Tesla's papers confiscated

[tsig]

Indeed. But it actually gets even worse than that. You could almost make the argument that the government/military would avoid using some new technology because they know it would inevitably leak, get captured, or whatever and even if it gave them a temporary advantage things could ultimately end up worse for them. However, as Travis points out, anything that can be discovered by one person can be discovered by other people. So it's not a case of the military simply saying that some technology is too awesome for them to use in winning wars, but rather a case of them saying "this technology is so awesome we'd better just sit around and let someone else discover it and use it against us".

There are all kinds of secrets and conspiracies the military (any military really) get involved in, and plenty of scope for making up silly conspiracy theories about them. But they all involve the military and/or government trying to get some kind of advantage for themselves. The Tesla silliness must be the only conspiracy theory that claims the biggest, best funded and most powerful military force on the planet is engaged in a conspiracy to completely screw itself over for absolutely no reason.

Exactly, you can't keep secrets of nature because nature is there for everybody.

Cters think there is some magic knowledge that will suddenly transform everything whereas science advances in a step by step fashion. The lone genius working alone in his lab is more a product of myth than reality.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Indeed. But it actually gets even worse than that. You could almost make the argument that the government/military would avoid using some new technology because they know it would inevitably leak, get captured, or whatever and even if it gave them a temporary advantage things could ultimately end up worse for them.

This really happened to a certain extent in the case of proximity-fuzed antiaircraft shells. These became available to the US at the end of 1942, but were only used aboard warships, rather than on land, for fear that the Axis might recover an unexploded shell, copy the technology, and use it against Allied strategic bombers.

However, as Travis points out, anything that can be discovered by one person can be discovered by other people. So it's not a case of the military simply saying that some technology is too awesome for them to use in winning wars, but rather a case of them saying "this technology is so awesome we'd better just sit around and let someone else discover it and use it against us".

When Einstein wrote to FDR urging accelerated nuclear research, he warned that Germany appeared to be working on developing an atomic bomb.

 

[JayUtah]

Yeah but ultimately Tesla was just a man.

I agree, so long as one's assessment of his life and work is based on a rational examination and a reasonably competent knowledge of science and engineering. But if you're a free-energy nut or a cryptoscience nut and you adhere to the Tesla "religion," then Tesla was a kind of unique maverick messiah.

I've read a lot about the early years of the nuclear age and I've come to the conclusion that the USSR didn't really need its massive spying program to create nuclear weapons all on its own.

Probably not. Technological espionage is only a shortcut. It gets you there faster, but you may have gotten there on your own eventually.

 

[wrs]

Exactly, you can't keep secrets of nature because nature is there for everybody.

Seems to me it does a pretty good job guarding the secrets or humanity isn't smart enough to unlock them very quickly (me too there as a human).

Cters think there is some magic knowledge that will suddenly transform everything whereas science advances in a step by step fashion. The lone genius working alone in his lab is more a product of myth than reality.

I think some people (call them what you want, a label is just for your enjoyment, they are still after all human just like you) believe that there is knowledge long ago discovered that is still known but kept from the public and that any significant uncovering of those secrets you refer to is quashed in order to keep mankind from advancing faster.

Look at Tesla for example. He invented AC generator which competed with his other system that would have transmitted energy without wires. Someone else pointed out that kind of system would prevent the energy each user takes from being monitored and thus the producer wouldn't be "paid". Well the fact is, why isn't the energy free to everyone if it's being produced from a resource that is shared by everyone?

But the bigger question I have is, why no improvement on AC in 125 years? I mean look where we are. Massive amounts of copper have been mined to produce the wiring and more is always being demanded. Seems that the energy transmitted through the air would have been a lot less damaging to the environment and left man free to do more advancing instead of so much wasted time and effort stripping copper from the earth which OBTW consumes a lot of energy in the process.

 

[LSSBB]

Did anyone ever file a FOIA request for the papers? I'm picturing them in a crate in a warehouse right next to the Ark of the Covenant.

 

[wrs]

Curious about something. I just had somebody tell me that Tesla created some kind of free energy thingy, but the government grabbed all his notes after he died, so nobody knows any details.

This person told me in hushed tones that if his experiments weren't so earth shattering that the government would release the notes. The fact they aren't means they're hiding something.

Now, evidence of absence fallacy aside, I hadn't heard of this particular conspiracy. Does the government really have some of Tesla's notes and won't release them? What's the deal with this?

Here is an interesting take on it unless you would prefer the PBS one. This comes up second in the search below the PBS one.

 

[dudalb]

This really happened to a certain extent in the case of proximity-fuzed antiaircraft shells. These became available to the US at the end of 1942, but were only used aboard warships, rather than on land, for fear that the Axis might recover an unexploded shell, copy the technology, and use it against Allied strategic bombers.




When Einstein wrote to FDR urging accelerated nuclear research, he warned that Germany appeared to be working on developing an atomic bomb.

The restriction on proximity fuzed shells on land was lifted in December of 1944 during the Battle of the Bulge.

The classic example of being very cautious in the use of something lest the enemy find out about it was, of course,Ultra Intelligence.
The Allies had a policy of not using it unless they could A. create a phony cover story of how they came by the intelligence or B.Use it in ways that the Germans would not catch on to. A good example of the latter was simply rerouting convoys in the Atlantic to avoid U Boot Concentrations revealed by Ultra;the Germans would simply think it bad luck when ti came to hunting convoys. The former was the many hints dropped to the press that the Allies had Spies in high places in the German Governement.

 

[tsig]

I agree, so long as one's assessment of his life and work is based on a rational examination and a reasonably competent knowledge of science and engineering. But if you're a free-energy nut or a cryptoscience nut and you adhere to the Tesla "religion," then Tesla was a kind of unique maverick messiah.



Probably not. Technological espionage is only a shortcut. It gets you there faster, but you may have gotten there on your own eventually.

Seems to me that technical espionage is guaranteed to lock you in second place.

 

[JayUtah]

Seems to me that technical espionage is guaranteed to lock you in second place.

Yes, if that's your only means of developing technology. But if you already find yourself in second place despite your best effort, it's a way to close the gap more quickly than by your own efforts. On other projects you may be the innovator.

 

[catsmate]

When Einstein wrote to FDR urging accelerated nuclear research, he warned that Germany appeared to be working on developing an atomic bomb.

Well they were, along with Britain, France, Italy, the Soviet Union, Japan and pretty much everyone except the US.