Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

[Caustic Logic]

A Facebook post claims:

67 policemen taken a hostage by insurgents and their whereabouts, physical condition and conditions of imprisonment are uncertain.

Sounds nuts, worse than RT. There is a photo of police, at least 20 visible in a long row, beaten-up, cowed, being marched like prisoners in some open area under "protester" control.

Staged photo anyone?

The video McH thinks is faked is where the cops get firebombed. I'll have a version of that soon. You see the firebomb fly in the air (about two feet) and then hit them, and you hear the clink. Method acting?

 

[IDB87]

A Facebook post claims:

Sounds nuts, worse than RT. There is a photo of police, at least 20 visible in a long row, beaten-up, cowed, being marched like prisoners in some open area under "protester" control.

You are a rhetorical master.

Why do you say they're beaten up?
Why do you say they're cowed?
Who are they being "marched like prisoners" by? Follow up: How is a prisoner marched?
How do you distinguish this line from a conga line?

 

[angrysoba]

Saw Wildcat's video. Yikes. Svoboda rebels posted that themselves? With the RFE/RL-inspired logo? I had the feeling the one cop who passed out short of the police line and was dragged back would wind up dead, but that's just me being dark. He clearly didn't want to loose consciousness in their grasp, anyway. Poor guy.

No, it is not "RFE"-inspired. RadioSvoboda is RFE:

http://www.rferl.org/section/ukraine/164.html

Ukranian site:

http://www.radiosvoboda.org/

 

[Caustic Logic]

No, it is not "RFE"-inspired. RadioSvoboda is RFE:

http://www.rferl.org/section/ukraine/164.html

Ukranian site:

http://www.radiosvoboda.org/

Huh ... must then have a ubiquitous meaning aside from the party. One hopes. And I probably look like an idiot not knowing it.

Okay, it took too long to render, but ... first, we think this - the video Wildcat brought - is genuine, right? (kidding - I see that's not accepted by most of y'all). But that cop I mentioned, who Crescent might've noticed - he's getting kicked, etc, is hunched over, but then is able to get up - and run just a few steps. Then he falls flat, out cold, Like, three seconds. Then they drag him back.

A bit odd, but it's only when I slow down and zoom in I can clearly see they're not just kicking the poor guy. One masked assailant jabs him in the shoulder with a cylindrical object, metal, slender, about 8 inches long. Then he just jumps back as if he's done something, and the cop - maybe held down previously, rises and does that odd thing, as if hit with a tranquilizer dart.

This made me shake as I saw it. Some cool water might help, but I expect lukewarm. Enhanced video within a day, but if anyone can make it out or try to make out how it's nothing, see time-stamp: 0:28, right above the word Svoboda.

If that's the case, could this kind of professional approach help explain how they might get 67 police captives?

 

[crescent]

A Facebook post claims:

Sounds nuts, worse than RT. There is a photo of police, at least 20 visible in a long row, beaten-up, cowed, being marched like prisoners in some open area under "protester" control.

The BBC reported that the protestors released the captured police last night. They debated for a while as to whether or not they should hold them and only release them in return for the release of protestors captured by the police, but then decided to release them without condition, as a show of good faith.

 

[Caustic Logic]

You are a rhetorical master.

Why do you say they're beaten up?
Why do you say they're cowed?
Who are they being "marched like prisoners" by? Follow up: How is a prisoner marched?
How do you distinguish this line from a conga line?

Extremely awesome points. [/s]

 

[Klimax]

...
Luckily we can be sure "protesters" did not steal thousands of rifles from an armory. Because RT reported that as fact, it can only be the opposite. If it's reported they used the rifles to score some RPGs and a tank, that too will be untrue, except hopefully. [/sarcasm]

So what's the death toll by now?

Do not try to misrepresent my position regarding things reported by RT. I stated they are in doubt, not that opposite happened/never happened. Things reports by RT have simply too low confidence and thus can't be used.

Misrepresenting someone's position is strawmen argument and thus invalid.

 

[crescent]

The BBC live feed is always interesting to follow.

It has been reporting a number of chartered flights leaving Kiev, many more than normal. They are thought to be carrying pro-Russian MPs and their families. One loaded a bunch of suitcases taken directly from an armored security van of the sort used by banks to transport cash.

More alarming, there are more reports of gunfire, along with reports of some hundred or so police defecting to the protestor side, and more protestors arriving with hunting rifles.

They seem tp have reached an agreement, but it is not clear if anyone has enough control or influence over the protestors or police to actually make the violence stop.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Do not try to misrepresent my position regarding things reported by RT. I stated they are in doubt, not that opposite happened/never happened. Things reports by RT have simply too low confidence and thus can't be used.

Misrepresenting someone's position is strawmen argument and thus invalid.

Exaggerated re-interpretation/passive-aggressive shaming techniques, etc. I has many weapons. Also, it was aimed at all such, not just you.

I want to hear about this tranquilizing cylinder I'm seeing used against cops. What do you see there?

 

[Caustic Logic]

The BBC live feed is always interesting to follow.

It has been reporting a number of chartered flights leaving Kiev, many more than normal. They are thought to be carrying pro-Russian MPs and their families. One loaded a bunch of suitcases taken directly from an armored security van of the sort used by banks to transport cash.

More alarming, there are more reports of gunfire, along with reports of some hundred or so police defecting to the protestor side, and more protestors arriving with hunting rifles.

They seem tp have reached an agreement, but it is not clear if anyone has enough control or influence over the protestors or police to actually make the violence stop.

Thanks. Note: "some hundred or so police defecting to the protestor side" = 67 +

ETA: I see the later post. All reports to be considered and correlated (not by me, by whoever else decides to do that)

 

[IDB87]

Extremely awesome points. [/s]

I appreciate the condescension and isolation of dissenting opinions.

I'm just asking you to establish your criteria. I saw one sooty face. Is that the guy whose beaten up?

 

[Childlike Empress]

Video fakery? The stupidity and/or chutzpah is breathtaking.

Here's a video for y'all from yesterday with plenty of "firebombed" police. It's on the channel of Pravvy Sektor (Right sector), the coalition of ultra-fascist militias (officially) even too extreme for Svoboda. You can surf a bit on their channel for more. Enjoy.


And here's a gallery of images i'm sure some will find themselves unable to process, just like Obama.

 

[Caustic Logic]

I appreciate the condescension and isolation of dissenting opinions.

I'm just asking you to establish your criteria. I saw one sooty face. Is that the guy whose beaten up?

Post +*picture + subjective reading = about all I had time for.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

"The stupidity and/or chutzpah is breathtaking."
You know, if you're going to resort to hit-and-run posting, you could at least try to be polite about it.

 

[Caustic Logic]

I was wrong. False alarm. His head even jerks as he falls, like a sudden neuro-toxin onset. But all considered, they seem to tear a device off his shoulder, at which point he runs, and get knocked out by a rock to the back of the head thrown by a dude a few meters behind and to his left.

Gnite

 

[Childlike Empress]

Now we have a "compromise", a "peace treaty" even (English language document provided by the German foreign ministry). Signed by the president, the boxer, Nuland's boy and the neo-nazi. Witnessed and co-signed by the foreign ministers of Germany, France, Poland and the Russian special envoy. Hallelujah! And this with the man who has just ordered to kill dozens of his own people in broad daylight a day earlier, if you believe what the media reports and Obama claims. Which of course none of those who signed the document do. But we should be outraged, shouldn't we? The "right sector" guys have already declared that this is far from enough.

 

[Klimax]

Exaggerated re-interpretation/passive-aggressive shaming techniques, etc. I has many weapons. Also, it was aimed at all such, not just you.

I want to hear about this tranquilizing cylinder I'm seeing used against cops. What do you see there?

I suggest to forget those listed weapons as those usually are falling very often into category of logical fallacies or being just nonsense. (And they don't help your argument one bit)

 

[Klimax]

Now we have a "compromise", a "peace treaty" even (English language document provided by the German foreign ministry). Signed by the president, the boxer, Nuland's boy and the neo-nazi. Witnessed and co-signed by the foreign ministers of Germany, France, Poland and the Russian special envoy. Hallelujah! And this with the man who has just ordered to kill dozens of his own people in broad daylight a day earlier, if you believe what the media reports and Obama claims. Which of course none of those who signed the document do. But we should be outraged, shouldn't we? The "right sector" guys have already declared that this is far from enough.

Not surprising. Anything and everything is wrong and bad. Obviously. One should ignore everything inconvenient like that opposition got most of its goals. (At least moderate part of it)

The only good thing would be to you that Russians would gain the hold on Ukraine, because everything would be nice and dandy...

 

[marplots]

I didn't see this one here yet, real bad stuff happening! Sounds like a lot of gunfire.



Pics here: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-shocking-photos-injured-dead-kiev-1437260

That last pic is a protestor with an air rifle, they'll need better than that.

Are you saying the protestors should be using firearms against the police?

 

[A'isha]

Now we have a "compromise", a "peace treaty" even (English language document provided by the German foreign ministry). Signed by the president, the boxer, Nuland's boy and the neo-nazi. Witnessed and co-signed by the foreign ministers of Germany, France, Poland and the Russian special envoy. Hallelujah! And this with the man who has just ordered to kill dozens of his own people in broad daylight a day earlier, if you believe what the media reports and Obama claims. Which of course none of those who signed the document do. But we should be outraged, shouldn't we? The "right sector" guys have already declared that this is far from enough.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...st-leaders-Sign-deal-or-you-will-all-die.html

The Polish foreign minister has been filmed telling a protest leader that if the opposition did not sign up to a deal offered by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych "you will all be dead".

Radoslaw Sikorski, one of three European foreign ministers who brokered Friday's agreement to end the bloody standoff, was emerging from talks with opposition leaders when he issued the stark warning.

"If you don't support this [deal] you'll have martial law, the army. You will all be dead," he said, in comments that were captured on film by ITV News.