Merged Global Warming Discussion II: Heated Conversation

[Haig]

Finally A Real Scientific Consensus – Everyone Agrees That The Recent Displaced Polar Vortex Wasn’t Caused By Global Warming

For anyone who was witness to the absurdity of the recent warming makes it cold meme, it should come as no surprise that even ardent Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming believers are trying to distance themselves from the meme before it causes more damage.

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/snow_thing_of_the-past.jpg

Breach of rule 5 removed. Do not hotlink images from elsewhere without permission.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/02/...x-wasnt-caused-by-global-warming/#more-103614

 

[greybeard]

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/02/...x-wasnt-caused-by-global-warming/#more-103614

Ah yes wattsupwiththat where people actually believe what non scientists like Lord Monckton tell them. Even though virtually everything he says has been debunked. Even things like whether he has had papers peer reviewed or whether he is an appointed reviewer for the IPCC yet they hang on to his every word. IMO it's just another conspiracy site like David Icke's forums.

 

[r-j]

Even though virtually everything he says has been debunked. .

Source please. I love a good debunking. I will even read a blog for a good debunking.

 

[Mikemcc]

Take your pick:

Hotwhopper
AndThenThereWasPhysics

And most notably Climate Asylum - Professor John Abraham's site, he has comprehensively demolished Moncktons claims.

 

[greybeard]

Source please. I love a good debunking. I will even read a blog for a good debunking.

Gordon Bennet! Do you actually follow the climate debate? Start with Prof. John Abraham's where he took lectures Monckton was giving apart line by line. Monckton's initial response to that was to go on the Alex Jones show and say that Abraham had a face like an overcooked prawn and to threaten Abraham's university. Then progress to Peter Hadfield's debunks where he contacts researchers to see if their research actually says what Monckton claims and invariably it didn't. There are many sites on the net where scientists debunk the stuff that he comes out with including the paper he says was peer reviewed. Just do an internet search and you could have many hours of fun.

 

[r-j]

I never see any debate. Just two sides both claiming victory and making fun or getting mad at the other side. Too much like politics.

 

[greybeard]

I never see any debate. Just two sides both claiming victory and making fun or getting mad at the other side. Too much like politics.

You are obviously looking in the wrong places. Abraham only used science to debunk Monckton. There was no making fun or claiming victory. He just showed where he had gone wrong. Monckton's response was to use the Alex Jones show to make fun of Abraham's appearance and to call the dean of the university a creep. How can anybody take wattsupwiththat seriously when he is one of their main contributors?

 

[macdoc]

BOTTOM LINE: The Pacific Ocean is now in a state that could reconstruct the base state of the Pacific, favoring an El Niño to develop later this Spring. That being said, it’s not a locked in solution yet as we need to monitor the atmosphere for future westerly wind bursts to help push the Western Pacific Warm Pool along. Thanks go to NOAA for providing the majority of the images used in this post..

Ouch

According to Dr. Michael Ventrice (operational scientist for the Energy team at Weather Services International), if westerly winds continue to blow significantly over West-Central Pacific, it has the potential to generate a major El Niño event.

thanks - good article
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/article.html?entrynum=2635

now all we need to do is cue up a cyclone or two on top of the warm water and I may be in for interesting times here in tropical Australia

 

[CapelDodger]

Still waiting for any evidence to support your claim. And by evidence, that means peer reviewed papers published in real science publications.

I mentioned Cowton and Way. Research does exist; if you folowed science you'd have some idea about it. On the particular subject of climate, ScepticalScience http://www.skepticalscience.com is an excellent way of keeping up. For science in general, try ScienceDaily http://www.sciencedaily.com.

Or you continue in your wilful ignorance, of course, whatever suits you. Just don't expect to convince anyone else that that's a great way to live, or that it will make the Pause real. It isn't.

(Out of interest, where did you get the impression that it ever was? Not from Haig, I hope; ignorance is actually preferable to getting information from such sources.)

 

[CapelDodger]

According to Dr. Michael Ventrice (operational scientist for the Energy team at Weather Services International), if westerly winds continue to blow significantly over West-Central Pacific, it has the potential to generate a major El Niño event.

Thanks for that, definitely something worth watching. In a way I'd prefer another few years without an ENSO event in order to get the background picture but while we can propose, nature disposes.

 

[CapelDodger]

I never see any debate.

Perhaps that's because your contributions fall short of being even debatable? Just a thought.

Just two sides both claiming victory and making fun or getting mad at the other side. Too much like politics.

You're only seeing one side, which is the political one, from where the anger and name-calling emerges. Just look at Spencer's latest melt-down, or Monckton's response when Abrahams calmly and politely exposed his lies (Monckton will forever remain associated with the term "bed-wetter", which was probably never his intention but there it is. He's not too bright; some trauma in a Harrow School dorm seems to have done as much mental damage as his medical condition).

Someone, I forget who, did start debating with Monckton online, rather than on a stage where Monckton can strut about spouting a Gish Gallop of rubbish. Monckton ran away from that almost before it had started.

All that aside, is there something you like to debate? Thermodynamics? Oceanography? The political agenda of ScepticalScience? Or something of your devising, it's all good. We'll have such fun, won't we?

 

[r-j]

Monckton's response was to use the Alex Jones show to make fun of Abraham's appearance and to call the dean of the university a creep. How can anybody take wattsupwiththat seriously when he is one of their main contributors?

I agree, the blogs are disgusting examples of the worst sort of hive mind, and immaturity. It's the opposite of science and decorum.

 

[CapelDodger]

Ah yes wattsupwiththat where people actually believe what non scientists like Lord Monckton tell them.

Not always; when Monckton acknowledged that the greenhouse effect exists he was condemned as a traitor by quite a large faction.

Even though virtually everything he says has been debunked.

Some things, of course, such as his cure for AIDS, can't actually be debunked because they are mere figments of a diseased mind.

 

[CapelDodger]

That's exactly the sort of thing I am speaking of. You offer no science, just words and insults, nobody learned a single thing from your post, except that you are insulting.]

But at least mildly amusing, I hope. And if you think that's me being insulting, it's not.

The reason why Monckton is associated with bed-wetting is that he uses the term a lot when anyone criticises his so-called work, however valid the criticisms might be. It's not a term many people use in my experience (not even when I was at a similar school). Monckton isn't especially associated with threats of legal action because that's a common trait amongst deniers.

You just made my point for me. That is exactly why I don't read blogs, or forums as well. It's immature, unscientific and you learn nothing of value.

I've learnt an enormous amount of value on this Forum, not least about climate science. Qite a lot of that comes from following links provided, admittedly (Nullus in Verba, as we used to say in school with our own particular slant), but much is provided and explained right here.

Even you have learnt that PNAS articles should be read in their entirety, not just up to the point where they say something you think is what you want to hear. It may not be.

 

[macdoc]

Brilliant video and the change is shocking. Apparently there were gasps from the scientists that viewed it.

http://news.sciencemag.org/climate/2014/02/video-polar-disaster-movie

CHICAGO, ILLINOIS—It’s not a secret that the Arctic Ocean is turning from white to blue as sea ice retreats. But a video compressing 25 years of satellite data into a single minute still drew gasps in a session here yesterday at the annual meeting of AAAS, which publishes Science

more

http://news.sciencemag.org/climate/2014/02/video-polar-disaster-movie

Dramatic visualiztion of the changes in a couple of decades....

 

[Mikemcc]

Particular the final 5 years. The change in the multi-year ice is shocking.

 

[macdoc]

Just to reiterate the point that some just don't seem to be able to comprehend....that global surface air temps are only one aspect of AGW......and a minor one in reality.

the globe – our planet – spans the oceans, atmosphere, land and ice systems in their entirety

Guest commentary by Matthew England (UNSW)

For a long time now climatologists have been tracking the global average air temperature as a measure of planetary climate variability and trends, even though this metric reflects just a tiny fraction of Earth’s net energy or heat content. But it’s used widely because it’s the metric that enjoys the densest array of in situ observations. The problem of course is that this quantity has so many bumps and kinks, pauses and accelerations that predicting its year-to-year path is a big challenge. Over the last century, no single forcing agent is clearer than anthropogenic greenhouse gases, yet zooming into years or decades, modes of variability become the signal, not the noise. Yet despite these basics of climate physics, any slowdown in the overall temperature trend sees lobby groups falsely claim that global warming is over. Never mind that the globe – our planet – spans the oceans, atmosphere, land and ice systems in their entirety.

more
http://www.realclimate.org

 

[macdoc]

Particular the final 5 years. The change in the multi-year ice is shocking.

Yeah and for all intents and purposes the ice shelves in the Arctic that persisted since the last ice age are gone entirely.

I recall this from a few years ago
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/10/30/2728700.htm

snip

Barber spoke shortly after returning from an expedition that sought - and largely failed to find - a huge multiyear ice pack that should have been in the Beaufort Sea off the Canadian coastal town of Tuktoyaktuk.

Instead, his ice breaker found hundreds of kilometres of what he calls "rotten ice" - 50 centimetre thin layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice.

"I've never seen anything like this in my 30 years of working in the high Arctic ... it was very dramatic," he says

 

[CapelDodger]

Yeah and for all intents and purposes the ice shelves in the Arctic that persisted since the last ice age are gone entirely.

The fjords are pining for them.

 

[macdoc]

Deciduously I'm sure

Hey if we have more energy in the systems will the decadal osciillations become more rapid in cycling???