Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[AmyStrange]

Rudy had a phone until Oct 20

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It's clear there was a phone in there at some times but to be sure of the details will take more than a google-fish translation.

QUESTION - Have you checked that Rudy Guede had availability a cell phone?
ANSWER - In those days the investigation ...
QUESTION - Let's say from 1 October onwards.
ANSWER - Do not had the phone at that time, at least from what we could ascertain think his last phone was available at the end of October, which we had not had subsequently had ...
QUESTION - Yes, but let's say I speak from 1st October onwards.
REPLY - But until October 20 he had a cell phone, then I think ...APPLICATION - There has been, let's say until October 20, you analyzed the traffic of this phone?
ANSWER - Yes, we have done something.
QUESTION - Have you established if there was say telephone traffic between or among Rudy Rudy and Amanda and Raffaele?
ANSWER - We did a check and said no contacts There were, between Rudy and the other parties.

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Reads to me like Rudy had a phone until Oct 20, and up until then they couldn't prove contact between the three parties, at least not by phone...

d

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[Desert Fox]

The first day they put RS into jail and that photo hits all the Italian papers meanwhile Knox remains free and fighting extradition is the day when Italians must finally look into the mirror and ask themselves "what the hell have we allowed to happen here?"

Actually may very well be worse than that with Rudy likely have raped or even raping and murdering another girl.

 

[Desert Fox]

When you read the description of her job at Le Chic in her book, you tend to despise Patrick. PL was really taking advantage of her. She was required to pass out these leaflets and not get paid for it. Patrick hired Amanda to get men into his bar. It was understood that she would be approached and to tell guys that she would be working. She was the lure to his bar.

Is this in her book?

 

[acbytesla]

Is this in her book?

Yes. It was like a $6 hour job while she was working at Le Chic,...but it was understood that she needed to spend hours in the city center Piazza passing out leaflets...this latter part was just to work.

Amanda was afraid she was going to get fired...but she also didn't like the job and had feelers to get a different job.

 

[Desert Fox]

Yes. It was like a $6 hour job while she was working at Le Chic,...but it was understood that she needed to spend hours in the city center Piazza passing out leaflets...this latter part was just to work.

Amanda was afraid she was going to get fired...but she also didn't like the job and had feelers to get a different job.

What pages?

Edit: Also, is $6 legal pay in Italy?

 

[Strozzi]

When you read the description of her job at Le Chic in her book, you tend to despise Patrick. PL was really taking advantage of her. She was required to pass out these leaflets and not get paid for it. Patrick hired Amanda to get men into his bar. It was understood that she would be approached and to tell guys that she would be working. She was the lure to his bar.

That's interesting. The legend is Patrick was about to fire Amanda and replace her with Meredith. That suggests Patrick thought Meredith would be a better attraction to attract men to his bar.

 

[acbytesla]

And in the BBC3 video he tells the disgusting lie that Amanda was talking to men so much that Patrick had to tell her to get back to work.

BTW, from the video, it would appear the clientele at Le Chic was almost exclusively male. It's pretty obvious why Amanda was hired.

It wouldn't surprise me that he did. Never the less, what he wanted most from Amanda was get the butts in the seats. She was hired above all because she was pretty and would attract men.

When I first had read of Patrick Lumumba's complaints about Amanda being too forwrard with the guys, I knew he was lying. I knew this because before my career selling IT and data communications equipment, I worked as a bus boy, waiter, bar back and bartender. I tended bar at lots of places in the city and a pretty outgoing girl is exactly what the bars look for. There is a derogatory sexist term for cocktail waitresses . Floor whores. Have you ever heard of cocktail waiter? They don't exist. Men and women wait tables at restaurants serving food and drink. But where the main focus is to sell liquor, they are ALL women..unless we are talking about Neighbors in Seattle. If you get my drift.

 

[acbytesla]

What pages?

Edit: Also, is $6 legal pay in Italy?

I don't know..but in many states in the US, restaurants and bars are allowed to pay below the minimum wage to people in the hospitality industry that make tips. I waited tables for less than minimum wage but when you calculated the tips into it, I was fairly well paid for my age at the time.

Maybe then can do the same in Italy. And I think Amanda was working for wages "under the table" any way.

 

[acbytesla]

That's interesting. The legend is Patrick was about to fire Amanda and replace her with Meredith. That suggests Patrick thought Meredith would be a better attraction to attract men to his bar.

Exactly. I don't buy it.... I don't think for a second, Patrick was thinking of replacing Amanda with Meredith. But then I don't know either of them.

They are both pretty, although I think Amanda is prettier. But a good cocktail waitress is as much about personality as looks....well to a degree. But he was using his employees to drum up business "outside" the bar as much as what they could do inside it.

Amanda said in her book that she didn't like distributing the leaflets. I'm not sure if I ever heard Patrick say that he was actually going to replace Amanda with Meredith. I think that is guilter invented.

But if Patrick did, I seriously doubt that he discussed it with Meredith. Amanda doesn't mention that Meredith was looking for a job while she was there.

 

[acbytesla]

What pages?

Edit: Also, is $6 legal pay in Italy?

OK..you made me look it up... Page 41. The pay was 5 Euro an hour...which was $7.25 US/

 

[Mary_H]

Exactly. I don't buy it.... I don't think for a second, Patrick was thinking of replacing Amanda with Meredith. But then I don't know either of them.

They are both pretty, although I think Amanda is prettier. But a good cocktail waitress is as much about personality as looks....well to a degree. But he was using his employees to drum up business "outside" the bar as much as what they could do inside it.

Amanda said in her book that she didn't like distributing the leaflets. I'm not sure if I ever heard Patrick say that he was actually going to replace Amanda with Meredith. I think that is guilter invented.

But if Patrick did, I seriously doubt that he discussed it with Meredith. Amanda doesn't mention that Meredith was looking for a job while she was there.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, apart from the Mail article, there is no evidence that Patrick ever met Meredith, nor that Meredith was looking for a job. There also is no evidence Patrick had anything but good feelings about Amanda.

 

[acbytesla]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, apart from the Mail article, there is no evidence that Patrick ever met Meredith, nor that Meredith was looking for a job. There also is no evidence Patrick had anything but good feelings about Amanda.

No Meredith met Patrick when she visited Amanda on the job. She even showed Patrick how to make a drink..I think it was a Mojito. But it might have been a different drink.

Amanda was afraid of losing the job. But there is no evidence that Patrick had any bad feelings toward Amanda or that he was thinking about hiring Meredith or that Meredith even thought about going to work there. Meredith certainly never told anyone she thought about working there to anyone.

 

[Mary_H]

No Meredith met Patrick when she visited Amanda on the job. She even showed Patrick how to make a drink..I think it was a Mojito. But it might have been a different drink.

Amanda was afraid of losing the job. But there is no evidence that Patrick had any bad feelings toward Amanda or that he was thinking about hiring Meredith or that Meredith even thought about going to work there. Meredith certainly never told anyone she thought about working there to anyone.

Where is the documentation for this?

 

[Kestrel]

The search for a motive has generated lots of speculation about conflicts between Amanda and Meredith. Most of the stories we now hear are merely echoes of that speculation.

 

[acbytesla]

Where is the documentation for this?

I'm not sure where I read that Meredith made PL a drink. But on page 44 in Waiting to be Heard. Amanda says that Meredith came to visit her a few times so Amanda wouldn't be bored and alone. She says that Meredith brought her friends once.

 

[Mary_H]

I'm not sure where I read that Meredith made PL a drink. But on page 44 in Waiting to be Heard. Amanda says that Meredith came to visit her a few times so Amanda wouldn't be bored and alone. She says that Meredith brought her friends once.

Thank you, sir.

 

[anglolawyer]

Hey I think you tried to take a yacht from me saying that the cops didn't know this before the interrogation.

Actually I think I couldn't believe that in all the interviews Patrick's name never came up as in her employer.

What did they talk to her about for all those hours?

Grinder we are both getting senile. The yacht is due to me because I said, as a prediction resulting from my deeper understanding of the case that they would not have talked to her about Lumumba prior to the 5th-6th. You have reverted to incredulity on this point despite being shown the evidence that I was right. I will check again but I think Mignini asked Amanda at trial why she had never mentioned Patrick at any point before that night.

What they talked about for all those hours (he speculated - Katy ) was a whole bunch of things other than what she did the night of the 1st. Thus: their lives together in the apartment, their friends and visitors, the morning of the discovery of the body etc

We can infer this from two things:

1. Their inability to recall the details of their evening when first asked about them 4 days later
2. The fact the cops did not want to alert them to their status as suspects.

Just speculation but it will turn out to be true. Another thing is I don't recall either of them writing in their books about having to go over their own activities before the 5th-6th.

 

[anglolawyer]

Well WTH does this all mean? I probably need new stronger reading glasses and a stem cell brain implant but are the dates of these tappings known?

Sure RG had a phone at one point. Is there any info about that? Was Lumumbas bar bugged before or after his arrest? I'm assuming before since it was kept closed for months after his release from jail.

Certainly the cops asked everyone involved the w,w,w,w questions the first day. So Knox certainly was asked about her work. But I think the police were concentrating on Lumumba more than Knox for some reason. But when Lumumba approached AK outside her school the 5th (was it Monday) morning then they decided that to get to him they needed to go through her. This is what they knew to be true. But why the black man?

Funny Strozzi, but Lumumba was a regular at the cathedral steps IIRC. Passing out flyers was the excuse supposedly. Flyers and weed seems more likely. Did they ever investigate how Guede came to know Kokomaniac? Koko told a story about Guede wanting to borrow his car...so he knew Guede. Too bad about that whole secret trial of Guede...that fast track abomination. The trial that allows the prosecution to involve others...no in fact to prove that others were involved and yet it is secret and limited....why even AK and RS who were certainly later accused by Guede were never given the chance to testify or cross examine their accuser.

The first day they put RS into jail and that photo hits all the Italian papers meanwhile Knox remains free and fighting extradition is the day when Italians must finally look into the mirror and ask themselves "what the hell have we allowed to happen here?"

Perhaps that might matter to them...I am not hopeful at all about that though. Who knows...by then Italy will have changed governments three or four more times so who knows...anything is possible.

I bet a yacht she was not asked about her work. I bet she was not asked anything at all that suggested curiosity about her movements or activities.

 

[anglolawyer]

If I am reading the google-fish translation of Sisani's testimony (2009-03-20) correctly, only one phone of Patrick's was analyzed. This phone was a Nokia model 6070 with a sim card managed by the cellular operator Vodafone. While Amanda's reply was found in Patrick's phone and was identical to the text of the message in Amanda's phone, there was no record of the outgoing message that Patrick sent to Amanda. This phone had a feature that allowed the user to opt to not save outgoing texts. This is how Patrick's phone was configured so there is no controversy for the text of the message not being found. But the phone would still keep a log that the message was sent and this record did not exist.

An additional tidbit, Patrick turns off his phone at the same time as Amanda and Raffaele:

​

A question was asked earlier as to whether other phones were tapped. The answer is yes including the phones of Romanelli, Mezzetti, Guede and Lumumba. Amanda and Raffaele's phones were tapped on day 2. Even Patrick's bar was bugged.

Wow. Patrick on day two, huh? Well, whaddaya know.

ETA does that mean it is not so unreasonable to speculate (pending confirmation) that they were seen on the morning of the 5th? It also suggests they quickly figured out to whom she sent her text the night of the 1st and that in turn suggests that the exchange was a matter of interest to them from pretty near the outset. If you decided the burglary is fake and conclude the poo was deposited by a guest, then you are looking for an insider. Since Meredith was a pure, well-behaved girl while Amanda was promiscuous, and Amanda is the one with the fanciful story about taking a shower etc it's her! It's not even that bad a theory so long as you completely ignore all the forensic evidence.

 

[Samson]

Wow. Patrick on day two, huh? Well, whaddaya know.

Caso aperto?