Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[RoseMontague]

Planigale,

Platonov made the same sorts of claims against me. Fortunately my public stances about the cases of Farah Jama, Eric Frimpong, and the multiple defendants in Tulia, Texas show how shallow and foolish a charge of racism is.

It's a strange argument they make Chris. It seems almost if they think Rudy is innocent. Otherwise, they also think the black guy did it. The evidence shows his guilt in this case.

 

[AmyStrange]

New Language Software Advertisement Campaign

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There are lots of miscarriages of justice in this case. First and foremost is that
Meredith was murdered
that her parents are heartbroken
that Amanda and Raffaele had to go to prison.
That the taxpayers of Italy had to pay for this farce.
The Amanda and Raffaele's family had to suffer through this farce.
That Amanda probably learned how to speak "excellent Italian" and she probably can never go back and practice her skill.

Maybe Perugia can promote "Amanda" immersion Italian? Spend 4 years in our prison and you will have mastered a new language!!!!

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New Advertising from "Rosetta Stone" one of the leading Language Learning Software Programs around: It's like spending four years learning Italian in an Italian Prison rolled into one easy to use software program. Learn Italian without all the hassle and minus all the pesky lawyer fees too.

Learn how to speak Italian at home, not on a cement slab

Perugia: we know how to do Italian right

Perugia: If you've got the time, have we got a language school for you

Perugia: come see what all the excitement is all about

Perugia: the Disneyland of Italian justice: RIDE the MIGNINI TWISTER!!!

They should make the next "Hostel" franchise movie in Perugia and tie it in with the Monster of Florence mystery

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[Grinder]

It's a strange argument they make Chris. It seems almost if they think Rudy is innocent. Otherwise, they also think the black guy did it. The evidence shows his guilt in this case.

Yes one of the oddest twists is the PGP pointing their fingers at anyone that believes the kids should have been found innocent, designating them as racist because they say Rudy did it.

There obviously is no doubt that Rudy did it and there is no doubt he is black. Now of course Amanda accused the poor innocent Patrick and he is black. This seems to be at the core of why they can't admit that the police already had Patrick in their sights.

Not one of the PMFers or PQ's gang has outed themselves as being anything but white. Anybody else remember the Christmas they decided to post their pictures?

 

[acbytesla]

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New Advertising from "Rosetta Stone" one of the leading Language Learning Software Programs around: It's like spending four years learning Italian in an Italian Prison rolled into one easy to use software program. Learn Italian without all the hassle and minus all the pesky lawyer fees too.

Learn how to speak Italian at home, not on a cement slab

Perugia: we know how to do Italian right

Perugia: If you've got the time, have we got a language school for you

Perugia: come see what all the excitement is all about

Perugia: the Disneyland of Italian justice: RIDE the MIGNINI TWISTER!!!

They should make the next "Hostel" franchise movie in Perugia and tie it in with the Monster of Florence mystery

d

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Very funny.... Never mind Perugia's University for Foreigners. Just a few miles away in a very secure location is the graybar immersion language school Capanne. They even include meals.

 

[Desert Fox]

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There is no doubt in my mind that your position definitely increases the probability they are innocent, and along with the TOD evidence...

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I want to be clear here
Amanda could be a horrid person who had unfulfilled lesbian fantasies of Meredeth. She could be the person who you might expect to hurt Meredeth.
The same could be true about Rafaele.

Until and unless there is physical evidence tying them to the crime, calling them guilty is a miscarriage of justice.

 

[Dan O.]

Makes, sense. Thanks Dan O. Where are these other statements?

That's a good question. There are references to both "minutes" and "summaries" of these "interviews". The minutes aree not the same as the summaries since Rita talks about the contents of the minutes prior to the 1:45 but this information did not get into the summary which we have seen. The minutes are probably kept with the recordings.

 

[acbytesla]

I want to be clear here
Amanda could be a horrid person who had unfulfilled lesbian fantasies of Meredeth. She could be the person who you might expect to hurt Meredeth.
The same could be true about Rafaele.

Until and unless there is physical evidence tying them to the crime, calling them guilty is a miscarriage of justice.

You're right Desert Fox. Although, I can't see why just because someone might have "unfulfilled sexual fantasies" that would make them the type of person you might expect to hurt Meredith or any other person.

If that was true, my fantasies alone about Giselle Bunchen would get me into trouble..

It's like you are unconsciously conceding the premise that being preoccupied with sex makes one more predisposed to commit violence. In fact, nothing could be farther from the truth. It's not that people with sexual urges are more likely to commit violence, it's that violent people sometimes have sexual urges. Like us all.

 

[AmyStrange]

More speculative psychological crap

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I want to be clear here
Amanda could be a horrid person who had unfulfilled lesbian fantasies of Meredeth. She could be the person who you might expect to hurt Meredeth.
The same could be true about Rafaele.

Until and unless there is physical evidence tying them to the crime, calling them guilty is a miscarriage of justice.

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I got you the first time. I think Amanda is creepy looking.

For me, in descending order of importance, what makes the probability that they're not guilty so probable is as follows:

TOD evidence (including the duodenum, Meredith's last try to her Mom, and Rudy's Skype) all together makes it more probable that TOD was around 9:30 rather than later.

No physical evidence except 2 very unreliable bits of DNA that can't be retested for various reasons. That should be enough to create reasonable doubt right there.

A confession straight out of an Arabian Knight story and the stuff that happened before and after it was signed.

Raffaele's computer records showing someone was using it continuously.

Raffaele's refusal to abandon Amanda

Speculative Psychological crap like the fact that I think Amanda is creepy, but I look creepy and I know I'm an alright guy who wouldn't commit murder, so...

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[acbytesla]

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I got you the first time. I think Amanda is creepy looking.

For me, in descending order of importance, what makes the probability that they're not guilty so probable is as follows:

TOD evidence (including the duodenum, Meredith's last try to her Mom, and Rudy's Skype) all together makes it more probable that TOD was around 9:30 rather than later.

No physical evidence except 2 very unreliable bits of DNA that can't be retested for various reasons. That should be enough to create reasonable doubt right there.

A confession straight out of an Arabian Knight story and the stuff that happened before and after it was signed.

Raffaele's computer records showing someone was using it continuously.

Raffaele's refusal to abandon Amanda

Speculative Psychological crap like the fact that I think Amanda is creepy, but I look creepy and I know I'm an alright guy who wouldn't commit murder, so...

d

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Everyone has their own tastes. Still I find it hard to believe that people actually think that Amanda looks creepy. Sure, if you pick out a few photos, you might find a few that might have that effect. But you'd have to be damn selective in your choice. Which I think the tabloids definitely were.

Frankly, I think Amanda is beautiful. She reminds me of my first girlfriend. pale skin, pretty blue eyes, nice smile. If I was twenty years younger, I'd damn sure would have made a play.

But that's irrelevant in terms of guilt or innocence. That's judging a book by its cover...or Italian justice.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

getting over it

I want to be clear here
Amanda could be a horrid person who had unfulfilled lesbian fantasies of Meredeth. She could be the person who you might expect to hurt Meredeth.
The same could be true about Rafaele.

(highlighting mine)
All but the lesbian fantasies. More seriously, I would be more concerned if it transpired that Amanda pulled the wings off house flies and Raffaele burned up ants using a magnifying glass than I am worried about anyone's being sexually active. It's true that I was shocked (shocked I tell you) to find out in my study of the Duke lacrosse case that college age men actually masturbated in their bathrooms, but then I got over it.

 

[Desert Fox]

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I got you the first time. I think Amanda is creepy looking.
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Christopher Lee both looks creepy and sounds creepy but my understanding is that he is a really nice guy. Chuck Norris does not look creepy yet is suppose to be a pretty nasty person.

Look, just teasing a little bit . . . . .

It is nice that Amanda and Raffaele do seem to be genuinely nice people.

Now, the only time I try to bring up the type of people is that the crime seems to fit the profile of a lone rapist that caught Meredeth alone.

 

[Bill Williams]

Trial by osmosis

Usually that title would be considered undue hyperbole. But this Los Angeles Review of Books of "Trial By Osmosis: Amanda Knox, Raffaele Sollecito and the Nightmare of Italian Justice by Andrew Gumbel" calls it exactly that.

Andrew Gumbel, a regular contributor, spent five years as a foreign correspondent in Italy and co-wrote Raffaele Sollecito's account of the trials, Honor Bound: My Journey to Hell and Back With Amanda Knox (Simon & Schuster, 2012).

https://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/trial-osmosis-amanda-knox-raffaele-sollecito-nightmare-italian-justice

One of the dangers of the Italian system’s chronic indecisiveness is that it diminishes the responsibility of any one judge issuing a guilty verdict. The head judge in the Florence appeal, Alessandro Nencini, gave a newspaper interview the day after his decision acknowledging how difficult it had been to hand out long sentences and saying he realized that debate over the case would continue. He was immediately reprimanded for speaking out before issuing his formal explanation of the verdict, due within 90 days. Lawyers for the defendants wondered if his words didn’t indicate a distancing, however slight, from his own decision. It’s not impossible: judges have been known to issue a guilty verdict to please their colleagues on the prosecutor’s bench and then fill their sentencing reports with enough inconsistencies and leaps in logic to provide the next court with ammunition to overturn their decision.

Tellingly, Mignini did not direct the court to look at the evidence per se, but to look at the logic of his reconstruction of the murder. And the high court endorsed his view when it sent the case back to trial last March. It was a mistake, the high court said, to focus on the shortcomings of the evidence piece by piece; the new trial judge needed to absorb the facts of the case “by osmosis” to appreciate the story in its totality.

 

[Desert Fox]

(highlighting mine)
All but the lesbian fantasies. More seriously, I would be more concerned if it transpired that Amanda pulled the wings off house flies and Raffaele burned up ants using a magnifying glass than I am worried about anyone's being sexually active. It's true that I was shocked (shocked I tell you) to find out in my study of the Duke lacrosse case that college age men actually masturbated in their bathrooms, but then I got over it.

I don't care about her being or not being a lesbian, sorry if I gave that impression
My argument was even if she was the type that might consider raping or helping to rape Meredeth, unless the evidence shows she did it, she should not be convicted.

 

[AmyStrange]

Disneyland Justice, Italian Style

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Everyone has their own tastes. Still I find it hard to believe that people actually think that Amanda looks creepy. Sure, if you pick out a few photos, you might find a few that might have that effect. But you'd have to be damn selective in your choice. Which I think the tabloids definitely were.

Frankly, I think Amanda is beautiful. She reminds me of my first girlfriend. pale skin, pretty blue eyes, nice smile. If I was twenty years younger, I'd damn sure would have made a play.

But that's irrelevant in terms of guilt or innocence. That's judging a book by its cover...or Italian justice.

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That actually is Disneyland justice, where the bad guy or gal looks creepy or exactly like a bad guy should look.

Ted Bundy proved that image wrong.

Some serial killers do have that vacant soul less look, but everybody looks that way in booking pictures, well, almost everybody anyway.

Amanda's creepiness, for me, is her eyes and most of the time it's because of the shadows her brows make depending upon where the light is coming from.

Most pictures of her with the lighting from above makes her look more creepy.

And most of the pictures with the light shining directly at her or directly below her line of site, makes her less creepy looking and quite stunningly beautiful. especially the blue eyes.

In short, pictures where her eyes are prominently shadowed make her look like an ice princess, and the blue eyes don't help there.

Moving pictures are worse for her because depending on how she moves her head, especially when she looks down, the light moves around and so do the shadows around her eyes.

But all that is my opinion (speculative psychological crap) and doesn't prove she's guilty.

What makes me sad is she can't really change how she looks or how the shadows change how she looks. And, that might even be part of why she's being prosecuted now and no amount of arguement from any of us IMPers can change some of the GUMPers minds with logic, because they've already abandoned that (logic) when they decided not to look at anything beyond her looks,

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[AmyStrange]

Creepiest looking actor of all time...

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Christopher Lee both looks creepy and sounds creepy but my understanding is that he is a really nice guy. Chuck Norris does not look creepy yet is suppose to be a pretty nasty person.

Look, just teasing a little bit . . . . .

It is nice that Amanda and Raffaele do seem to be genuinely nice people.

Now, the only time I try to bring up the type of people is that the crime seems to fit the profile of a lone rapist that caught Meredeth alone.

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and who of course can forget the creepiest looking actor of all time, Peter Lorre. According to GUMPer logic, he must have killed hundreds of people,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Lorre

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[Darth Rotor]

Insofar as looks go, I was playing Diablo III this past weekend.

Amanda Knox looks like Leah. (Amanda's latest news photo with the dark, short cropped hair and the sad/hurt expression on her face).

So, on that basis, she looks like the Lord of Terror, in disguise, and must be guilty. Granted, one cannot judge a book by its cover, nor by similarity to a popular video game.

On the other hand ...

This post was brought to you by a sense of humor, and a sense of the absurd. Hate to break up a set.

 

[acbytesla]

Insofar as looks go, I was playing Diablo III this past weekend.

Amanda Knox looks like Leah. (Amanda's latest news photo with the dark, short cropped hair and the sad/hurt expression on her face).

So, on that basis, she looks like the Lord of Terror, in disguise, and must be guilty. Granted, one cannot judge a book by its cover, nor by similarity to a popular video game.

On the other hand ...

This post was brought to you by a sense of humor, and a sense of the absurd. Hate to break up a set.

Is that what you think is a sense of humor. But hey, some people actually laugh at Woody Allen and Andrew Dice Clay too.

 

[Bob001]

Extradition question: Assume for the sake of argument that the Italian Supreme Court upholds the guilty verdict, and Italy chooses not to request extradition (maybe to avoid a confrontation with the U.S., maybe to avoid a judgment by a U.S. court that Amanda was abused, whatever). Do they have a limited amount of time to make such a request, or could this hang over her head forever? Suppose five years down the road, ten years, whenever, she travels outside the U.S. Could Italy whip up an extradition request and send it to Canada, the UK, or wherever they could find her? Would there ever be a time when Amanda would be safe (I'm assuming that Raffaele is pretty much screwed no matter what). Would any statute of limitations apply?

 

[Bob001]

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Amanda's creepiness, for me, is her eyes and most of the time it's because of the shadows her brows make depending upon where the light is coming from.
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I think if cameras followed any of us continuously for hours and days any editor could pull out frames that would make us look like Rasputin. Sometimes Amanda doesn't look good in pictures because they are being selected by editors who don't want her to look good. But in sustained appearances (her interview with Diane Sawyer, for example) there's nothing sinister-looking about her at all. In her original trial testimony (link posted here a few pages back), she looks and sounds like an eager-to-please 14-year-old. I would judge Mignini by his looks, but not Amanda.

 

[Poppy1016]

The Hellmann court wrote that A & K were innocent. Definitively innocent. They were innocent because they hadn't committed the crimes of which they'd been accused. The available evidence didn't just fail to convict them, it exonerated them.

How, then, could there not be reasonable doubt from the Nencini court? There was no new, compelling evidence. How could the Nencini court -- looking at the same exact body of evidence -- not be forced to conclude that their was at the very least reasonable doubt, by definition?

What am I missing about the Italian system here?

Excellent question. I would also like to know about this. The supreme court ask for two items to be revisited. Both resulted favorably for the defense. Yet they were still convicted.