Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[RandyN]

You know, I've just realised why that creeps me out. My initials are also MK.
(Oh and English girls don't have "Moms".)

As you were....

Rolfe.

Don't be silly...your initial is R.
You look remarkably like a cat.
Carry on.

 

[RandyN]

And shouldn't this be a time when a decent legal team would jump in and correct the mistake?

You mean like stand up and yell "OBJECTION"! They may do that in Italy...but RS AND AK defense apparently rarely did that. Didn't want to confuse the facts perhaps. Incompetent? Who knows.

 

[RandyN]

Oh, wow. Finally, photos of the cat's blood. Man, do cats bleed a lot, and they must run all around the place while they're bleeding.

Interesting to finally see the spot on the lightswitch that the cat left when he was turning on the lights. I wish the corresponding egrams hadn't been suppressed. I would like to see that cat's human DNA profile.

https://www.facebook.com/sara.achille/posts/611043818949036

Yep...now I wanna see the blood evidence that darn cat left outside on the walkway leading down to the lower apartment too.

Not a cat lover myself but several who are piped in that their cats often get in fights and even get torn ears etc...and yet somehow these animals have a habit of licking themselves clean apparently. Maybe this cat had three legs and its tongue blown off in a bomb threat attack sort of thing?

 

[NewtonTrino]

Pick me pick me...

I know you want LJ answers...but

1. Failure to request a continuance in the detention hearing in front of Claudia. They... the defense had been illegally denied access to their clients and had no way to even begin to know what to argue in this hearing and yet they never even requested a delay. A moron who is not a lawyer should know to do this.

2. Everything they did after number one above.

They allowed their client to be called the devil in open court without demanding confirmatory evidence of the claim...in short they went along with the joke that the Italian courts were willing to allow to be made of itself. In fact they refused to defend their client when she testified to being struck by police during her illegal, non-recorded, attorney absent, interrogation.

Oh and that little missing demand for the prosecution time line to refute "their unquestionable time line"...OH WAIT!!! They forgot to do a time line...plus the little climb and enter demo that was so tough for Ch 5 to put together. ON and On...these were incompetents. Not least of which was the great Bongiorno...who happened to be knocked up at the time and was the cause for great delays and an extended first trial since she could barely make it one day a week. A foolish political rather than experienced murder defense attorney choice. Better than Knox lawyers but not much better.

Look at this case! THERE WAS NO CASE! And yet.........

I agree with this. I've heard some people claim that they didn't do a good defense because they didn't want to buck the system. If that's the case they are part of the problem. If that's not the case they are clearly incompetent. The truth is probably some from column a and some from column b. Incompetent and scared.

 

[Dan O.]

Quote:
a "last access" occurred right on the night of 6-Nov-2007, at 02:47, during the time period in which Raffaele and Amanda were being held in the Questuraa[Police Headquarters]. (Massei 332)
Kwill, I'm not sure if you or Dan O posted the above. Is it referring to 2:47 am on the night of Nov 5/6 which is around the time or just after Finzi and other police took Raffaele barefoot to his flat to look for items (computer, knife?)? Or is this 2:47 am on night on the following night, Nov 6/7?

The computer timestamps just give a date and time. The date begins at the time 00:00 and end at 23:59. The "night of" text was added and I don't believe they would have changed the date just to fit the TV guide standard of days beginning mid morning.

There is testimony of the officer Sisani (2009-03-20) charged with collecting the computers. This was done on the morning of November 6 with Raffaele present and is also when inspector Finzi acquired the shiny knife.

I participated the 6 of November a house search carried out at the home of Raffaele Sollecito and precisely in Corso Garibaldi 110.

I was coordinated by Dr. Mark Chatting, the Chief Inspector Armando Finzi, Fausto Sparrows Inspector Chief, Superintendent Sergio Ranauro, Assistants Cape Camarda Paul Rossi and Claudio.

 

[Desert Fox]

Here's yet another FBI agent dismissing the evidence against Sollecito and Knox.

Is there ANY reply from guilters, meaning one who'll put their name to it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wNSdqys9Tc&feature=youtu.be

With or without stomach content, this has been a large part of my argument.
Wondering just how many FBI people we can line up on her side?

Edit: Always interesting to read the comments.

 

[Desert Fox]

There is testimony of the officer Sisani (2009-03-20) charged with collecting the computers. This was done on the morning of November 6 with Raffaele present and is also when inspector Finzi acquired the shiny knife.

I have so much problem with them killing so many hard drives. I makes no sense to me.

 

[Dan O.]

Yep...now I wanna see the blood evidence that darn cat left outside on the walkway leading down to the lower apartment too.

Not a cat lover myself but several who are piped in that their cats often get in fights and even get torn ears etc...and yet somehow these animals have a habit of licking themselves clean apparently. Maybe this cat had three legs and its tongue blown off in a bomb threat attack sort of thing?

The outside blood trail seen in the crime scene video is remarkably cat like. It starts at the top on the outside of the steps then part way down moves to be adjacent to the protective wall. and on down to the lower yard where it checks if there is access through the main door. Then the trail goes back part way up the steps on top of the inside wall to where it leaps to the open bathroom window through the bars leaving a cast off blood drip on the outer side of the window frame. It's then down to the floor of the bathroom where the inside trail begins.

 

[RandyN]

I don't remember for sure but the noise ticket was brought up by Mignini at the end of the first trial by reading the DM story into the record. Given that in Italy the judges may read anything they want it seem the time would be prudently spent producing the bank records as it would only be for one week of activity at most.



We shouldn't need to speculate.



Devil in details. If she put in cash from an unknown source that is more than a little detail. As I've made clear, I would put a lot of effort into clearing my name if I were her.
I would have produced a video for the appeal court and run it on the web and on TV if possible. Someone suggested that elements of it could be shown on a wall in Perugia. I would have found a way to show the entry into the cottage by the climber and the sound tests at Nara's. If a video of Curatolo exists at the Hellmann trial I'd show that as well.

Exactly! Its not that the Cali wacko from PMS 1 or 2 (I forget her handle at the moment) is correct about the money or is even a legal issue but it is a pillar they have used to create the osmosis effect.

Plus who cares if Chris cant remember or doesn't know about a 548 dollar whatever? Find out!

Its a frekin bank record! Banks are notorious for recording details about these transactions...something about trust and laws and keeping account. WTH? It may seem worthless but those who have followed the case for years know about these arguments and in fact we wonder why no one ever seems to bother dealing with the bigger ones.

This money thing is actually something quite relate-able to the case since they contend that MK money is missing and so if me I would damn well explain where my 548 bucks that I deposited (or if I even did) came from just in case...

Now I will say that apparently there is nothing in this money/deposit thing or else Mignini would have been all over that and we would have seen it in the case. And yet guys like Yummi feed people like Mignini (and company) data they gather from everywhere in order to force an osmosis of sorts.

The money argument makes Knox look bad. It is not chasing irrelevant accusations (since MK could have had money missing) and I think Charlie darn well knows that especially about this particular matter since there was some early backpedaling of something he posted about it long ago...and there have been hundreds of pages devoted to this matter and yet it would seem to be a simple and easily put to rest point. Here was the deposit and here is where it came from. Or else there was never any deposit so STFU!

Instead AK gets bamboozled on the blog? That's ridiculous.

A firewall around her of 5 or 6 (not me) experts who I can easily name a few great ones... would help her learn about her own case and the case of the PGP and even public opinion. They could review the comments and help prepare the correct reply. And several would do that freely and gladly...
Its a matter of stating facts correctly...nothing more.

Does Knox know one PMS'er claims to have a receipt for bleach? Does she know he has never produced it? Does it matter? Maybe. Because it proves he is a liar and a freak... and apparently a web site thief too, but I'm getting off topic...6 people... here and other places... could help her to not become tangled into sometimes well designed spiders web that are convoluted lies and falsehoods but none the less can confuse an already too lazy reporter who is working on the "real story".

Knox ignores this data at her own risk frankly.

We know the digestion data indicating TOD is powerful! We also know the TOD data is bolstered by strong circumstantial evidence that says MK was killed real close to 9:20 PM ....even RG testifies to that. Her scream was about 9:20 he said...huh. Funny time to randomly pick right?

And yet I don't recall that defense argument about highly likely TOD in any of the what...five trials? MK was dead by 9:20. Everything says that. Yet there was never an argument for that. No medical witness except easily fooled incompetents who allowed themselves to be outwitted by simply changing the argument...time to empty the stomach vs time for something to begin to move out of the stomach. And they knew almost exactly when the meal began...

Sorry but that would have ended the case. The defense barely even brought the matter up.

So ya...Knox needs help. Her lawyers are not helping her. The politicians in Italy have gone mute. This fight is still fully on and right now shes losing in case that has not struck home for her or her family or close friends yet.

Look how much hay can be made from an almost irrelevant phone call to mom that is being made. And its something like bank information that is recorded and kept and easy to find. So just do it! Or maybe cross your fingers harder...or maybe do both.

I would be studying and trying to understand what I'm up against. Sites like this are gold mines. We had Yummi telegraphing Italian thought process and legal logic here daily. Not only that but he is close enough to know Mignini at least...maybe more at worst.

I'm reminded that one should keep your friends close...and keep your enemies even closer. There will time for sitting in trees later.

 

[Mary_H]

Rita Ficarra

She arrived at 11pm and Amanda was being questioned by the SCO peeps. Doinno had already been called

QUESTION – Go ahead , we got to the evening of the 5th.
ANSWER – On the evening of 5th, I returned to the police station at around 23.00 with another colleague of mine and just after the elevator door opened, I found Amanda there. I saw that she was together with my colleagues. The elevator door literally opens onto a hallway that is just before the entrance of the offices of the Flying Squad. There is barely enough space. My astonishment was what I saw, what I found she was doing, demonstrating her gymnastic skills, she was making a wheel, she did see the bridge, did the splits. It seemed to honestly a bit out of place, that is, in such a circumstance, in such a time and place. So for that I scolded her and I also asked her what she was doing there. She, and then my colleagues had confirmed, tells me that she had come because they had called Raffaele Sollecito, who had been invited that evening to give other summary information himself.ANSWER – In the evening of the 5th, after having made those statements about these people that they could somehow have known Meredith, could somehow have had to deal with the victim, then I say we go and verbalize the content, what you’re telling me.
QUESTION – Do you remember what time it was, more or less?
REPLY – Look, we called the interpreter before, so I started chatting with her informally when I arrived at 11, so not before 1:30, that may be the time.QUESTION – So in the early hours of the 6th?
ANSWER – Yes, in the early hours of the 6th. The time that the interpreter came and we started to write.

Amanda reprimanded for saying she was tired.

PRESIDENT – in English to say this or in Italian?
ANSWER – In Italian. I reiterate, speak Italian, with me only speak Italian , I do not understand a word of English. So … I confirm that I urge my colleagues that there was another room, and at that moment the Deputy Commissioner Napoleani was being heard and other colleagues. And continuing to talk, the girl tells me that she was somewhat annoyed about the fact that she had been called and called several times by the police and was really tired. At that point I also reprimanded her because I say you’re tired, meanwhile, you came tonight, when no one has invited you. You could go to rest. In addition – I say – you do not understand that we are talking about the murder of a person who you say was your friend, you were living in the same house, it happened at your house. The police call you, if you put yourself in our shoes, we need useful information.

On the one hand, Ficarra looks as if she really was not prepared for Amanda to be there, and that the cops taking Amanda into the interrogation room was impromptu. It sounds the same way in Amanda's book -- she describes how Ficarra came upon her talking to the other cops and said something like, "Well if you have something to say, we'd better get it on the record."

On the other hand, here Ficarra says, "We called the interpreter before" -- presumably before Ficarra started chatting with Amanda at 11:00 -- but they would have had no reason to call the interpreter unless they knew they would be interviewing Amanda.

On the third hand, they had the information from the cell phone, must have known it was Patrick, but had not yet questioned Patrick.

Why would it be important, first, for them to make it look like they did not intend to interview Amanda if they really did, and second, why get Amanda to name Patrick when they could just do it themselves?

 

[Desert Fox]

On the one hand, Ficarra looks as if she really was not prepared for Amanda to be there, and that the cops taking Amanda into the interrogation room was impromptu. It sounds the same way in Amanda's book -- she describes how Ficarra came upon her talking to the other cops and said something like, "Well if you have something to say, we'd better get it on the record."

On the other hand, here Ficarra says, "We called the interpreter before" -- presumably before Ficarra started chatting with Amanda at 11:00 -- but they would have had no reason to call the interpreter unless they knew they would be interviewing Amanda.

On the third hand, they had the information from the cell phone, must have known it was Patrick, but had not yet questioned Patrick.

Why would it be important, first, for them to make it look like they did not intend to interview Amanda if they really did, and second, why get Amanda to name Patrick when they could just do it themselves?

Let us slap and scare the wits out of some poor American collage girl.
Let us then get her to kind of confess to murder even though we have no real evidence.
This way we can parade ourselves as heroes.

 

[anglolawyer]

Rita Ficarra

She arrived at 11pm and Amanda was being questioned by the SCO peeps. Doinno had already been called

QUESTION – Go ahead , we got to the evening of the 5th.
ANSWER – On the evening of 5th, I returned to the police station at around 23.00 with another colleague of mine and just after the elevator door opened, I found Amanda there. I saw that she was together with my colleagues. The elevator door literally opens onto a hallway that is just before the entrance of the offices of the Flying Squad. There is barely enough space. My astonishment was what I saw, what I found she was doing, demonstrating her gymnastic skills, she was making a wheel, she did see the bridge, did the splits. It seemed to honestly a bit out of place, that is, in such a circumstance, in such a time and place. So for that I scolded her and I also asked her what she was doing there. She, and then my colleagues had confirmed, tells me that she had come because they had called Raffaele Sollecito, who had been invited that evening to give other summary information himself.

ANSWER – In the evening of the 5th, after having made those statements about these people that they could somehow have known Meredith, could somehow have had to deal with the victim, then I say we go and verbalize the content, what you’re telling me.
QUESTION – Do you remember what time it was, more or less?
REPLY – Look, we called the interpreter before, so I started chatting with her informally when I arrived at 11, so not before 1:30, that may be the time.QUESTION – So in the early hours of the 6th?
ANSWER – Yes, in the early hours of the 6th. The time that the interpreter came and we started to write.

Hmm. Not sure this confused sentence justifies the inference you want to draw but I see the point you are making.

Amanda reprimanded for saying she was tired.

PRESIDENT – in English to say this or in Italian?
ANSWER – In Italian. I reiterate, speak Italian, with me only speak Italian , I do not understand a word of English. So … I confirm that I urge my colleagues that there was another room, and at that moment the Deputy Commissioner Napoleani was being heard and other colleagues. And continuing to talk, the girl tells me that she was somewhat annoyed about the fact that she had been called and called several times by the police and was really tired. At that point I also reprimanded her because I say you’re tired, meanwhile, you came tonight, when no one has invited you. You could go to rest. In addition – I say – you do not understand that we are talking about the murder of a person who you say was your friend, you were living in the same house, it happened at your house. The police call you, if you put yourself in our shoes, we need useful information.

Was she told to stress this in her evidence ya think? How did she know, on arriving at work, whether Ananda had been summoned or not? At what juncture exactly did this conversation occur?

 

[Desert Fox]

If I was told "Nobody invited you"
Alright then I am free to leave, correct?

 

[Mary_H]

Hmm. Not sure this confused sentence justifies the inference you want to draw but I see the point you are making.

She may mean before the "confession."

Was she told to stress this in her evidence ya think? How did she know, on arriving at work, whether Ananda had been summoned or not? At what juncture exactly did this conversation occur?

Yes, that's what I'm asking -- Why would it be important for them to make it look like they did not intend to interview Amanda if they really did?

 

[Mary_H]

If I was told "Nobody invited you"
Alright then I am free to leave, correct?

That may be why Rita claims to have said, "You could go to rest" -- to pretend they gave Amanda a choice.

They're such wily and practiced liars -- twisting things to their own benefit is second nature to them.

 

[anglolawyer]

She may mean before the "confession."



Yes, that's what I'm asking -- Why would it be important for them to make it look like they did not intend to interview Amanda if they really did?

To maintain the pretence that she was not a suspect.

 

[Mary_H]

To maintain the pretence that she was not a suspect.

That's a good explanation. It seems above their abilities to be able to plan such a ruse, but maybe so. Maybe they are used to doing it with everybody.

The fact that they talked to Raffaele about Amanda suggests they had plans to talk to her.

 

[Desert Fox]

That may be why Rita claims to have said, "You could go to rest" -- to pretend they gave Amanda a choice.

They're such wily and practiced liars -- twisting things to their own benefit is second nature to them.

I have a thought about what she could have done and might be the emergency escape. Lying to the cops is not a crime in Italy as long as you don't implicate somebody.

How about claiming you have some emergency medical problem? I would personally just claim I was about to faint due to low blood sugar.

 

[Planigale]

You are a young woman in a foreign country, your flatmate is raped and murdered, your flat is a crime scene. The murderer is still at large. Where do you go? Do you want to be left alone in a 'strange' flat? Do you want to walk home alone from the police station late at night, or even get in a taxi driven by a stranger? What I find unbelievable is how insensitive the police are. Of course she is clinging to the only person she really knows. She probably felt safe at the police station - almost the definition of irony.

 

[Samson]

Exactly! Its not that the Cali wacko from PMS 1 or 2 (I forget her handle at the moment) is correct about the money or is even a legal issue but it is a pillar they have used to create the osmosis effect.

Plus who cares if Chris cant remember or doesn't know about a 548 dollar whatever? Find out!

Its a frekin bank record! Banks are notorious for recording details about these transactions...something about trust and laws and keeping account. WTH? It may seem worthless but those who have followed the case for years know about these arguments and in fact we wonder why no one ever seems to bother dealing with the bigger ones.

This money thing is actually something quite relate-able to the case since they contend that MK money is missing and so if me I would damn well explain where my 548 bucks that I deposited (or if I even did) came from just in case...

Now I will say that apparently there is nothing in this money/deposit thing or else Mignini would have been all over that and we would have seen it in the case. And yet guys like Yummi feed people like Mignini (and company) data they gather from everywhere in order to force an osmosis of sorts.

The money argument makes Knox look bad. It is not chasing irrelevant accusations (since MK could have had money missing) and I think Charlie darn well knows that especially about this particular matter since there was some early backpedaling of something he posted about it long ago...and there have been hundreds of pages devoted to this matter and yet it would seem to be a simple and easily put to rest point. Here was the deposit and here is where it came from. Or else there was never any deposit so STFU!

Instead AK gets bamboozled on the blog? That's ridiculous.

A firewall around her of 5 or 6 (not me) experts who I can easily name a few great ones... would help her learn about her own case and the case of the PGP and even public opinion. They could review the comments and help prepare the correct reply. And several would do that freely and gladly...
Its a matter of stating facts correctly...nothing more.

Does Knox know one PMS'er claims to have a receipt for bleach? Does she know he has never produced it? Does it matter? Maybe. Because it proves he is a liar and a freak... and apparently a web site thief too, but I'm getting off topic...6 people... here and other places... could help her to not become tangled into sometimes well designed spiders web that are convoluted lies and falsehoods but none the less can confuse an already too lazy reporter who is working on the "real story".

Knox ignores this data at her own risk frankly.

We know the digestion data indicating TOD is powerful! We also know the TOD data is bolstered by strong circumstantial evidence that says MK was killed real close to 9:20 PM ....even RG testifies to that. Her scream was about 9:20 he said...huh. Funny time to randomly pick right?

And yet I don't recall that defense argument about highly likely TOD in any of the what...five trials? MK was dead by 9:20. Everything says that. Yet there was never an argument for that. No medical witness except easily fooled incompetents who allowed themselves to be outwitted by simply changing the argument...time to empty the stomach vs time for something to begin to move out of the stomach. And they knew almost exactly when the meal began...

Sorry but that would have ended the case. The defense barely even brought the matter up.

So ya...Knox needs help. Her lawyers are not helping her. The politicians in Italy have gone mute. This fight is still fully on and right now shes losing in case that has not struck home for her or her family or close friends yet.

Look how much hay can be made from an almost irrelevant phone call to mom that is being made. And its something like bank information that is recorded and kept and easy to find. So just do it! Or maybe cross your fingers harder...or maybe do both.

I would be studying and trying to understand what I'm up against. Sites like this are gold mines. We had Yummi telegraphing Italian thought process and legal logic here daily. Not only that but he is close enough to know Mignini at least...maybe more at worst.

I'm reminded that one should keep your friends close...and keep your enemies even closer. There will time for sitting in trees later.

Edward McCall says

"There are countless possible explanations for the $562 but whatever the reason it was something in the United States. There is no way to connect this to Meredith's stolen money."

But he is still wrong about everything else.