynamics (especially on a rotating planet) can often be counterintuitive...

...When quasistationary Rossby waves in the upper troposphere reach large amplitudes, then at some longitudes the surface weather will be anomalously warm. However, at other longitudes the surface weather will be anomalously cool. Hence, if climate change leads to an increased likelihood of wave 6–8 resonance, then certain places (and not always the same places from one year to the next) will experience negative temperature anomalies. This finding is something the public (and the “climate sceptic” community) often find hard to understand: How can global warming lead to local cooling? The point is that our climate system is not just a static thermodynamic system, it is a fluid dynamical system, and the effects of dynamics (especially on a rotating planet) can often be counterintuitive. Anyone doubting this should study the humble gyroscope, in particular how it responds to external forcing!...

Atmospheric science: Tug of war on the jet stream
http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/v1/n1/full/nclimate1065.html

...Over about the past 30 years, depletion of the ozone layer over Antarctica has had a greater effect on climate in the Southern Hemisphere than rising greenhouse-gas concentrations, causing a polewards shift of wind and precipitation patterns. Since about 2000, the so-called ozone hole has stopped enlarging and it is expected to close completely sometime after the middle of the century, in response to a ban on the production and use of ozone-depleting substances under the Montreal Protocol. This raises the question of whether wind and precipitation patterns will revert to their pre-ozone-hole conditions as the ozone layer recovers. Two new studies — one by Polvani and colleagues1 in Geophysical Research Letters and the other by McLandress and colleagues2 in Journal of Climate — show that as the ozone hole closes, increasing greenhouse-gas concentrations will counter the effects of ozone recovery, preventing atmospheric circulation from returning to 'normal'...

...The human-induced increase in greenhouse-gas concentrations is expected to have a similar effect as Antarctic ozone depletion on the location of the Southern Hemisphere jet stream and the Hadley-cell boundary7. During the period from 1960 to 2000 these two human-induced climate drivers joined forces, causing a polewards shift of the summertime mid-latitude jet stream in the Southern Hemisphere on the order of about 230 to 300 km, with ozone depletion being the dominant force2, 4. While greenhouse-gas concentrations are anticipated to continue rising over coming decades, the Antarctic ozone hole is expected to close, so these two factors will begin to exert competing influences on the location of the westerly jet and dry zones (Fig. 1). The 'winner' of this competition has not yet been determined...

...Thus, the recovery of the ozone hole is expected to cancel out changes in climate conditions due to increasing greenhouse-gas concentrations over the coming decades. Importantly, however, both studies also indicate that these cancellations are a summertime event. During other seasons, when greenhouse-gas forcing has no competition from ozone forcing, the jet stream and Hadley-cell boundary are expected to shift towards the South Pole...

The following article is based upon this paper ("Climate science: Vast costs of Arctic change." Nature, 2013; 499 (7459): 401 DOI: 10.1038/499401a ). Unfortunately, I know of no open-source for this paper, but if you have access to a nearby University library I'd encourage you to go read the actual paper.

The article: "Cost of Arctic methane release could be 'size of global economy', experts warn" - link: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130724134256.htm

enjoy!
 
Last edited:
I meant the winter (and early spring) of 2012/2013.
When it got cold in the UK in March last year it was very warm in Greenland. Every loop south in the NH jet-stream has to be matched by a loop north to conserve angular momentum (which is, of course, a requirement :)). So this year the cold in the Eastern US has been matched by warmth in the Bering Sea and Alaska.

We know pretty well (using an inclusive "we") how jet-streams operate, but how they'll change with AGW is something I'm hanging on the answer to. Here in South Wales I feel very much in the firing-line.
 
Rush Limbaugh went off on man made global warming today, once again. He thinks it`s bulloney. He thinks its a money grab for scientists. He believes that you just cant snip out some relatively small block of time to analyze the data, basically. That climate has had periods of change for eons.
I also believe Sean Hannity feels this way as well. These are the #1 and #2 broadcasters across our airwaves influencing people who take what these two guys say as gospel.
So you guys here who sound knowledgeable on AGW, are basically preaching to your own choir, while millions of Limbaugh and Hannity followers probably believe them.
Similar to say millions listening to a Jerry Falwell, while scientists are trying to school people on evolution.
 
Rush Limbaugh went off on man made global warming today, once again. He thinks it`s bulloney. He thinks its a money grab for scientists. He believes that you just cant snip out some relatively small block of time to analyze the data, basically. That climate has had periods of change for eons.
I also believe Sean Hannity feels this way as well. These are the #1 and #2 broadcasters across our airwaves influencing people who take what these two guys say as gospel.
So you guys here who sound knowledgeable on AGW, are basically preaching to your own choir, while millions of Limbaugh and Hannity followers probably believe them.
Similar to say millions listening to a Jerry Falwell, while scientists are trying to school people on evolution.

Reality isn't determined by popularity.
 
Cccaptain Sir..an iceberg ahead

are aport.....

EU emissions cuts could herald climate turning point

09:00 25 March 2014 by Catherine Brahic
For similar stories, visit the Climate Change Topic Guide

The European Union is considering steep cuts in greenhouse gas emissions. The EU only accounts for a fraction of total global emissions, but its actions could nevertheless have a big impact on future warming.

Last week, the European Council met to discuss a proposal to cut greenhouse gas emissions by 40 per cent, relative to 1990 levels, by 2030. A new study suggests such a strong signal from Europe could help avoid dangerous climate change – if other countries follow suit.

The European Union is on track to meet its existing target, a 20 per cent emissions cut by 2020. The final decision on the 40 per cent target will not be made until October. But for now the person in charge – the EU's commissioner for climate action, Connie Hedegaard – is maintaining a determinedly positive face.

http://www.newscientist.com/article...erald-climate-turning-point.html#.UzLtjNzjP3w
 
Tribbles started off as cute and everybody wanted one. Then they became a serious problem, leading to the disaster of them eating all the wheat seeds.

Then it turned out the wheat was poisoned, and they saved the colony from a disaster.

So tribbles were liked, then hated, then praised for saving the day. (but they all died doing so)

So tribbles are like global warming.

And also they responded badly to the evil alien, who was in disguise.
 
Consequences

Invasive species in waterways on rise due to climate change
Date:
March 26, 2014
Source:
Queen's University, Belfast
Summary:

One of the most serious threats to global biodiversity and the leisure and tourism industries is set to increase with climate change according to new research. Researchers have found that certain invasive weeds, which have previously been killed off by low winter temperatures, are set to thrive as global temperatures increase.
more
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/03/140326101547.htm
 
Researchers have found that certain invasive weeds, which have previously been killed off by low winter temperatures, are set to thrive as global temperatures increase.
Research must be old.
 
Tribbles started off as cute and everybody wanted one. Then they became a serious problem, leading to the disaster of them eating all the wheat seeds.

Then it turned out the wheat was poisoned, and they saved the colony from a disaster.

So tribbles were liked, then hated, then praised for saving the day. (but they all died doing so)

So tribbles are like global warming.

And also they responded badly to the evil alien, who was in disguise.

These fantasies don't sound much different than any of the other fantasies those who deny the validity and impacts climate science spout with increasing frequency. It is little wonder that no one takes them seriously anymore.
 
Reality isn't determined by popularity.

Of course not. But isn`t hearing what i posted above, like a scratch you have to itch? How about calling up his radio show and setting him straight? If you might consider it, let me know, so i can tune in and listen. Lol.
 
and nasty bite ..sort of like koalas.....;)
••••

Limabaugh is a plague on humanity along with most of the Faux News clowns.
Repugly mouth.

•••

I figured such a report would eat at the craw. :sdl:
Isn`t it sad that so many people take in stuff they say as gospel?
 
Of course not. But isn`t hearing what i posted above, like a scratch you have to itch? How about calling up his radio show and setting him straight? If you might consider it, let me know, so i can tune in and listen. Lol.

To what end? These people are not about dealing with reality, they are about trying to mould facts and data to support their preferred political rhetoric, and dismissing or ignoring the facts and data that will not conform to their very narrow perceptions of what reality should be.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom