• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Skeptical Bigfoot Articles

Several of the BF forums have libraries, but I've never heard of these articles, I'll check them out. If they wanted to strive to be truly objective, these articles would be included in those libraries.
As if your allusion to their being 'objective' somehow makes it true they really are (just to a different degree?). They're not 'objective' and they're not striving to be 'objective' and at this point in the game, I'm not sure how you don't already know that. Maybe you've forgot that all those people aren't really seeing Bigfoot, nor even possibly really seeing Bigfoot. No, they're really seeing (literally) everything but Bigfoot and just calling it such. Objective? Psychotic?
 
Dude, why is it that everything I post gets twisted around? I'm simply trying to participate in a conversation, quit attacking me.

Contrary to what you think you are reading into my post, some of those footers do consider themselves to be objective. However, either due to ignorance or lack of insight, they aren't. Take Munns for example, he thinks he is being objective in his approach.
 
Dude, why is it that everything I post gets twisted around? I'm simply trying to participate in a conversation, quit attacking me.

Contrary to what you think you are reading into my post, some of those footers do consider themselves to be objective. However, either due to ignorance or lack of insight, they aren't. Take Munns for example, he thinks he is being objective in his approach.

A distinction worth noting. Education in true objectivity is clearly a waste of time on our part, as evidenced by thousands of well-constructed, evidenced, and linked posts resulting in much ado about nothing. Sound. Fury. etc.
 
Dude, why is it that everything I post gets twisted around? I'm simply trying to participate in a conversation, quit attacking me.

Contrary to what you think you are reading into my post, some of those footers do consider themselves to be objective. However, either due to ignorance or lack of insight, they aren't. Take Munns for example, he thinks he is being objective in his approach.
If I was attacking you, you need to report it. Who the **** do I think I am attacking anything?! If I think I can get away with that I got another thing coming buster. I can't get away with that ****. Sheesh! I outta be ashamed of myself!

As for Munns, I think you've mistaken all his hand waving for sincerity. Which of course is his intent. Everyone believing he's "on the job" is far more important to him than his actually being so. As evidenced by the release of the wholly absurd 'Munns Report'. Which was nothing more than his half-assed attempt at fame and fortune. And mostly on the backs of others.

No, Bill Munns is not some sharp, long time Hollywood veteran film effects master with oodles of unrecognized talent and savvy in other areas who also happens to like Bigfoot. Far from it. He's an average, bitter, (likely) broke, show-biz wannabe who somehow got it in his head Roger Patterson's Bigfoot was his ticket to the big top time. Realizing early on he'd been completely outdone by Patterson 40 years prior in the "believable monster suit" department, he simply but stupidly claimed new expertise in something he mistakenly thought nobody was gonna seriously question if he faked it well enough. Whoops.
 
If I was attacking you, you need to report it. Who the **** do I think I am attacking anything?! If I think I can get away with that I got another thing coming buster. I can't get away with that ****. Sheesh! I outta be ashamed of myself!

As for Munns, I think you've mistaken all his hand waving for sincerity. Which of course is his intent. Everyone believing he's "on the job" is far more important to him than his actually being so. As evidenced by the release of the wholly absurd 'Munns Report'. Which was nothing more than his half-assed attempt at fame and fortune. And mostly on the backs of others.

No, Bill Munns is not some sharp, long time Hollywood veteran film effects master with oodles of unrecognized talent and savvy in other areas who also happens to like Bigfoot. Far from it. He's an average, bitter, (likely) broke, show-biz wannabe who somehow got it in his head Roger Patterson's Bigfoot was his ticket to the big top time. Realizing early on he'd been completely outdone by Patterson 40 years prior in the "believable monster suit" department, he simply but stupidly claimed new expertise in something he mistakenly thought nobody was gonna seriously question if he faked it well enough. Whoops.

Brilliantly put!!!
 
If I was attacking you, you need to report it. Who the **** do I think I am attacking anything?! If I think I can get away with that I got another thing coming buster. I can't get away with that ****. Sheesh! I outta be ashamed of myself!

As for Munns, I think you've mistaken all his hand waving for sincerity. Which of course is his intent. Everyone believing he's "on the job" is far more important to him than his actually being so. As evidenced by the release of the wholly absurd 'Munns Report'. Which was nothing more than his half-assed attempt at fame and fortune. And mostly on the backs of others.

No, Bill Munns is not some sharp, long time Hollywood veteran film effects master with oodles of unrecognized talent and savvy in other areas who also happens to like Bigfoot. Far from it. He's an average, bitter, (likely) broke, show-biz wannabe who somehow got it in his head Roger Patterson's Bigfoot was his ticket to the big top time. Realizing early on he'd been completely outdone by Patterson 40 years prior in the "believable monster suit" department, he simply but stupidly claimed new expertise in something he mistakenly thought nobody was gonna seriously question if he faked it well enough. Whoops.

I'm not reporting you when I can simply call you out on it and tell you to stop. I get more satisfaction doing it that way. As far as I can tell, as long as I'm polite about it and not calling you some kind of name( that I'm most definitely thinking) then I'm well within the rules.

Based on what I've personally seen of Munns only on forums, I think he genuinely believes he's right, but gets beyond mad when you point out the flaws. Now the "why" of that would be strictly speculation on my part since I don't know him personally.
 
Last edited:
Well, your basic idea is correct (bigfoot is a modern story with no real connections to past traditions), but the history of bigfoot certainly is more complicated than you said. It really started in the late 1950s, spurred on by the Wallace hoaxes and the public interest in the Himalayan Abominable Snowman (itself a western misinterpretation of local legends). Basically, Wallace hoaxed tracks, people started talking about an Abominable Snowman in America, and all of a sudden bigfoot happened. It has a little bit of precedence in stories influenced by the European wildman tradition (ex: Jacko); although most of those stories weren't linked until the late 50s, they provided a background for the character of bigfoot to exist, mostly through ideas of savages/noble savages and people misunderstanding paleontology (ape-men lived in the past, so ape-men could be running around now). A for Patterson's role, I'm not sure it was quite that big. Yes, the PGF was huge and boosted the public's knowledge of bigfoot, but Patterson was coming into an already existing field and did very little that others had done, besides make that film. As far as I know, most of what he did was just copy other people's (mostly John Green) work; his film was hugely influential and is probably the main reason the public started to believe as heavily, but he wasn't personally responsible for a lot of "research" as far as I know.

The Native American part is completely disjointed from that development. I actually couldn't find out when people started linking them together (I think John Green's stuff from the early 60s is probably when it started), but they're not related at all. The two traditions talk about different things and they serve different purposes (not to mention how different many of the Native wildman stories are from each other). Even when JW Burns published the stories that led him to invent the word "Sasquatch," he did it as a presentation of superstitious Indian stories, not as valid folklore or accounts of phenomena. The two seemingly only became linked as an afterthought because someone, likely John Green, thought it lent his stories credibility. Suttles, in his article, actually calls Green out by name and frames his analysis at answering some of Green's criticisms.

Or at least, that's the basic gist of what my research led me to conclude. I don't want to sound like a know-it-all or to be argumentative, I've just done a lot of research on the subject and want to state what I know. Bigfooters lie about their history/tradition, and I think it's important to call them out on that. Not only is it dishonest, but it's also incredibly disrespectful to the Native traditions they're appropriating and misrepresenting (my paper was for a Native American religion class, so most of my research went towards that). A lot of people have written about all the bad science behind bigfootery, but I think presenting the legend as a modern invention does a lot to hamper its credibility, too. I'm actually surprised so few people have approached it from that angle.

I agree with most of this. I'll add a couple of suggestions. First, I would figure Ivan Sanderson into this as the writer that had the most influence in the 50s and 60s. He was a zoologist and had a wide readership. His fortean inclinations colored his perceptions. He was steadily fed Bigfoot "news" by Green, and was able to reach a much larger audience than Green's.

Second, "ape-man" sightings were linked to Indian stories of sasquatch by Indians themselves, long before Green. Consider this: http://feedback.pdxradio.com/topic/native-americans-reveal-secrets-of-bigfoot-1924

Here are a couple of links you might find valuable:

http://www.internationalskeptics.co...p?t=104878&highlight=bigfoot+native+americans


https://repository.library.brown.edu/studio/item/bdr:11061/
 
Last edited:
I agree with most of this. I'll add a couple of suggestions. First, I would figure Ivan Sanderson into this as the writer that had the most influence in the 50s and 60s. He was a zoologist and had a wide readership. His fortean inclinations colored his perceptions. He was steadily fed Bigfoot "news" by Green, and was able to reach a much larger audience than Green's.

Second, "ape-man" sightings were linked to Indian stories of sasquatch by Indians themselves, long before Green. Consider this:

Thanks for the tip about Sanderson. I honestly don't know much about him; like I said, I haven't really done much research into bigfoot's rise to popularity outside of some pretty basic stuff. I just didn't need to go very far into the early bigfoot researchers.

As for that link to newspaper articles: Assuming they were actually written by a Native person, I honestly don't see anything in them that seems to indicate a real tie to bigfoot. The name used in them indicates a Klallam variant of the typical Ste'tal and Tsiatko stories that were common along the Puget Sound. It's a really interesting tradition, especially since the root of those names comes from a term that means "stranger." The tradition is basically a bunch of scary stories about strangers, probably raiding parties from the north, and make a lot of sense considering the cultural importance of the ingroup. There's a lot of... colorful language used in there (for lack of a better term) which changes the stories from what I'm familiar with into some much more sensational, but it's relatively standard stuff (and not atypical of newpaper printings of Native stories from the time period, stylistically speaking - Burns' stuff is very similar). The description of them as ape-men is little weird, but everything else is fairly consistent with other traditions I'm familiar with, and I'd be more willing to tie that description with the popular misconceptions of paleoanthropology I mentioned earlier (i.e., a person trying to use familiar-ish language to add color or a descriptive frame of reference to a story). The articles were also written long before bigfoot was even a thing, so its relevance to the field of bigfootery, especially in its early days, is questionable to me (after a quick search, the only sources I've seen using them are within the past few years). But, maybe that's just me being too critical.


As for the earlier suggestion of sending my paper to Meldrum: I've thought about it before. I'm going to be very busy with coursework with the foreseeable future, but if I feel like giving it a shot when I have time to actually care about this stuff, I might try it.
 

Back
Top Bottom