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UK union leader Bob Crow dead

The Don

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The leader of the Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union Bob Crow has died at the age of 52. Although I feel sorry for his family and friends, his style of industrial negotiation belonged to the 1970s instead of the 2010s and I will not be sad to see the back of him. His style and approach allowed outdated notions of what a malign influence unions are to persist and I believe that as a result he did the union movement a major disservice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26527325

I hope he is replaced by a more moderate leader and there can be positive changes in industrial relationships in the rail industry.
 
The leader of the Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union Bob Crow has died at the age of 52. Although I feel sorry for his family and friends, his style of industrial negotiation belonged to the 1970s instead of the 2010s and I will not be sad to see the back of him. His style and approach allowed outdated notions of what a malign influence unions are to persist and I believe that as a result he did the union movement a major disservice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26527325

I hope he is replaced by a more moderate leader and there can be positive changes in industrial relationships in the rail industry.
Hmm... one of those events that's surprising, but also not - he looked like he enjoyed a pie or two.

Unfortunately, IIRC, his deputy was being groomed as his successor, and is rumoured to be even more militant.
 
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I don't know how representative the appointment of leaders is in that union but his length of tenure would suggest strong desire for a continued approach along Crow lines.
 
I don't know how representative the appointment of leaders is in that union but his length of tenure would suggest strong desire for a continued approach along Crow lines.

I don't know either. You're both right that if that's what the union wants, that's what it will get. I hope that cooler heads may prevail and some more moderate members who maybe hadn't voted in leadership elections in the past do so now.
 
I suspect it is popularity since his track record must be better than any UK trade union leader.

ETA--Just noticed two railway puns--accidental
 
Bloody hell; was only listening to him last night on Radio 4's PM programme.

I don't know enough about his policies to make an informed comment, but it's worth noting that the media which seem fixated on his salary and holidays in Mexico (IIRC) are generally run by people whose earnings are many times his. Daily Mail boss Dacre earned £ 1.8 M in 2012, for example. Not sure what he does for his employees apart from his renowned four-letter pep talks (see Private Eye for details).
 
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Bloody hell; was only listening to him last night on Radio 4's PM programme.

I don't know enough about his policies to make an informed comment, but it's worth noting that the media which seem fixated on his salary and holidays in Mexico (IIRC) are generally run by people whose earnings are many times his. Daily Mail boss Dacre earned £ 1.8 M in 2012, for example. Not sure what he does for his employees apart from his renowned four-letter pep talks (see Private Eye for details).

Oh, yeah. Whatever anyone wants to say about Crow, his portrayal in a lot of the media was massively hypocrictical. Mind you, doggedly sticking to his council house while on a +£100k salary wasn't the best PR move.
 
Oh, yeah. Whatever anyone wants to say about Crow, his portrayal in a lot of the media was massively hypocrictical. Mind you, doggedly sticking to his council house while on a +£100k salary wasn't the best PR move.

If we limit social/council housing to those who are unable to afford anything else, aren't we in danger of ghettoising? If he had gone and bought/rented a fancy big villa, I can't see it would have stopped the critics anyway.
 
If we limit social/council housing to those who are unable to afford anything else, aren't we in danger of ghettoising? If he had gone and bought/rented a fancy big villa, I can't see it would have stopped the critics anyway.

You're right there is a real risk of ghettoising. Maybe if the well off paid something close to the commercial rent rather than the heavily subsidised social rent then it would be a win (more money for the council), win (there would still be an incentive to have mixed neighbourhoods of social housing), win (people could continue to live in the neighbourhoods they grew up in).
 
If we limit social/council housing to those who are unable to afford anything else, aren't we in danger of ghettoising? If he had gone and bought/rented a fancy big villa, I can't see it would have stopped the critics anyway.


Personally, I think the right-wing media demonisation of his character and accusations of hypocrisy were always out of order: those sorts of things are matters for internal governance only.

However, what WAS fair game to be attacked was his militant, Luddite attitude. In my opinion (and the opinion of many moderate commentators/politicians/industry analysts etc), he was a major barrier to modernisation and necessary streamlining, particularly in the overground and underground railway industries.

I wouldn't be at all surprised, incidentally, if he did garner huge support among "his workers". After all, if you're a LU tube driver or a regional railways guard, you are liable to be supportive of a leader who is fighting tooth and nail for the preservation of your job at all costs, and being a totally belligerent "negotiator" in wage disputes. I doubt that many tube drivers or railway guards are very interested in the economic/technological arguments in favour of fewer staff - turkeys and Christmas spring to mind.......

And, by the way, it's only because of the unique nature of the railway industry in particular that Crow was able to maintain his militancy. He knew very well, for example, that underground strikes are massively damaging to the London (and therefore UK) economy - and that therefore they are an extremely powerful stick to be able to wave around. It's the fact that the LU is a) a local monopoly and b) dominated by one union - his one, that made him such a disproportionately powerful figure in the national consciousness. By contrast, Unite (a far far larger union covering a range of nationally-important industries) could not these days be militant even if it wanted to: most of its members work in the free market private sector, and its leadership could not therefore hold the country to ransom in anywhere like the same way.

So, it's sad to see a significant figure in British politics die in office, at a comparatively young age, but I for one will not be mourning his loss at a political/industrial/economic level. Regrettably, the nature of the hierarchy at the top of the RMT strongly suggests that his death will not bring an end to the union's militancy or Luddite attitudes.
 
If we limit social/council housing to those who are unable to afford anything else, aren't we in danger of ghettoising? If he had gone and bought/rented a fancy big villa, I can't see it would have stopped the critics anyway.

In an ideal world there would be a lot more social housing available in the first place, but considering the established shortage, as I said, it doesn't look good PR-wise. That aside, the alternative needn't have been "a fancy big villa," either.
 
If we limit social/council housing to those who are unable to afford anything else, aren't we in danger of ghettoising? If he had gone and bought/rented a fancy big villa, I can't see it would have stopped the critics anyway.

You're right there is a real risk of ghettoising. Maybe if the well off paid something close to the commercial rent rather than the heavily subsidised social rent then it would be a win (more money for the council), win (there would still be an incentive to have mixed neighbourhoods of social housing), win (people could continue to live in the neighbourhoods they grew up in).

Yeah, I expect the same people would have complained if he had lived in an expensive house and called him a hypocrite for being a wealthy man agitating on behalf of the poor.

As for ghettoising, maybe what could be done is that those who earn enough money while living in a council house could be allowed to buy their house off the state thereby creating a mixed neighbourhood. :duck:
 
It's a shame. He was probably the only remaining union leader in the UK that actually did anything for the members.
 
Not sure why a socialist living in social housing should invite comment, much less surprise.
 
It's a shame. He was probably the only remaining union leader in the UK that actually did anything for the members.
Bizarre comment.

"Doing something for the members" doesn't mean calling everyone out on strike at the drop of a hat. There are trade unions quietly looking after their members every day of the week all over the country....... teachers unions supporting members against baseless accusations from students, miners unions sorting out medical compensation or pension arrangements, players' unions supporting professional sportsmen into new careers at the end of their playing days, and so on. That's the real work of Trade Unions......not the headline grabbing politicking that Bob Crowe indulged in.

I am glad he is gone from public life in Britain, but I wish he didn't have to have died to be gone. His dinosaur-era brand of union leadership always looked anachronistic, and it is that, rather than the occupant of the job, which should have died.
 
Not sure why a socialist living in social housing should invite comment, much less surprise.

I suspect that the outrage comes from someone earning £145k a year and claiming to be a socialist living in a house which is subsidised by people earning considerably less than that.
 
Bizarre comment.

"Doing something for the members" doesn't mean calling everyone out on strike at the drop of a hat. There are trade unions quietly looking after their members every day of the week all over the country....... teachers unions supporting members against baseless accusations from students, miners unions sorting out medical compensation or pension arrangements, players' unions supporting professional sportsmen into new careers at the end of their playing days, and so on. That's the real work of Trade Unions......not the headline grabbing politicking that Bob Crowe indulged in.

I am glad he is gone from public life in Britain, but I wish he didn't have to have died to be gone. His dinosaur-era brand of union leadership always looked anachronistic, and it is that, rather than the occupant of the job, which should have died.

You've pointed out the work of a union, rather than the work of a union leader.
There's very little doubt that he ensured that the members of the RMT were well looked after during his tenure, which saw it's membership quadruple.
Whether you were happy about his methods is frankly irrelevant.
 

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