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Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

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It's well worth reading the whole piece, although it may already be dated thanks to the recent sudden acceleration in events.


No, thanks. That snippet is bizarre enough. Check the wikipedia page on Sergei Glazyev and explain to me how he is "the point man for Eurasian and Ukrainian policy in the Kremlin" like your good Professor claims. He has nothing to do with the Kremlin at all. And Dugin's closest political adaptor is Eduard Limonov ,who is together with Kasparov among the little bunch of bizarre opposition politicians regularly cheered for by "the West".
 
Exactly, and I wonder why the EU hasn't offered a real comprehensive deal. It seems like the EU wants to punish Ukraine for once having been involved with Russia. I don't see that as being fair to Ukrainians. The deal clearly sucks, I don't know why pro-EU integrationists can't see that. If you want Ukraine so bad, offer them a better deal that will prop up their economy during the transition.

There not even giving them deals on par with the deals given to most former Warsaw Pact EU members. It's a very crappy deal that will destroy the Ukr economy and make them submit on their knees.


It certainly isn't fair. But who shall feed 45 million Ukrainians to EU level when we have to bail out the Greeks Deutsche Bank already? I suspect that the real driving force here is that the US wants the Ukraine in NATO. Period.
 
It certainly isn't fair. But who shall feed 45 million Ukrainians to EU level when we have to bail out the Greeks Deutsche Bank already? I suspect that the real driving force here is that the US wants the Ukraine in NATO. Period.

Yeah that's unfortunate. Ukraine will become utterly bankrupt. EU and NATO will be that much closer to Russia's borders. The world will be that much closer to danger. Perhaps eastern Ukraine will have some commonsense and make things happen.
 
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No, thanks. That snippet is bizarre enough. Check the wikipedia page on Sergei Glazyev and explain to me how he is "the point man for Eurasian and Ukrainian policy in the Kremlin" like your good Professor claims. He has nothing to do with the Kremlin at all. And Dugin's closest political adaptor is Eduard Limonov ,who is together with Kasparov among the little bunch of bizarre opposition politicians regularly cheered for by "the West".


If you say so, although someone ought to tell Reuters that:

A senior Kremlin aide accused the United States on Thursday of arming Ukrainian "rebels" and, urging the Kiev government to put down what it called an attempted coup, warned it could intervene to maintain the security of its ex-Soviet neighbor.

Sergei Glazyev, an adviser to President Vladimir Putin with responsibility for relations with Ukraine, told a newspaper that U.S. "interference" breached the 1994 treaty under which Washington and Moscow jointly guaranteed Ukraine's security and sovereignty after Kiev gave up its Soviet-era nuclear arsenal.
 
Someone ought to tell the Moscow Times as well:

President Vladimir Putin has appointed an outspoken critic who once ran against him for president as a Kremlin aide.

Sergei Glazyev, 51, will coordinate the work of federal agencies in developing the Customs Union between Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, the Kremlin said in a brief online statement Monday.

In fact, sod that, someone better tell Putin:

Владимир Путин своим Указом назначил Сергея Глазьева советником Президента.

На С.Глазьева возложены обязанности по координации деятельности федеральных органов исполнительной власти, направленной на развитие евразийской интеграции в рамках Таможенного союза и Единого экономического пространства Российской Федерации, Республики Белоруссия и Республики Казахстан.
 
Oh, that's surprising. I stand corrected. Putin appoints an outspoken critic? Someone tell Captain America. And update the wikipedia article.
 
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Exactly, and I wonder why the EU hasn't offered a real comprehensive deal. It seems like the EU wants to punish Ukraine for once having been involved with Russia. I don't see that as being fair to Ukrainians. The deal clearly sucks, I don't know why pro-EU integrationists can't see that. If you want Ukraine so bad, offer them a better deal that will prop up their economy during the transition.

There not even giving them deals on par with the deals given to most former Warsaw Pact EU members. It's a very crappy deal that will destroy the Ukr economy and make them submit on their knees.

The protesters disagree. With only a scant few if any half-drunk raging Nazis among them, they were so fired up for the half-ass EU offer they re-named their main square and overthrew a government with waves of pure love[/s]
 
EU, U.S. Rush to Stabilize Ukraine After Ouster

The Obama administration worked Sunday with the European Union to forge a much-needed financial bailout of Ukraine, but also extended an olive branch to Russia by inviting it to join the effort.

The U.S. response to the removal of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych drove home the delicate balance the White House is seeking to strike as it tries to cement Ukraine's future with the West without provoking a Russian intervention in a country it has long considered a strategic ally.

Although the Ukrainian opposition's success in ousting Mr. Yanukovych suggests the West has gained the upper hand for now, the West has studiously avoided a declaration of victory out of recognition that doing so could fuel Russian President Vladimir Putin's determination to bring about a reversal.

"It's not in the interests of the Ukraine or of Russia or of Europe or of the United States to see the country split," President Barack Obama's national security advisor, Susan Rice, said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press," outlining one potential danger.

Addressing another, she added Moscow would be making a "grave mistake" if it sent armed forces into Ukraine to try to restore a compliant government. "It's in nobody's interest to see violence return and the situation escalate," she said. Though Russian officials haven't suggested that the Kremlin might respond militarily, some Western officials fear the possibility given Russia's military intervention in the former Soviet republic of Georgia in 2008.

Mr. Obama and other senior U.S. officials held extensive discussions with Mr. Putin and his top aides over the weekend in an effort to support a peaceful political transition away from Mr. Yanukovych, a close Putin ally, according to senior administration officials.

U.S. officials, in particular, sought to work with Moscow to fashion a multi-billion-dollar International Monetary Fund rescue package for Ukraine.

Sounds about right to me.
 
Sigh. We've been there already.

Yeah, and now we have evidence, just from a quick scan, suggesting they are angry Nazi mobs that haven't really changed. Logos and words vs. actions on video = no contest. We can't really know the percentages of white power thugs in there, but my hunch is it's way, way, higher than you're suggesting, which is roughly as much as your peaceful protesters image can handle.

In case somebody tries to use absence of reply in some arbitrary timespan again: Some of us have jobs and other interests to do beside just arguing on some forum. Or like some disappear themselves for longer periods, right CE?
Same boat. But over here it's the weekend at the moment, dunno about your time zone/schedule. And I am a nerd. Sorry if I was seeming to press your time.
 
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As for Caustic Logic's link regarding the Rabbi who is suggesting that Ukraine's Jewish population could be in danger: The same article mentions that he is one of two Rabbi's challenging the current head Rabbi, and that he is from a movement that is politically aligned with Russia. It is not clear to me how representative he is of Ukraine's Jews, or how his political alignment may be driving this, rather than actual anti-Semitic behavior.

Let's say there were even two other Rabbis contradicting him (made up). Are they pro-Western ones who received calls to downplay all the Nazi stuff, with promises that there will be no harm done, despite the threatening calls they all know about?

Otherwise, this does have the alarmist ring of a propaganda ploy, including the calls. Maybe it's all made up by a supporter of Yanukovych or a pro-Russia Ukraine, or just stability.

But here's a small lesson to not ignore. Even if his authority and support are in tatters to some degree, we know it's not absolute, and it might be underrated. Yanukovych still has suopporters, not just among Russians in the east, but Jews in Kiev. Food for thought. Or is it just the one Rabbi, really well paid off, as a stage prop? Could be.

AND, is he just shilling for Russia, sowing fear of Nazi thugs that don't or barely exist, as these violent mobs of disputed character swarm over Kiev? Or is there partly a real concern, or at least a real revulsion, at real Nazi thugs he knows more about than we do, underpinning his warnings/propaganda/whatever it was?
 
Don't put words into my mouth. I called him your "good professor" and that guilt-by-association chain he builds remains bizarre.

That's right, you called him my "good Professor" with the intention of belittling his expertise, which embarrassingly for you (or what should be embarrassing for you) turned out to be correct while your own analysis turned out to be objectively and demonstrably wrong. Again.

And of course, you avoided answering my question of whether or not you were going to read his analysis. You just maintain it is bizarre, though what you previously dismissed as bizarre turned out to be correct.

Besides, this why are you now so opposed to "that guilt by association chain" when it was your argumentative method in your earlier wrong post. What's this if not a "guilt-by-association chain"?

And Dugin's closest political adaptor is Eduard Limonov ,who is together with Kasparov among the little bunch of bizarre opposition politicians regularly cheered for by "the West".
 
That's right, you called him my "good Professor" with the intention of belittling his expertise, which embarrassingly for you (or what should be embarrassing for you) turned out to be correct while your own analysis turned out to be objectively and demonstrably wrong. Again.


It turned out that my assessment that he has nothing to do with the Kremlin wasn't up to speed with events of Summer 2012, when he was appointed aide for the coordination of the Commons Union, which doesn't make him what your good professor claims he is. The association with Dugin remains vague. I have no problem with being wrong on things like that, btw. I just don't like silly dishonest games like you tried to play before.

Besides, this why are you now so opposed to "that guilt by association chain" when it was your argumentative method in your earlier wrong post. What's this if not a "guilt-by-association chain"?


Your professor claims that because Alexander Dugin has an ideology that might be questionable in picking "the best" of Stalin and Hitler (debatable if that is a correct description but it goes in that direction), and a guy who is now Kremlin aide but has been an outspoken critic of Putin for his political career is in some way associated with Dugin's ideology, the Kremlin is in no position to point out neo-Nazi tendencies because they're guilty themselves. That's plain silly. Is that guy a member of Skull and Bones by any chance? ;):cool:

Limonov/Dugin is a direct connection and I giggled a couple of times when their comic-like "National Bolshevism" flags came into sight during some reports about the poor suppressed opposition. Look it up.
 
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It turned out that my assessment that he has nothing to do with the Kremlin wasn't up to speed with events of Summer 2012, when he was appointed aide for the coordination of the Commons Union, which doesn't make him what your good professor claims he is. The association with Dugin remains vague. I have no problem with being wrong on things like that, btw. I just don't like silly dishonest games like you tried to play before.

What "silly dishonest games" did I play?
 
What "silly dishonest games" did I play?


Accusing me of "lying about what you said before" when I originally stated that "the people filming the scene are the people shooting" and later that "I didn't say anything about who was shooting" - totally clear from context that I meant their identity in the latter statement, while I meant the personal union between (unidentified) shooters and filmers in the first statement.
 
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