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Billion Dollar, Telexfree internet ponzi scam set to break soon

stewgreenUK

Student
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
45
Hi, Here in the island of Madeira about 15-20% of the population have neen taken in by a pyramid scam called Telexfree.
- One minute after someone showed me I said "look you can you see it's too good to be true, it seems to me it's just like the pyramid scam in Albania"

..but there is some strange psychology going on as if people are brainwashed and in a cult
1. They accept the first answer they get from the organisers e.g. "No it's not a pyramid it's MLM andthe products are our VOIP service and selling internet advertising"
but that does not bear any second questioning, people only buy the VOIP cos it's a requirement to get into the money making scheme, no one actually uses it..even in their own conferences Telexfree people just use Skype.

2. since internet advertising costs nothing it's obviosly just a fake job. But it does bring up an interesting distraction in that when you search in Portuguese all you get is propaganda cos of all the advert pages the participants have created ..However the Wikipedia page is legit ..and it clearly explains it's a scam.
3. The third interesting bit is that it is extremely slow burn, the people at the top aren't creaming off too much so they are able to keep it going.
- And that's the thing people can see their neighbours are making money. My friend told me I put in $15,000 now after 1 year I have $50,000.
- The people don't see themselves are losing. They put in then the rule is that they have to wait 3 months before they can make profits. So that first money is what the organisers use to pay the people further upthe pyramid. Then by keeping the hype going, by the time the 3 months are up enough new people have come into the scheme they are able to pay the people who joined 3 months ago. (of course when it stops that last 3 months batch of people won't get their money and will knock on the doors of their friends who introduced them and have profited)

- It was banned in Brazil more than 1 year ago
- It's run out of a PO box office in Massachutsetts and US MA, "Secretary of State William Galvin's office is investigating a Marlborough-based telephone marketing company that has already been banned in Brazil for running a pyramid scheme." ..and they linked the investigation to another scheme WCM777 they already closed down.
.. now the scheme is floundering and has drastically cut profits paid out and formally announced you can't profit unlçess you bring new members.

It won't be long it falls ..I think it's a fascinating story for journalists like Jon Ronson.

more on my web http://stewgreen.com/irrational_world/rational97telexfree_pyramid.htm
and here http://stewgreen.com/irrational_world/rational97telexfree_pyramidb.htm
 
It always amazes me how people fall for this repeatedly. Of course if you have no conscience and get in early you might make money, but that only accounts for a few of the people who buy in.

There was one on the Isle of Wight some years ago called "women empowering women", and the idea was to raise capital for women to start their own small businesses or something like that. There aren't that many people on the Isle of Wight - a lot fewer than on Madeira! (ETA: the population was 125,000 at the time.) Any fool could see it was going to be in trouble very very quickly - as indeed happened.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2001/jul/07/personalfinancenews.jobsandmoney
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1298197.stm
http://www.economist.com/node/691213
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1312667/Pyramid-sellers-target-women.html
http://duckonabike.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/the-gift-that-stopped-giving-the-%E2%80%9Cwomen-empowering-women%E2%80%9D-pyramid-scheme/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...ousands-at-pyramid-scheme-parties-678594.html
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Women...me:+I+lost+all+of+my+pounds+3,000.-a076378814

What sticks in my mind was a TV interview where the presenter was asking the searching arithmetical questions about viability, and the people involved were spouting idealistic propaganda and accusing anyone who doubted them of sexism and being anti-women. I mean it's not rocket science.

And why start on an island where the limitations are more than usually obvious?

Rolfe.
 
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It always amazes me how people fall for this repeatedly. Of course if you have no conscience and get in early you might make money, but that only accounts for a few of the people who buy in.
True, you'd really need inside knowledge to be sure you'd make money.

There was one on the Isle of Wight some years ago called "women empowering women", and the idea was to raise capital for women to start their own small businesses or something like that. There aren't that many people on the Isle of Wight. Any fool could see it was going to be in trouble very very quickly - as indeed happened.
:rolleyes: I remember something like this in the US when I was visiting.

What sticks in my mind was a TV interview where the presenter was asking the searching arithmetical questions about viability, and the people involved were spouting idealistic propaganda and accusing anyone who doubted them of sexism and being anti-women.
Ah yes, if you ask questions you're a terrible person, I've seen that too.
I think that's one of the reasons that quasi-religious scams of this kind are successful, the victims are used to believing nonsense without asking awkward questions.


ETA: I see the sacm his reached the UK, at least the Channel Islands.
 
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The Channel Islands aren't part of the UK though.

What is is about islands in this context?

Rolfe.
 
Islands, or "Island Nations" with lower levels of policing? Does Madeira have an FCC? SEC? If so, is it one guy at a desk, who the promoters have convinced that they are only allowing the people of your locality to reap the profits of world commerce ?
 
The Channel Islands aren't part of the UK though.

What is is about islands in this context?

Rolfe.
Sorry, Crown Dependency.............. :o

I don't know specifically why, but the States of Jersey Police seem to think it's due to the local Madeiran community being targeted, and spreading from there. Here is the Jersey police fraud warning, issued last month. Apparently a recruitment seminar was canceled soon after this was issued.
This also appeared in the local press.
 
Islands, or "Island Nations" with lower levels of policing? Does Madeira have an FCC? SEC? If so, is it one guy at a desk, who the promoters have convinced that they are only allowing the people of your locality to reap the profits of world commerce ?


The Isle of Wight is just a normal part of England though. And the scheme being on the island made it very easy to show how quickly it would collapse. But people still fell for it in their droves.

I think that eposide was when I really realised how innumerate a lot of people really are.

Rolfe.
 
It always amazes me how people fall for this repeatedly. Of course if you have no conscience and get in early you might make money, but that only accounts for a few of the people who buy in.

There was one on the Isle of Wight some years ago called "women empowering women", and the idea was to raise capital for women to start their own small businesses or something like that. There aren't that many people on the Isle of Wight - a lot fewer than on Madeira! (ETA: the population was 125,000 at the time.) Any fool could see it was going to be in trouble very very quickly - as indeed happened.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2001/jul/07/personalfinancenews.jobsandmoney
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1298197.stm
http://www.economist.com/node/691213
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1312667/Pyramid-sellers-target-women.html
http://duckonabike.wordpress.com/20...-the-“women-empowering-women”-pyramid-scheme/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...ousands-at-pyramid-scheme-parties-678594.html
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Women...me:+I+lost+all+of+my+pounds+3,000.-a076378814

What sticks in my mind was a TV interview where the presenter was asking the searching arithmetical questions about viability, and the people involved were spouting idealistic propaganda and accusing anyone who doubted them of sexism and being anti-women. I mean it's not rocket science.

And why start on an island where the limitations are more than usually obvious?

Rolfe.

But arithmetic is a male tool of oppression.
 
Anyone know, what the reasoning biases here are called?

I see some strange psychological effects.
Rather than use pure reason people are skewed by thinking biases.
Maybe well known to psychologists, but I don't know what they call them. Anyone know ?
- 1. Programmed to believe over disbelieve - People seem naturally biased in favour of believing rather than not believing.
They want to believe the magic money business is real, over me saying it's a scam.

- 2. $$ Dynamic favours acceptance
Getting people into a scam earns you money whereas helping them stay out does not

My theories
- 3. Certainty beats uncertainty (in a pyramid you see your neighbours real profits, whereas you won't see real losses until the pyramid ends)

- 4. Bias in favour of a story/narrative & against pure reason. It seems to me that people want to believe in the pyramid scheme cos it has a strong story. whereas opposing it seems like being negative and cynical.
- 4a. I wonder if this is a bias for simplicity over having things complex.

- 5. By coincidence there is already a type of Confirmation Bias called Narrative Bias where people accept something which fits in with their world view e.g "yes the banks and capitalists are just a pyramid schemes, so this is the same but for the poor"
 
2. since internet advertising costs nothing

I don't disagree with the rest, but this part just isn't true. Google didn't get to be one of the biggest companies in the world by letting people advertise for free.
 
Common you know that was a rhetorical "nothing" Google ads cost almost nothing each ., it's just that they sell a lot of 'nothings'
(Though I have to admit that since I have nrver been influencedto buy anthing by an internet ad, I think big Gs business model is highly questionable and may well be based on similar smoke and mirrors to a Ponzi, Although like microsift they buy up companies which do make genuineky profitable products)
 
We just noticed that a factor in the bias is the language is all positives ..ie. You will, rather that you will not.
Eg. "you will make money"
against he anti-scammers negative statements "it's not a real business"

And all negative coulds are another strong factor
"Take the opportunity or you could miss out"

Sales experts will say that fear of losing something is a strong driving factors

Ironic since the majority of participsnts will eventuallly lose money they startedwith at the beginning.
 
The Isle of Wight is just a normal part of England though. And the scheme being on the island made it very easy to show how quickly it would collapse. But people still fell for it in their droves.

I think that eposide was when I really realised how innumerate a lot of people really are.

Rolfe.
One wonders how it came to pass that Jersey, Guernsey and Man were entrusted with local legislatures when Scotland was deprived of one for nearly three centuries.
 
Probably because all of them are Crown Dependencies and not part of the United Kingdom. None of them are members of the Commonwealth or the EU either.
 
Common you know that was a rhetorical "nothing" Google ads cost almost nothing each ., it's just that they sell a lot of 'nothings'

This doesn't help at all. You claimed that one indication it was obviously a scam is that internet advertising costs nothing. Whether you meant actually nothing or simply very little, the simple fact is that you're wrong. Google adverts can actually be very expensive. Even if you're paying the cheaper end of things, what do you think an advertising campaign is other than a lot of adverts? And of course, that's not taking into account the cost of actually making the adverts in the first place. PR companies are not known for their charitable natures.

(Though I have to admit that since I have nrver been influencedto buy anthing by an internet ad, I think big Gs business model is highly questionable and may well be based on similar smoke and mirrors to a Ponzi, Although like microsift they buy up companies which do make genuineky profitable products)

Like it or not, advertising clearly works. If you think Google could be a Ponzi scheme just because you think you haven't ever been affected by any online advert, that's a good sign you don't understand either advertising or Ponzi schemes. Just take a look at the graphic on the link above. $32.2 billion dollars in advertising revenue. It doesn't matter what your personal opinion of the advertising industry might be, a company with tens of billions of dollars of legitimate income can not in any way be mistaken for a Ponzi scheme.
 
Cuddles I am not interested in talking to you. I'd rather stick to the topic of the post. It is not about me nor Google.
Telexfree has no real customers who buy advertising, it's just a fake job they tell the pyramid scam investors they to do, so they can argue its not a pyramid.
 
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Common you know that was a rhetorical "nothing"

GHAH!

I've been seeing this mistake pop up with increasing frequency, and it really bugs me, so I think it's time we put a stop to it (violently, if necessary).

The expression is "Come on", NOT "Common". The former makes sense (you're suggesting that the listener follow you, metaphorically, and accept the logic of your argument), the latter does not.
 
(yawn. it was predictive text, can you guys please stick to the topic off the post, instead of leading us off down rabbit holes.. and keep up the quality of this forum)
 
Hi, Here in the island of Madeira about 15-20% of the population have neen taken in by a pyramid scam called Telexfree.
- One minute after someone showed me I said "look you can you see it's too good to be true, it seems to me it's just like the pyramid scam in Albania"

..but there is some strange psychology going on as if people are brainwashed and in a cult
1. They accept the first answer they get from the organisers e.g. "No it's not a pyramid it's MLM andthe products are our VOIP service and selling internet advertising"
but that does not bear any second questioning, people only buy the VOIP cos it's a requirement to get into the money making scheme, no one actually uses it..even in their own conferences Telexfree people just use Skype.

If the product has no legitimate market demand and people are paying for it as part of the scheme, then yes, it's a product-masked pyramid scheme.

2. since internet advertising costs nothing it's obviosly just a fake job.

As others have pointed out, internet advertising is not even close to free. Per advertisement can be quite cheap, but the numbers you need to run to get results are large, much like direct mail.

3. The third interesting bit is that it is extremely slow burn, the people at the top aren't creaming off too much so they are able to keep it going.
- And that's the thing people can see their neighbours are making money. My friend told me I put in $15,000 now after 1 year I have $50,000.

$15000? What do you "get" for that?
 

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