Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[platonov]

Wow

Doug Bremner brother of AK's lawyer compared Kerchers to Nazis. As bad as that other supporter Nigel Scott who secretly took Sollecito to the gravesite. Then Steve Moore making a fool of himself on CNN with the SC knowing and protecting the "informant"Guede. All deserving of being photo shopped. We have to laugh or we would cry.

Hold on.
Anne Bremner - she was the hand waving lady in the BBC production ? Right.
She was mentioned on this thread ages ago -[apparently Mignini's minions in the Seattle cops tried to frame her or something]

And Harry Rug is her brother.

Wow --- sibling rivalry or what !

This seems weird.

 

[Briars]

Hold on.
Anne Bremner - she was the hand waving lady in the BBC production ? Right.
She was mentioned on this thread ages ago -[apparently Mignini's minions in the Seattle cops tried to frame her or something]

And Harry Rug is her brother.

Wow --- sibling rivalry or what !

This seems weird.

No weird yes but not that weird. Doug Bremner is shrink/ film maker big supporter of sis and Amanda. He was the guy with the pirate patch holding up the misspelt sign Amanda e Raf sono innocenti. He also posted a tweet saying the Kerchers were like the Nazis this week.

 

[Samson]

Doug Bremner brother of AK's lawyer compared Kerchers to Nazis. As bad as that other supporter Nigel Scott who secretly took Sollecito to the gravesite. Then Steve Moore making a fool of himself on CNN with the SC knowing and protecting the "informant"Guede. All deserving of being photo shopped. We have to laugh or we would cry.

Lyle Kercher has just actively prosecuted and secured the conviction of Amanda and Raffaele. He has refused to read the first hand accounts of these two or furnished his own crime theory and timeline, and is demanding Amanda's immediate incarceration.
Nice guy.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Forensic Science Service

Briars,

What did you think of Peter Gill's comments about the DNA evidence in this case? The BBC Radio did a broadcast today.

 

[yimyammer]

Well a lawsuit against BBC/NBC would be as serious as a heart attack IMHO. A radio report? Not so much.

But I remain ever hopeful. The whole world cant be fools forever, can it?

Aren't the laws much more strict regarding libel/slander in the UK? Does the UK press have the same freedom to publish seemingly anything like the US press does?

Would I be wrong to assume the BBC's legal department must have felt the view presented in this show without fear of financial repercussions/lawsuits?

I can't help but assume they believe they have the necessary documents to support the view shown regardless of what I or anyone else may think about the conclusions presented.

I suspect the only repercussions will be further screaming into the wind by those of us that feel AK/Raf are innocent

 

[anglolawyer]

No weird yes but not that weird. Doug Bremner is shrink/ film maker big supporter of sis and Amanda. He was the guy with the pirate patch holding up the misspelt sign Amanda e Raf sono innocenti. He also posted a tweet saying the Kerchers were like the Nazis this week.

Briars

You and Platonov currently uphold the PGP corner on the thread. Given your penchant for drawing higher-level inferences from apparent inconsistencies (like with Filomena's open/closed/slightly ajar door) may I ask your opinion about Patrick's arrest? It seems his apartment was not sealed off and searched e.g. for knives, clothes or the phone from which the cops thought he had. sent a crucial message. Why do you think that was?

I should say, in case you ask, that I myself have no clue what the answer could be. I think the cops really thought Patrick had done it at that point and I am baffled that they left his wife in control of the place. Platonov might take a break from whatever s/he thinks s/he is achieving and have a go at this one.

 

[LondonJohn]

platonov,

I thought your comments at the time were nonsensical, and in reviewing the exchange, I have come to the conclusion that I was correct. As to more important matters, what is your narrative/timeline of the crime?

Yes.

By platonov's ludicrous (and, frankly, offensive) metric, anyone campaigning for (say) Charles Manson to be denied parole is an anti-white racist. Because Manson is, ya see, white.

Truly fabulous critical thinking and open-mindedness from platonov here. Randi - and Socrates - would be proud indeed.

 

[Grinder]

Doug Bremner brother of AK's lawyer compared Kerchers to Nazis. As bad as that other supporter Nigel Scott who secretly took Sollecito to the gravesite. Then Steve Moore making a fool of himself on CNN with the SC knowing and protecting the "informant"Guede. All deserving of being photo shopped. We have to laugh or we would cry.

To start out with Bremner is not AK's lawyer. She was a founding member of FOA but not as Amanda's lawyer.

While I believe it was a mistake for PR reasons for Raf to have visited the grave, I don't see it as some great violation. IIRC he may have mentioned it himself which gives fuel to my idea that he isn't glib or very bright and that's why the defense didn't call him.

Not a big fan of Moore. Can you explain why Rudy wasn't detained when found in the nursery with stolen electronics from the lawyers in Perugia? Why would the PLE just have him sent home? Doesn't it make you wonder a little about the drug dealing of Rudy, Kokomania and Curatolo? Isn't it odd that no mention of Curatolo's 2003 arrest was made until 2010 and that Koko was convicted of dealing after the 2009 trial but before the appeal.

Why do any of these things you mentioned deserve to be photo shopped? Deserve? I have no problem with criticizing them but making grotesque pictures of people because you disagree with them?

 

[acbytesla]

We will likely see when the motivation report comes out that the court has accepted that B=Kercher and I=Knox.

Allow me to predict what the motivation will say. It will say that while 36I sample did not provide any additional incriminating evidence it did not demonstrate that sample 36B was tainted. The defense is responsible to prove that there was contamination involved as was required by the ISC.

(Never mind, that even the RIS said that multiple tests are needed to confirm initial incriminating results.)

 

[Grinder]

Allow me to predict what the motivation will say. It will say that while 36I sample did not provide any additional incriminating evidence it did not demonstrate that sample 36B was tainted. The defense is responsible to prove that there was contamination involved as was required by the ISC.

(Never mind, that even the RIS said that multiple tests are needed to confirm initial incriminating results.)

Great that must mean you have a translation of the RIS report. Could you provide a link and if it's at a closed site like IIP then PM the part covering the knife.

Thanks

 

[Grinder]

Lyle Kercher has just actively prosecuted and secured the conviction of Amanda and Raffaele. He has refused to read the first hand accounts of these two or furnished his own crime theory and timeline, and is demanding Amanda's immediate incarceration.
Nice guy.

He didn't prosecute anyone. The Italian system allowing the victim's attorneys in court is absurd but certainly not Nazi like.

It was stupid to make any reference to the Kerchers as being Nazi like. They are more like victims of torture than torturers.

 

[katy_did]

Briars,

What did you think of Peter Gill's comments about the DNA evidence in this case? The BBC Radio did a broadcast today.

Peter Gill formerly worked at the Forensic Science Service between 1982-2008. He began research into DNA in 1985, collaborating with Sir Alec Jeffreys of Leicester University. In the same year they published the first demonstration of the forensic application of DNA profiling. In 1989 he was given an award under the civil service inventors scheme for my discovery of the preferential sperm DNA extraction technique and the development of associated forensic tests.

In 1993-4 he was responsible for leading the team which confirmed the identity of the remains of the Romanov family, murdered in 1918, and also the subsequent investigation which disproved the claim of Anna Anderson to be the Duchess Anastasia.

Peter Gill has been involved with giving evidence in several high profile (controversial) cases – including the Doheny / Adams appeals, and the Omagh bombing trial.

His current roles since 2008 are: Senior Lecturer University of Strathclyde, UK and Professor of Legal Medicine, University of Oslo, Norway.

He has published more than 100 papers in the international scientific literature – many of these are collaborative papers under the auspices of ISFG, EDNAP and ENFSI. He is actively promoting the new methodology to interpret DNA profiles by leading on international workshops on the subject.

He is on the editorial boards of Forensic Science International (Genetics) and International Journal of Legal Medicine. He frequently reviews for other journals such as Biotechniques and Nature Genetics.

Main research interests:

• Development of interpretation strategies (e.g. analysis of mixtures) and their incorporation into expert systems.

• The development of new biochemical systems and markers.

• Experimental design and analysis of data to guide formation of pan-European DNA databases.

Yes that's all well and good Chris, but what's his maths like?

 

[Briars]

Briars

You and Platonov currently uphold the PGP corner on the thread. Given your penchant for drawing higher-level inferences from apparent inconsistencies (like with Filomena's open/closed/slightly ajar door) may I ask your opinion about Patrick's arrest? It seems his apartment was not sealed off and searched e.g. for knives, clothes or the phone from which the cops thought he had. sent a crucial message. Why do you think that was?

I should say, in case you ask, that I myself have no clue what the answer could be. I think the cops really thought Patrick had done it at that point and I am baffled that they left his wife in control of the place. Platonov might take a break from whatever s/he thinks s/he is achieving and have a go at this one.

That is a question that I really don't have enough information about.Do you have cite that disputes a search of his home?I know Lumumba's bar was closed and I presume searched.
Amanda told a story of running into Lumumba and returning with him to the cottage. The cottage knives were searched and Amanda was brought back to view the drawer.
If you are also suggesting the police had the name Lumumba and wanted to frame him that is absurd. I listened to the recent recording of how she came to name Lumumba. It is completely consistent with the police acting on new information from RS that she went out. She is told we know you went out , we have this message on your phone, who did you meet?. She provides the name Lumumba . A person never considered before by the police is now the main suspect. In fact the police must have been certain they had their man from what Amanda said. Amanda told them what they now knew to be true that she had gone out ,met someone caso chiuso. An unfortunate but understandable comment.
Amanda was not threatened , she no doubt was told she was a liar because they now knew she went out. She tells Mignini in jail she was stressed tired it was the middle of the night and they called her a liar. Big deal she normally was up till after 2am, and she had had the entire day off. A midnight confession after a brief interview does not justify her lying about Lumumba. Fear that her accomplice in the other room was spilling the beans made her jump on the name on her phone.
The creepy coincidence of meeting at court where Guede hung out, the sexual assault , the black man the banging noise in the room and the terrible scream all fit. Mignini said she covered her ears when looking at the cottage knives and had an emotional reaction the sound may haunt her.

 

[acbytesla]

Great that must mean you have a translation of the RIS report. Could you provide a link and if it's at a closed site like IIP then PM the part covering the knife.

Thanks

No I don't. That was the media reported testimony of the RIS tech that testified

 

[Grinder]

Yes that's all well and good Chris, but what's his maths like?

I would guess very Thoughtful

 

[Desert Fox]

The creepy coincidence of meeting at court where Guede hung out, the sexual assault , the black man the banging noise in the room and the terrible scream all fit. Mignini said she covered her ears when looking at the cottage knives and had an emotional reaction the sound may haunt her.

When did he record this? Remember how fallible human memory is?
It is very easy to misremember when you think you observed something.
All of us have false memories in us.

 

[Briars]

To start out with Bremner is not AK's lawyer. She was a founding member of FOA but not as Amanda's lawyer.

While I believe it was a mistake for PR reasons for Raf to have visited the grave, I don't see it as some great violation. IIRC he may have mentioned it himself which gives fuel to my idea that he isn't glib or very bright and that's why the defense didn't call him.

Not a big fan of Moore. Can you explain why Rudy wasn't detained when found in the nursery with stolen electronics from the lawyers in Perugia? Why would the PLE just have him sent home? Doesn't it make you wonder a little about the drug dealing of Rudy, Kokomania and Curatolo? Isn't it odd that no mention of Curatolo's 2003 arrest was made until 2010 and that Koko was convicted of dealing after the 2009 trial but before the appeal.

Why do any of these things you mentioned deserve to be photo shopped? Deserve? I have no problem with criticizing them but making grotesque pictures of people because you disagree with them?

I don't agree they got off easy , and hopefully they will think twice before any more pathetic statements or vile intrusion on Meredith's grave. Criticism is not a word that fits here.

 

[Grinder]

That is a question that I really don't have enough information about.Do you have cite that diaputes a search of his home?I know Lumumba's bar was closed and I presume searched.
Amanda told a story of running into Lumumba and returning with him to the cottage. The cottage knives were searched and Amanda was brought back to view the drawer.
If you are also suggesting the police had the name Lumumba and wanted to frame him that is absurd. I listened to the recent recording of how she came to name Lumumba. It is completely consistent with the police acting on new information from RS that she went out. She is told we know you went out , we have this message on your phone, who did you meet?. She provides the name Lumumba . A person never considered before by the police is now the main suspect. In fact the police must have been certain they had their man from what Amanda said. Amanda told them what they now knew to be true that she had gone out ,met someone caso chiuso. An unfortunate but understandable comment.
Amanda was not threatened , she no doubt was told she was a liar because they now knew she went out. She tells Mignini in jail she was stressed tired it was the middle of the night and they called her a liar. Big deal she normally was up till after 2am, and she had had the entire day off. A midnight confession after a brief interview does not justify her lying about Lumumba. Fear that her accomplice in the other room was spilling the beans made her jump on the name on her phone.
The creepy coincidence of meeting at court where Guede hung out, the sexual assault , the black man the banging noise in the room and the terrible scream all fit. Mignini said she covered her ears when looking at the cottage knives and had an emotional reaction the sound may haunt her.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste or as Dan Quayle said "What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."

There is no record of any knife being tested that came from the cottage, Patrick's bar or apartment. Hard to prove negatives but we have no reports of sealing his home and the family being moved out.

The coincidence of meeting at the nearest public place to the cottage, not significant. The rest of the stuff isn't really surprising. Loud noises, screaming (I think it was Nara a year later that said it was terrible) and having an anxiety attack when shown knives that police thought might have killed her roommate. Yes damning.


They knew she went out hmmmmm, how would that be? Her naming Patrick had nothing to do with Raf but only the text message that they thought was the connection.

If she thought Raf was going to spill the beans, which would mean incriminating himself, why wouldn't she say that Rudy and Raf raped and killed Meredith and said she'd be next if she talked.

Do you think that she thought if Raf spilled the beans some story about Patrick would save her?

 

[acbytesla]

I don't agree they got off easy , and hopefully they will think twice before any more pathetic statements or vile intrusion on Meredith's grave. Criticism is not a word that fits here.

Here is the question for you Briars. If you knew that Raffaele was innocent. Or if Raffaele was innocent, is is it really a vile intrusion for Raffaele to visit her grave? Even if her parents wouldn't have wanted him to?

This is a serious question.

 

[Grinder]

No I don't. That was the media reported testimony of the RIS tech that testified

Do you have a link to an Italian source or at least a solid English source?