WTC Dust Study Feb 29, 2012 by Dr. James Millette

[chrismohr]

Forgive me for butting in, but isn't there general agreement that:

iron reduction does not require therm*te
formation of iron-rich spheres of various species does not require therm*te
formation of such spheres is not proof of temperatures reaching or exceeding the melting point of bulk iron

The main arguments of conspiracy theorists are that these objects could not have been produced by any other process but a thermitic reaction. They have not proven this claim, to my knowledge.

Actually, there is NO agreement between us and 9/11 Truth researchers on your points. Ziggi and MM still claim that only thermite (or at least temperatures above the melting points of steel/iron) can create iron-rich microspheres, and the formation of these spheres is proof positive of thermite (I think they would at least concede that other things that cause temperatures to rise above 2750F could also do this). This is so basic to me, I can't believe it's even being argued. But I guarantee you it is.

 

[LSSBB]

Actually, there is NO agreement between us and 9/11 Truth researchers on your points. Ziggi and MM still claim that only thermite (or at least temperatures above the melting points of steel/iron) can create iron-rich microspheres, and the formation of these spheres is proof positive of thermite (I think they would at least concede that other things that cause temperatures to rise above 2750F could also do this). This is so basic to me, I can't believe it's even being argued. But I guarantee you it is.

The Truthers have failed to define what "iron-rich" means and what material meets that criteria, so they are as usual operating with weasel-words.

 

[Spanx]

So what might we expect to find when grinding acres of concrete with tons of steel ?

 

[Gamolon]

I have a question if anyone cares to answer.

Does Harrit's paper suggest that the thermitic substance was mixed IN with the steel primer paint or was it applied SEPARATELY? Anything I've read leads me to believe that it would have to have been applied like a paint coating.

 

[Gamolon]

Another question.

Couldn't a eutectic reaction create iron-rich microspheres?

 

[chrismohr]

Maybe, but there was very little eutectic steel in the debris. It wouldna't account for the vast amounts found in the WTC dust.

 

[Georgio]

...there was very little eutectic steel in the debris.

Do we know this?

Does Harrit's paper suggest that the thermitic substance was mixed IN with the steel primer paint or was it applied SEPARATELY? Anything I've read leads me to believe that it would have to have been applied like a paint coating.

This isn't from the paper and actually it's not really answering your question but here's a relevant quote from Niels Harrit's interview on a show called 'The Mind Renewed' in which he talks about how we don't know how the nano-thermite, if that's what it is, fits into the demolition picture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ1B2TqBIM0) He also mentions it possibly being mixed in with other things:

So...and this must be kept in mind because there has been a lot of hype around our findings, of this thermitic material, but fact is we do not know where it fits into hypothetical blast scenarios of world trade center. Many people think that this is explosive, and all we can say...'maybe'. Actually, we do not know. The...in my opinion the collapse scenarios for world trade center are complicated. Are very complicated. There is a lot of energy in the thermite reaction. And in recent years, and this means from the early nineties, this has been subject of military research to use the energy of the thermite reaction into an explosive action. That is, that you add chemicals to the reaction forming this pressure wave which makes the material an explosive. And at the same time, maybe you recall, we saw the advent of nanotechnology, which is a field of technology in between molecular sciences like chemistry, and what we call 'bulk materials', which is the realm of physics. Nano-technology is a boarder discipline between our physical world and the world of chemistry which is molecules. It is...just makes all the particles much smaller. So what you have, you have particles almost the size of molecules, they are bigger than molecules but they are so small that, in this case, when we are...in the thermite reaction...it's a solid state reaction, that is there is two powders reacting with each other. But if you make the particles very very small, the reaction is much faster and much more violence. So, if we talk about nano-thermite, where the particles are approaching molecular dimensions, the reaction is roughly 100 times faster than the classical thermite reaction. And for that reason...so we know that the research has been going on, we know that the principles of the thermite reaction forms the basis of making explosives and rocket fuel as well, propellants, so now you have three categories of what we call 'energetic' materials, we have incendiaries, explosives and rocket fuel. As an example, the second, what you call, 'step' of the space shuttle rocket, this was actually a nano-rocket fuel, so what I'm saying here is we have a chemical reaction with a lot of energy, and that can be used either as an incendiary or as rocket fuel or as an explosive. And we do not know where our findings come in.



I've also heard Harrit suggest that there must have been traditional explosives used as well as the nano-thermite.

 

[Porkpie Hat]

Wow Gamolon you're right. Never thought of this, but that kind of application of the thermite creates way more problems for Harrit than if he were hypothesizing a more traditional way of using it!

The theory of "painted on" thermite is simply absurd and all the discussion around what was found in the dust just ignores that.

 

[beachnut]

All the steel in the WTC was a eutectic.

 

[Miragememories]

"I've also heard Harrit suggest that there must have been traditional explosives used as well as the nano-thermite."

The thermite that Dr. Millette failed to identify, was likely what caused the initial toppling in the WTC Twin Towers.

It is particularly noticeable in the WTC2 (South Tower) collapse.

As can be seen in the news videos, a steady stream of brightly glowing molten metal cascaded from a corner location.

Seconds after this molten stream halted, that corner failed and the WTC 2 topple began.

Getting back to your question, once the upper sections of WTC 1 and WTC 2 started to topple a background of destruction noise was generated that would easily disguise the additional noise created by igniting sequenced conventional explosives.

MM

 

[beachnut]

The theory of "painted on" thermite is simply absurd and all the discussion around what was found in the dust just ignores that.

911 truth followers are not the sharpest tools in the shed, some will never recover from being career conspiracy theorists who can't gain the knowledge to breakaway from the lies and fantasy of 911 truth.

The painted on thermite is as dumb as any other thermite or explosives claims. 911 truth followers have to attack Millette to keep their idiotic fantasy of thermite alive - they can't debunk Millette, weak attacks are left.

 

[chrismohr]

Beachnut, The kind of eutectic process Jonathan Barnett discovered in a few pieces of steel were the result of sulfur and steel mixing together, and there wasn't much of it. Except for the Barnett examples, pretty much all of the steel left in the debris does not show this kind of extreme eutectic disintegration. I've written to Jonathan Barnett about this and yes, Georgio, we can be sure there wasn't very much of it because Barnett reported on a few pieces his team found but not very many. He also has three possible explanations of why these few pieces of steel may have disintegrated so dramatically: battery acid, acid rain and the gypsum in the office cubicles etc. He totally does NOT believe in any kind of thermite, thermate, or anything else of the sort, and was very very clear to me about this.

 

[beachnut]

Beachnut, The kind of eutectic process Jonathan Barnett discovered in a few pieces of steel were the result of sulfur and steel mixing together, and there wasn't much of it. Except for the Barnett examples, pretty much all of the steel left in the debris does not show this kind of extreme eutectic disintegration. I've written to Jonathan Barnett about this and yes, Georgio, we can be sure there wasn't very much of it because Barnett reported on a few pieces his team found but not very many. He also has three possible explanations of why these few pieces of steel may have disintegrated so dramatically: battery acid, acid rain and the gypsum in the office cubicles etc. He totally does NOT believe in any kind of thermite, thermate, or anything else of the sort, and was very very clear to me about this.

They found corrosion, they studied the steel and found a eutectic with various elements.

Iron spheres are all over the place, and occur in fire. Anyone who uses iron spheres as proof of thermite are idiots.

I expected the eutectic was the two samples of steel which corroded in fire up to 1000C, well below the temperature thermite reaches - thus when the liars in 911 truth use the corroded steel as evidence for thermite, they are displaying extra credit ignorance. All the steel is a eutectic, it is how steel is made.

The battery acid is a possible source, who does not have an UPS in their house, imagine how many UPS were in the WTC.

As seen, all that 911 truth followers have left is weak attacks on Millette, since they don't understand chemistry, physics, and science.

 

[LSSBB]

They found corrosion, they studied the steel and found a eutectic with various elements.

Iron spheres are all over the place, and occur in fire. Anyone who uses iron spheres as proof of thermite are idiots.

I expected the eutectic was the two samples of steel which corroded in fire up to 1000C, well below the temperature thermite reaches - thus when the liars in 911 truth use the corroded steel as evidence for thermite, they are displaying extra credit ignorance. All the steel is a eutectic, it is how steel is made.

The battery acid is a possible source, who does not have an UPS in their house, imagine how many UPS were in the WTC.

As seen, all that 911 truth followers have left is weak attacks on Millette, since they don't understand chemistry, physics, and science.

Well, I don't have a US in my house, not everyone has a server farm like you do in your house, Beachnut!

In any case, there were probably quite a few UPS, and MMs "glowing" stuff could very well be lead from those, so it's not really proof of thermite. If it was, how come it was so isolated? And how well was it timed to the collapse?

 

[Justin39640]

The thermite that Dr. Millette failed to identify, was likely what caused the initial toppling in the WTC Twin Towers.

It is particularly noticeable in the WTC2 (South Tower) collapse.

As can be seen in the news videos, a steady stream of brightly glowing molten metal cascaded from a corner location.

Seconds after this molten stream halted, that corner failed and the WTC 2 topple began.

Getting back to your question, once the upper sections of WTC 1 and WTC 2 started to topple a background of destruction noise was generated that would easily disguise the additional noise created by igniting sequenced conventional explosives.

MM

So you have to collapse a building to hide the sounds of charges after the collapse had begun?

 

[pgimeno]

Getting back to your question, once the upper sections of WTC 1 and WTC 2 started to topple a background of destruction noise was generated that would easily disguise the additional noise created by igniting sequenced conventional explosives.

Making things up doesn't work very well for you. Explosives able to cut steel are deafening; the collapse is not. David Lim and the people with him were inside WTC1 when it collapsed. They survived and not one of them reported explosives during the collapse.

Compare the sound of the collapse with the sound of the explosives here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ

or here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rcctmcxGwM

Both were steel buildings.

 

[tsig]

So you have to collapse a building to hide the sounds of charges after the collapse had begun?

In CD's the explosives are used to start the collapse so if they're going off after the collapse then he has proved it is not a CD.

 

[thedopefishlives]

In CD's the explosives are used to start the collapse so if they're going off after the collapse then he has proved it is not a CD.

Yeah, but the WTC was too strong to be demolished by normal CD, so they had to keep blowing things up or the collapse would self-arrest.

 

[Porkpie Hat]

So you have to collapse a building to hide the sounds of charges after the collapse had begun?

No need, the entire thing was initiated by setting off a mini nuke buried miles underground so no one could hear it.

And the mini nuke was set off using DEW's hovering above the Manhattan but hidden with alien technology and it was all planned and perpetrated by a Keebler elf named "Sal" at the behest of shape shifting reptiles hiding in Jersey under the guise of hotdog vendors.

 

[Miragememories]

So you have to collapse a building to hide the sounds of charges after the collapse had begun?

Nano-thermite would be a useful means of inducing structural failure on the upper sections.

The sound of thermite's rocket-like flame would be quite unnoticeable against the cacaphony of noise surrounding it.

The toppling upper section of each tower must have created elevated noise levels.

The sound of sequenced detonations matching the collapse pattern of each tower matched our expectations.

It looked like the weight of each upper section was pile-driving the intact lower sections into the ground.

Once apparent global collapse initiation was under way, how would a triggered sequence program of core detonations have looked or sounded differently than what we've all seen...and heard?

Once the roof line started losing altitude, a sensor could signal the central controller which would activate the scripted pattern for the floor-by-floor core removals.

MM