WTC Dust Study Feb 29, 2012 by Dr. James Millette

[Senenmut]

What does that mean? If he heated them more how would this have changed them.

only following the standard would have told us now wouldn't it!!

 

[Senenmut]

It sure does! Harrit needs to rethink his paper and figure out why someone (Millette) found other types of chips where he concludes in his paper that there are only thermitic chips.

that is interesting isn't it!

If Jones KNEW there were many types of red/gray chips, then why were those tested and reported on in the paper so scientists could compare the results? Why weren't paint chips FROM THE DUST PILE tested and compared? They supposedly had them right?

ask them...

 

[kid meatball]

you don't get it. you need to think about the two sets as different because you cant link the two because there was no replication of the experiments. it is as easy as that.

The criteria for separation of chips of interest have been repeatedly laid out in this thread. Attracted to a magnet, red/gray. Millette followed this procedure, therefore his chips are a match.

Any other experiments are perfectly valid, so long as the experimenter is clear about his process.

 

[DGM]

only following the standard would have told us now wouldn't it!!

No.

Do you agree that Millette used the correct method to isolate his chips? Do you agree with Harrit, that there were only one type of chips found using this method?

That's all that matters here.

 

[Senenmut]

The criteria for separation of chips of interest have been repeatedly laid out in this thread. Attracted to a magnet, red/gray. Millette followed this procedure, therefore his chips are a match.

Any other experiments are perfectly valid, so long as the experimenter is clear about his process.

just keep on saying that to yourself and keep believing. maybe you can change the way science works by your mental prowess. ive noticed many "debunkers" don't believe in the scientific method.

part of the scientific method:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_(scientific_method)

"Reproducibility is the ability of an entire experiment or study to be reproduced, either by the researcher or by someone else working independently."

 

[Senenmut]

No.

Do you agree that Millette used the correct method to isolate his chips? Do you agree with Harrit, that there were only one type of chips found using this method?

That's all that matters here.

your taking about 2 different sample sets. the way they are isolated and the way they react may be different. that's why you replicate experiments.

 

[Senenmut]

That's all that matters here.

so u don't believe in the scientific method?

 

[DGM]

your taking about 2 different sample sets. the way they are isolated and the way they react may be different. that's why you replicate experiments.

Even the ones that are shown to be chemically identical?

Did Harrit just get lucky and never found any chips that weren't "thermite"?

 

[Senenmut]

Even the ones that are shown to be chemically identical?

Did Harrit just get lucky and never found any chips that weren't "thermite"?

lucky may not be the word, they were just there.....in his sample.

 

[DGM]

so u don't believe in the scientific method?

I do. The Harrit paper violates it in the first stage. They don't include the criteria to insure you get the correct chips. The scientific method is not just about duplicating a study. It also allows others a chance to check your conclusions, even by using different methods.

 

[Senenmut]

I do. The Harrit paper violates it in the first stage. They don't include the criteria to insure you get the correct chips. The scientific method is not just about duplicating a study. It also allows others a chance to check your conclusions, even by using different methods.

using different methods as long as you know you got the same material. that is what replication is all about. once you have determined that millettes samples did produce iron and silicon rich microspheres, he could have done other studies.

 

[kid meatball]

just keep on saying that to yourself and keep believing. maybe you can change the way science works by your mental prowess. ive noticed many "debunkers" don't believe in the scientific method.

part of the scientific method:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_(scientific_method)

"Reproducibility is the ability of an entire experiment or study to be reproduced, either by the researcher or by someone else working independently."

Are you saying any of the studies couldn't be reproduced? Pretty sure they can. Whether they should be reproduced is entirely another matter.

 

[kid meatball]

lucky may not be the word, they were just there.....in his sample.

Is that the scientific method in action? Doesn't seem all that reproducible, does it?

 

[Gamolon]

the scientific method concerning replication of experiments would have either found millette chips the same or different.

And this is where you are wrong. Very wrong.

The criteria for determining chips stopped at two things.

1. Having a red/gray layer
2. Attracted to a magnet

Any experiment/test AFTER the selection criteria above was used to "prove" that those chips selected would be thermitic. Harrit did not find ONE CHIP that was NOT thermtic.

That being said, the end result is that all chips having a red/gray layer and being attracted to a magnet will be thermitic. That's why in his one video presentations, he passes around a bag of WTC dust with a magnet and tells the audience to drag the magnet across the bag. The red/gray chips that are attracted to the magnet will be the ones he will be talking about. No other selection criteria/test/experiment needed.

Millette used the same selection criteria above and found different chips when he did some of the experiments. How did that happen?

You are claiming "replication of experiments", but Harrit didn't even do that. Show me one test/experiment in Harrit's paper that Harrit CONSISTENTLY did on EVERY chip, in addition to the red/gray layer and magnetic attraction, that helped him determine he had the right chips.

You want Millette to do a "replication procedure" that Harrit didn't even do himself!

 

[Gamolon]

using different methods as long as you know you got the same material.

So you're saying the before using "different methods" you have to first know you "have the same material"?

So, in addition to the red/gray layer and magnetic attraction characteristics, what other criteria is needed to make sure one has the "same material"? Please point us to the additional selection criteria in his paper that Harrit used to determine HE had the "right material".

 

[Gamolon]

the way they are isolated and the way they react may be different. that's why you replicate experiments.

For the millionth time, how were they isolated prior to the tests and experiments?

Please point out the criteria Harrit used. Which isolation criteria did Millette miss prior to doing the other tests/experiments?

 

[DGM]

using different methods as long as you know you got the same material. that is what replication is all about. once you have determined that millettes samples did produce iron and silicon rich microspheres, he could have done other studies.

No, because the chips would be destroyed. That's why the separation criteria has to be accurate.

The Harrit paper is not repeatable.

 

[chrismohr]

For the millionth time, how were they isolated prior to the tests and experiments?

Please point out the criteria Harrit used. Which isolation criteria did Millette miss prior to doing the other tests/experiments?

Gamolon is of course right that Harrit et al used only the two separation techniques: color and attraction to magnet. Millette did the same and then went further, matching the spectra to be sure his chips matched the original chips a-d. Harrit himself, in an email, said the resistivity test was not a primary determinator (is that a word?) for finding chips of interest.

 

[Miragememories]

"I'm not sure I get what you're saying there. LTA [Low Temperature Ashing], is an attempt to preserve inorganic compounds."

Paint-specific "inorganic compounds".

"yep and from the very beginning of the paper millette states "The analytical procedures used to characterize the red/gray chips were based on the criteria for the particles of interest in accordance with the recommended guidelines for forensic identification of explosives5 and the ASTM standard guide for forensic paint analysis and comparison."

To paraphrase Senemut; 'Why, set an ASTM paint pigment identification standard, where inorganic paint pigments can be destroyed before reaching 450C, the test reference temperature?'

"Thermite is inorganic."

Yes.

Thermite is inorganic.

But the ASTM test was not for thermite.

It was for preparation of a paint sample for microscopic analysis and identification.

The temperature setting of 450C indicates a supported reference at which known paint inorganic pigment formulations would not be destroyed.

If, the paint contains a nanothermitic material designed to ignite at ~430C, it will ignite and combust.

It will also leave behind iron-rich microspheroids.

Dr. Milette did not use the Low Temperature Ashing ASTM reference temperature of 450C for prepping inorganic paint pigments.

Even though he claimed to follow the LTA ASTM standard specified on inorganic paint pigments, Dr. Millette was actually preparing for LTA on a compound containing nanothermite.

To follow LTA ASTM protocol and heat the sample to 450C, would invite a thermitic reaction with solid proof in the residue.

Or, not follow ASTM protocol, instead, under the guise of protecting his sample's fragile microscopic architecture, heat to a safe 400C temperature.

That eliminated the problem of explaining away a thermitic reaction.

So, Dr. Millette conveniently only evaluates the material before combustion.

MM

 

[DGM]

That eliminated the problem of explaining away a thermitic reaction.

So, Dr. Millette conveniently only evaluates the material before combustion.

MM

Except you need the components of a "thermitic" material for this. He did not find these.

Have fun with this distraction if you think it keeps your dream alive.