Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

[A'isha]

The totally-not-imperialist Russians have given the Ukrainian military a surrender deadline.

EDIT: Darn it, beaten by two minutes by an edit upthread.

 

[L.Y.S.]

It was exactly your assumption. Not 33% of Eastern Ukrainians are pro-russia and of those who are not all would support such steps nor would mobilize.

Never said 33% would mobilize, only that enough are mobilizing to cause damage. Even if a small minority.

Yep, there has been such events taking place, and those guys are in the minority even in Donetsk never mind in the Eastern Ukraine. And as we agree, only Russian invasion would make those areas to fall to Russia as per the minority opinion.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Russia is gonna pay a few thugs to up the ante. I highly doubt that the minority will remain inactive for long.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Gotta love faux news.

 

[spin0]

Never said 33% would mobilize, only that enough are mobilizing to cause damage. Even if a small minority.

Yeah, but if 33% of people mobilize themselves and take government buildings it's clear that Eastern Ukraine will fall.

 

[A'isha]

An interesting Politico piece on why Russia no longer fears the West: it's not because, as Republicans assert, that Obama is weak, but that Europe is too heavily tied to Russia economically. They will let Putin do what he wants, because to follow along with the US' hardline stance and doing things like imposing sanctions will cost them too much money.

Ironically, the resurgence of Russian imperialism after the fall of Communism is being enabled, if not aided and abetted, by unfettered Western capitalism.

 

[Ziggurat]

Gotta love faux news.

That's a columnist who also writes for other outlets including Forbes and Al Jazeera. I'm not sure why you're associating this only with Fox rather than with the individual writer.

But whatever, we've all got our scapegoats. Of more interest is what exactly you find objectionable about the contents of that column. Please, elaborate.

 

[Ziggurat]

An interesting Politico piece on why Russia no longer fears the West: it's not because, as Republicans assert, that Obama is weak, but that Europe is too heavily tied to Russia economically. They will let Putin do what he wants, because to follow along with the US' hardline stance and doing things like imposing sanctions will cost them too much money.

Ironically, the resurgence of Russian imperialism after the fall of Communism is being enabled, if not aided and abetted, by unfettered Western capitalism.

First off, our capitalism is "fettered". Europe is so heavily reliant on Russian gas exports in no small part because of European regulations that have limited domestic energy production. If Europe is smart, that will change.

Second, while I agree that Putin's invasion of Ukraine would probably have happened regardless of who the president was, it's also true that Obama has been dangerously naive about Putin. While we may not be willing to do anything to stop this invasion under any administration, it really shouldn't have taken Washington by surprise. The fact that it did is a very bad sign.

 

[Dcdrac]

Europe is not as dependent on Russian gas as some believe

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/03/ukraine-crisis-gas-europe-idUSL6N0M01VY20140303

LONDON/PRAGUE March 3 (Reuters) - A mild winter and improved infrastructure mean Europe is less reliant on Russian natural gas pumped through Ukraine than in past years, easing worries that the escalating crisis in Ukraine could hurt supplies.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...090062-9ef7-11e3-a050-dc3322a94fa7_story.html

But changes in the global trade in natural gas have blunted Moscow’s weapon, forcing the Russian pipeline monopoly Gazprom to cut prices worldwide and giving Ukraine slightly more bargaining power.

The boom in U.S. shale gas has left gas-exporting countries shopping for other customers. Europe, as it adds terminals to handle liquefied natural gas, will be able to offset its own declining production with supplies from countries such as Qatar. And in 2012, Norway’s Statoil sold more gas to other European nations than Russia’s Gazprom.

 

[A'isha]

And the only mention of gas in relation to the economic ties that will keep Europe from sanctioning Russia is the observation that former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder is the chairman of a consortium mostly owned by Gazprom.

 

[crescent]

Europe is not as dependent on Russian gas as some believe

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/03/ukraine-crisis-gas-europe-idUSL6N0M01VY20140303



http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...090062-9ef7-11e3-a050-dc3322a94fa7_story.html

Your headline is misleading - the article points out that Europe is less dependent on Russian gas that comes through Ukraine. The article implies that disruption of supplies that travel through Ukraine would not have much short term impact.

It does not say that Europe is not dependent on Russian gas, only that alternate pipelines and good reserves create a situation where adequate supplies of Russian gas can be delivered without passing through Ukraine.

Edit: but you are right that Europe could further reduce the amount of gas it gets from Europe. Germany is Russia's main client; it is my understanding that much of the gas imported by Germany is used to generate electricity. Much of the gas generation of electricity is need to replace power once supplied by nuclear plants. Those plants were mothballed after the Fukishima fiasco. Bringing them back on-line could reduce the gas needed by Germany a good bit.

They will not do that, of course, because nobody will do much of anything, at least, nobody with any ability to do anything useful.

 

[Dcdrac]

The point remains strategically Europe is far less dependent on Russian gas than Russia is on the Wests money.

 

[trustbutverify]

Yup, and not forgetting the Nashi types cloaking as "anti-fascists".

The worst of the bunch.

That, and I'm also rooting for the May 25th election to know what the Ukrainians actually want. Unfortunately not sure if Russia would allow free&fair election in Ukraine.

If Putin needs a Ukrainian opinion, he'll have one written up.

 

[trustbutverify]

Financial markets reaction:

Russian markets take fright on Putin threat to Ukraine



I think that's actually a pretty big deal. Will it get Putin's attention though?

Putin's been humiliated in Ukraine. His image is what concerns him, not the markets.

 

[spin0]

Ironically, the resurgence of Russian imperialism after the fall of Communism is being enabled, if not aided and abetted, by unfettered Western capitalism.

After the Soviet Union fell Russia was unstable and depended on the economic help, funding, and investements from the west including the EU. One of the driving ideas behind the policy of having closer economic ties with Russia was the EU ideals: that economic co-dependency would advance mutual security, stability, prosperity, and democratic progress in Russia.

Unfortunately Putin has proven otherwise, and has also demonstrated he is not too reliable as a trading partner.

That was one of the points behind the Nord Stream gas pipeline from Russia. And when Nord Stream got green light the southern Nabucco pipeline project was unfortunately scrapped. But the EU has already seen the inherent vulnerability in its position and has pursued a policy of more heterogenic energy mix. As a result Russia's share of EU's gas has dropped from half to about 1/3 and is on decline. Imports from Norway and Quatar has been rising, and Norway is now the #1 gas supplier to the EU.

Here's a related piece I posted some pages earlier: Shifting energy trends blunt Russia’s natural-gas weapon
And as Russia doesn't have much of export industry its economy is dependend on the exports of oil, gas and raw materials.

Economic sanctions would hurt EU's economy to some extent, but they would hurt Russia's much more - and also Putin's personal wealth. But the EU as whole is inherently slow to react: first the national govs form their positions, and then the FMs meet (happened today) to form a common EU position, and then that is delivered to Russia by Catherine Ashton... etc. Some member states have already called for sanctions, but I'm not sure if there's much to expect from the EU before the Thursday meeting of national leaders.

 

[trustbutverify]

Okay, so your evidence they are Nazis is that there is little evidence they are Nazis.

Wow.

Please describe to me how the protest should have looked if, like, they somehow weren't Nazis?

Welcome to the land of mysteries.

 

[trustbutverify]

The totally-not-imperialist Russians have given the Ukrainian military a surrender deadline.

EDIT: Darn it, beaten by two minutes by an edit upthread.

You mean to say there might be someone in Crimea not welcoming Russian force with flowers and open arms?

Are they Zionists or Nazis?

 

[Ziggurat]

The point remains strategically Europe is far less dependent on Russian gas than Russia is on the Wests money.

Conversely, though, Russia considers Ukraine to be far more important to its interests than the West does. Which is why his invasion will succeed.

 

[A'isha]

You mean to say there might be someone in Crimea not welcoming Russian force with flowers and open arms?

Are they Zionists or Nazis?

Fascist Nazis.

The worst kind!

 

[IDB87]

You mean to say there might be someone in Crimea not welcoming Russian force with flowers and open arms?

Are they Zionists or Nazis?

I thought we established that they were Zionazis somewhere up thread?

 

[timhau]

Fascist Nazis.

The worst kind!

Fascist Zionist Nazis. And yes, they are the worst kind you're going to meet outside of Illinois.