Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

[Klimax]

Sorry, I'll make sure I say ultra-nationalism in the future, because that's what it is. That is what my articles confirm that it is. Ultra-nationalism, the kind that rose in Germany during the 30s that nearly killed your people.

First, no matter what you are going for in labels, you may wish to have bloody evidence and next time ensure that you actually don't post wrong info. (like conflating nationalists with ultranationalists, getting everything completely wrong in process)

Your article confirms nothing of that sort.

And so far you assertion still lacks any basis. (That ultra-nationalists are of any importance but just loud) And we now how to recognize things and so far Russians rank far higher then Ukraine U-N as a threat... (and I suspect they aren't and won't be any threat anyway as there is no evidence about rise of it)

Ultra-nationalism is a bad thing, and that's what's happening in the Ukraine. Now a dull for of nationalism that brings pride and cooperation, but the sharp kind that come with knives, separatism, and internal rivalries. Oh, western Ukrainians were clearly too stupid to read Mein Kampf 70 years ago and see that they were apart of Hitler's little plot. I just want to add that sometimes acting on ultra-nationalism alone yields poor results.

I'll be surprised if Ukraine doesn't descend into civil war.

So far evidence for your claim that anything like that is happening is completely missing. Repeating it won't turn it into truth. Just FIY.

 

[McHrozni]

Your first paragraph states that Ukrainian nationalists often down play their own savage role in supporting the Nazis. Duties which included but are not limited to, the liquidation of poles and Jews in western Ukraine. The Ukrainians themselves would've become little more than slaves in Hitler's Generalplan Ost. I don't sympathize with exterminationists.

I think it's plainly evident they're interested in "opposing the Soviets" part and not "supporting the Nazis" part of this part of their history. What kind of monster would choose the lesser of two evils, anyway.

You might also want to check where Bandera was between January 1942 and September of 1944. It might shed some light as to why they don't blame him for everything his group did in the meantime. Also, Generalplan Ost was a state secret, revealed only after the war. Don't pretend it was common knowledge in Ukraine.

As for the second paragraph just more attempts for them to distance themselves from their true stance of Nazism.

What is their true stance of Nazism and how do you know it?

ETA: I just want to add that Poles, Russians, and Jews all unanimously denounce the work of Stepan Bandera and considers him a genocidal maniac.

Even in Hollywood people can be both hero to some and villain to others. Please don't pretend that real life is more simplistic than that.

McHrozni

 

[Garrison]

And it seems we have a major escalation in the violence:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26249330

 

[Childlike Empress]

 

[Klimax]

Spam YT video... no commentary, nothing saying what it shows, why one should view it. Nothing, just Spam by Youtube... (And title is non-English, so one can't even tell by it)

Anyway,
Ukraine police fight protesters after nation's bloodiest day

 

[Childlike Empress]

Spam YT video... no commentary, nothing saying what it shows, why one should view it. Nothing, just Spam by Youtube... (And title is non-English, so one can't even tell by it)

POOR BABY! I'm pleased that you at least managed to open the container and look at the title. Hope that the act didn't fuel any irrational fears, though.

 

[McHrozni]

Spam YT video... no commentary, nothing saying what it shows, why one should view it. Nothing, just Spam by Youtube... (And title is non-English, so one can't even tell by it)

Anyway,
Ukraine police fight protesters after nation's bloodiest day

I think it says Illegal actions by 'peaceful' protesters, or something to that effect. Judging from that it's poisoning the well and guilt by association by our lover of freedom and democracy. Sort of.

McHrozni

 

[Caper]

Did anyone post this yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw

 

[McHrozni]

Did anyone post this yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw

Yes, several times now

McHrozni

 

[Klimax]

POOR BABY! I'm pleased that you at least managed to open the container and look at the title. Hope that the act didn't fuel any irrational fears, though.

You know, not everybody has time to view some random YouTube video nor might have option to have sound, especially when one declines to say why it is of any interest or relevancy. I think that at some point it might even break a rule or two...

And apparently it is typical fare, so nothing of use got missed. (No wonder there was no indication of content...)

As expected.

 

[Childlike Empress]

You know, not everybody has time to view some random YouTube video nor might have option to have sound, especially when one declines to say why it is of any interest or relevancy. I think that at some point it might even break a rule or two...

And apparently it is typical fare, so nothing of use got missed. (No wonder there was no indication of content...)

As expected.

Rule of thumb: No time to watch, no time to whine. But of course you have to break that.

 

[McHrozni]

A group of about 20 kids throw rocks, a group of civilians with some military equipment firebomb an empty building, a guy who never handled a gun before fires in the air and a fake rifle is displayed. Skirmishes between police and men wearing military uniforms (?). Several protesters and one policemen are apparently beaten.

Come back when protestors start firebombing policemen. Until then you're whining and shilling for Putin, nothing more

McHrozni

 

[Klimax]

Rule of thumb: No time to watch, no time to whine. But of course you have to break that.

Just telling you how you stand in this thread... Also you could too post some words about video, but chose not. You could break that pattern and didn't...

 

[gabeygoat]

youtube posts with no comments really are a bit annoying. I'm often on this board at work. So I may have time, but the sound is off, and vids may be work-inappropriate.

 

[Checkmite]

According to some reports, the legislature of the Lvov oblasty in western Ukraine have ousted the appointed governor and declared autonomy from President Yanukovych's government.

 

[Childlike Empress]

According to some reports, the legislature of the Lvov oblasty in western Ukraine have ousted the appointed governor and declared autonomy from President Yanukovych's government.

That's the hometurf of neo-fascist Svoboda party. Here's their election result 2012 (from wikipedia). The most brown is Lviv (Lemberg).

 

[Madalch]

My wife seldom talks to me about politics, but she has been following this closely since it started, and (being from Kyiv, and part of a politically-active family) she knows a hell of a lot more about it than any ivory-tower internet activists. She insists that this is not about East vs. West, Russia vs. Europe, or a desire for fascism. This is simply rage by the people against a kleptocratic government, led by a man who would rather shoot protestors than step aside.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Come back when protestors start firebombing policemen

No problem. Same collection where the other video came from.


And now?

 

[Klimax]

That's the hometurf of neo-fascist Svoboda party. Here's their election result 2012 (from wikipedia). The most brown is Lviv (Lemberg).

[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Svoboda-2012.png[/qimg]

I don't think your description is anymore true. That is, they don't appear to be neo-fascist anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/Digital-Library/Publications/Detail/?lng=en&id=137051
http://en.svoboda.org.ua/about/program/

As for Lviv, not a surprise, they started there and it is very recent gain.

 

[McHrozni]

No problem. Same collection where the other video came from.


And now?

It shows policemen around a fire that has been burning for at least a few seconds prior to video being shot. No evidence it was a firebomb. No indication of where the fire came from. Given the number of civilians that go against the policemen (10 against 300 or so), and given the source, it's certainly a scene staged for propaganda purposes, nothing more. Does it make you happy to shill for Putin?

That, or Ukrainian police perfers to turtle up when they have a 30 to 1 advantage, even after the opposing side firebombs them. If it's the latter you'll have to explain why, prefferably with a manual.

McHrozni