Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

[Klimax]

...
Klimax, re: flippant language - duly noted. That's me being a bit smart-ass. But still - most heavily in favor of a party that has to clarify it's not Nazi anymore, and its leader I guess no longer strikes poses like this. I'm genuinely pretty behind. But I'm not liking the tone of some of these protesters. Or the looks of these ones.

That is, why they never gained traction till recently. No idea if they changed for real or only façade, that would be told by those counties they won.

As for protesters, you will always find extremists attracted to events like this, because they want to have attention, they want to be seen. (I got to see it in my own country, where they got quite a lot of headlines and attention despite being very small political minority and never getting too many votes)

As for cops, let me see ... Petri mentioned it at the Syria Wiki ... interesting page, BTW - citing:
RT - whatever you think, usually doesn't just make stuff like this up:


And then RT again, saying Rioters seize over 1,500 guns in Ukraine mayhem - security services.

Cue the surge of murky political murders and revenge massacres across rural Ukraine? Yeah, that reading too far ahead.

RT? Not a source. It is as trustworthy as Putin or Bagdad Bob... (And I am pretty sure they made up quite few things already over their existence and their sources are often people like Alex Jones, so...)

 

[Caustic Logic]

RT? Not a source.

I hope you're not trying to call me a liar. (You asked for a source, and that's what I provided)

Whatever you call it, man, that's the ... place ... where I happen to have heard the claim. It could be true and your extremely boring source analysis just a repetitive sidetrack. But at least you haven't claimed (yet) that the video RT shot was staged.

 

[The Big Dog]

I told you to pay attention to the bullet hitting the tree (0:20) and where the people are looking after that. Would the bullets come from the direction they are shielding against, the bullet wound at the tree wouldn't be visible from the camera position and the people wouldn't look in the direction of the camera. Also, other people are hit hiding behind their shields. They were surprise-shot from the direction of the camera, it's really quite obvious.

That is utterly ridiculous. There is absolutely nothing in that video that indicates that they were being shot from behind. You seem to be concluding that the freaking people who were shot didn't know from which direction they were getting shot?

Ah well, it is moot anyway:

"For the purpose of preserving the lives and wellbeing of law enforcement officials, a decision was taken ... to use weapons in self defence," the interior ministry said in a statement, adding that its staff "have the right to use firearms" if their lives or wellbeing are threatened.

 

[Childlike Empress]

*denial*

Yawn. I didn't make any statements about who I think is shooting here, btw, so I really don't know why you're acting like a stubborn child against the obvious.

 

[Checkmite]

It's well known and established that the protesters are not completely helpless. They do indeed have Molotovs and fireworks, along with slingshots, and over the past two days had been shooting these across the barricades as the police continued to fire volleys of stun and flash grenades. It would not surprise me in the least if some of them had small arms or threw a Molotov at withdrawing police.

But it's silly to insist for instance based on the interpretation of a single shot on the video that "all the shooting is coming from the protesters" or anything like this. The videos don't contain enough information and are also edited, perhaps selectively.

It is worth noting that the police forces and protest group are not the only two groups of ostensibly armed "combatants" in Kiev. There are also what the protesters call "titushky", hired thugs.

 

[Checkmite]

Ha.

 

[The Big Dog]

*denial with false statements*

"For the purpose of preserving the lives and wellbeing of law enforcement officials, a decision was taken ... to use weapons in self defence," the interior ministry said in a statement, adding that its staff "have the right to use firearms" if their lives or wellbeing are threatened.

 

[Klimax]

I hope you're not trying to call me a liar. (You asked for a source, and that's what I provided)

Whatever you call it, man, that's the ... place ... where I happen to have heard the claim. It could be true and your extremely boring source analysis just a repetitive sidetrack. But at least you haven't claimed (yet) that the video RT shot was staged.

Well, in that case said event is in severe doubt of actually happening as stated.

Note: Nope, not a liar, just telling you that RT is not a source to use, due to massive problems. RT is significantly more problematic then Fox News (or similar outlets) and is more or less propaganda machine...

BTW: I don't think there is possibility of having evidence for such extraordinary claim that they actually staged it. Good selection of shots and some cropping and maybe some photoshopping can get audience to think what you want regardless of reality and truth. Not first nor last incident. (And not just by RT either of course...)

 

[The Big Dog]

Yawn. I didn't make any statements about who I think is shooting here, btw, so I really don't know why you're acting like a stubborn child against the obvious.

Actual video of the actual snipers:

http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/20/kiev-sniper-video-shows-ukraine-protesters-being-picked-off-by-police-4311768/

Pretty obvious indeed.

Can someone quote this? some are in denial....

 

[Checkmite]

The latest reports are that dozens of members of parliament and other government officials have resigned their membership in the president's political party, the Party of Regions; among them this afternoon is the mayor of Kiev.

Protesters are reporting that it was apparently Svoboda Party followers that engaged in violence against the police after last night's truce brokered by the president and "Euromaidan" opposition leaders was called. They also insist, however, that police have since responded with indiscriminate gunfire, including in some places where they weren't being shot at.

 

[IDB87]

Actual video of the actual snipers:

http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/20/kiev-sniper-video-shows-ukraine-protesters-being-picked-off-by-police-4311768/

Pretty obvious indeed.

Can someone quote this? some are in denial....

Obviously it's a protester who infiltrated the police ranks. Notice how he's not wearing a yellow armband? Dead give away.

 

[Checkmite]

A statement from the Ukraine Ministry of Foreign Affairs seems to advocate for EU alliance:

At the time when the eyes of the world are turned to Ukraine, when our brothers and sisters lose their lives on the streets of Ukrainian cities, Ukrainian diplomats cannot stay aside.

Under these conditions, our primary mission is a true and impartial informing the international community about the situation in our country, as well as protection of national interests of Ukraine, the Ukrainian people, and each and every Ukrainian citizen.

We have always been and will be guided by the basic principles - independence of Ukraine, safeguarding through diplomatic means its sovereignty and territorial integrity. Therefore we cannot but respond to some statements coming both from inside and outside of Ukraine about a possible split of our country. We strongly condemn such statements and express our utmost support for Ukraine as a single, unitary, and European State.

We believe that now is the time for compromise. We urge all parties to do everything to ensure that our country has ceased the bloodshed.

When the conflict is still underway, remember that the common European values unite Ukrainian citizens with each other. We believe that the signing of the Ukraine-EU Association Agreement, the support of which has in fact become a cornerstone for Euromaidan, can unite us all.

Interesting.

 

[trustbutverify]

More Nazis. Or maybe the imperialists got to them, as our truther friends contend.

 

[dudalb]

Looks as though Ukraine is going to have the worst period of violence since 1941-44.....

 

[angrysoba]

Yawn. I didn't make any statements about who I think is shooting here, btw, so I really don't know why you're acting like a stubborn child against the obvious.

That's demonstrably untrue isn't it. Read your first post on this video again:

More escalation - now there are snipers shooting people in broad daylight, both police and demonstrators. Apparently dozens dead. Just like in Libya, Syria, Egypt, etc. Here's a video making the round (people get killed, NSFW). Look at around 20 seconds in, how the bullet hits the tree and where the people are looking at. They get shot from behind - the people filming are the people shooting.

I'll put those statements side-by-side to avoid any confusion for you:

the people filming are the people shooting.

I didn't make any statements about who I think is shooting here

As for the rest:

Yawn. I didn't make any statements about who I think is shooting here, btw, so I really don't know why you're acting like a stubborn child against the obvious.

This is just rude.

I addressed your post and explained what I thought was going on. To you it seems "obvious" that the people filming were the people shooting, and to me it is by no means obvious at all. To me it seems far more likely that the bullet you pointed out was coming from in front of the demonstrators and hit the tree at an angle which sprayed up some tree splinters in the direction of the demonstrators.

If you are just going to "reply" to me by saying "Yawn", then lying about what you had previously said, then calling me a stubborn child then why should I continue to engage you in good faith as I have done up until now on this thread.

 

[WildCat]

I didn't see this one here yet, real bad stuff happening! Sounds like a lot of gunfire.



Pics here: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-shocking-photos-injured-dead-kiev-1437260

That last pic is a protestor with an air rifle, they'll need better than that.

 

[dudalb]

If nothing else, this thread shows that "Useful Idiots" are alive and well.

 

[dudalb]

Well, in that case said event is in severe doubt of actually happening as stated.

Note: Nope, not a liar, just telling you that RT is not a source to use, due to massive problems. RT is significantly more problematic then Fox News (or similar outlets) and is more or less propaganda machine...

BTW: I don't think there is possibility of having evidence for such extraordinary claim that they actually staged it. Good selection of shots and some cropping and maybe some photoshopping can get audience to think what you want regardless of reality and truth. Not first nor last incident. (And not just by RT either of course...)

Just have to repeat my previous statement that having Alex Young as one of it's American Correspondents is reason enough to put RT in the "Very Unreliable" category of sources.

 

[NoahFence]

This is going to be even more of a disaster after the Olympics and Putin turns his eyes to the Ukraine. He'll need something to take the sting off of the hockey team...

 

[angrysoba]

This is going to be even more of a disaster after the Olympics and Putin turns his eyes to the Ukraine. He'll need something to take the sting off of the hockey team...

Putin's quite lucky actually. If a bunch of young Russian women spent most of their time thinking and talking about me and as a collective called themselves "Pussy Riot" I would be so happy!