Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Rudy?

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Dan O. said:
If I am reading the google-fish translation of Sisani's testimony (2009-03-20) correctly, only one phone of Patrick's was analyzed. This phone was a Nokia model 6070 with a sim card managed by the cellular operator Vodafone. While Amanda's reply was found in Patrick's phone and was identical to the text of the message in Amanda's phone, there was no record of the outgoing message that Patrick sent to Amanda. This phone had a feature that allowed the user to opt to not save outgoing texts. This is how Patrick's phone was configured so there is no controversy for the text of the message not being found. But the phone would still keep a log that the message was sent and this record did not exist.

An additional tidbit, Patrick turns off his phone at the same time as Amanda and Raffaele:
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A question was asked earlier as to whether other phones were tapped. The answer is yes including the phones of Romanelli, Mezzetti, Guede and Lumumba. Amanda and Raffaele's phones were tapped on day 2. Even Patrick's bar was bugged.
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Why was Rudy's phone tapped by day 2? Does this mean they suspected him even before the forensics came back, and I thought Rudy didn't have a phone?

d

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Can someone please tell me what sorts of questionable oe illicit activities might a bar owner/DJ like Patrick be involved in? And why would someone own an unregistered phone?

Evading sales and income tax? Yes. Evading employment tax on employees? Yes. What else would be common?
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
Hitchcock actually did an excellent movie about a man who is falsely accused of armed robbery. It is called The Wrong Man and it is based on a true story. Henry Fonda plays a character not too unlike Raffaele, soft-spoken and bewildered by the situation in which he finds himself.
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I didn't know that and I'm a huge film buff. I thought I had seen all of Hitchcock's movies. I'll have to see if I can check it out at the library or find it somewhere else.
 
Desert Fox said:
Really sucks for him is that there is at least a decent (if not very good) chance that she can fight extradition. When the Italian supreme court comes down, he is locked up however.
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I know. I admire how he's handling all of this. I hope to God, that the Italian Supreme Court surprises the hell out of us somehow. That would be horrible for him...and I can't imagine how guilty Amanda would feel being free while Raffaele was locked up. Yes it would be much much harder on him, I can't imagine being her somehow wrongly thinking she was responsible somehow, some way.
 
acbytesla said:
I know. I admire how he's handling all of this. I hope to God, that the Italian Supreme Court surprises the hell out of us somehow. That would be horrible for him...and I can't imagine how guilty Amanda would feel being free while Raffaele was locked up. Yes it would be much much harder on him, I can't imagine being her somehow wrongly thinking she was responsible somehow, some way.
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Wondering is it common practice to leave somebody found guilty still free?
Wondering why they did not immediately arrest him?
 
Interesting Charlie, I just read the plot line of the Hitchock movie "The Wrong Man". Interesting. That is based on mis-identifications. The Knox and Sollecito story is just downright bizarre. No evidence...and then bizarre evidence pops up and up and up. Imagine being in jail and hearing that your shoe prints match the shoe prints from the murder scene. Imagine being told that the cooking knife has the victim's DNA on it. Imagine hearing that the computer that should prove you were at home has the hard drives fry? Then hearing that they caught some other guy...you should get out...right?? No, they are saying that you did it with this other guy that you had only seen in passing.

Then walking into court and this homeless guy says he sees you where you know you weren't. That the police say you were faking everything. That you called the police after other police arrived...All the time knowing that each and everything is a lie and is simply NOT possible.

It is all so bizarre....Even Hollywood wouldn't believe it.
 
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Strozzi said:
Can someone please tell me what sorts of questionable oe illicit activities might a bar owner/DJ like Patrick be involved in? And why would someone own an unregistered phone?

Evading sales and income tax? Yes. Evading employment tax on employees? Yes. What else would be common?
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Drug dealer.
 
RandyN said:
Drug dealer.
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Of course I thought that, but I also thought a bar owner has a lot to lose if he is caught dealing drugs - especially out of his business establishment. It would seem that in Perugia the drug dealers work out of "low overhead business establishments" such as the cathedral steps. ;)

Buying stolen liquor might be a better product line for a bar owner.

Or better yet, cloning credit cards from foreign tourists. He can easily capture the PIN numbers on ATM cards with a video camera. This was done to my daughter when she was studying in Florence. A clone ATM card was made, her PIN was captured presumably by video camera, and the cloned ATM card was used to withdraw cash from two ATM machines in Paris when she was in Florence.

Unlike European-issued ATM and credit cards, US-issued cards do not have an authentication chip in them. The reason is that the conversion to new chip-verifying terminals is expensive and the percentage of cloned ATM and credit cards used in the US is lower than in Europe. It is all about avoiding the investment cost to convert to the newer chip-reading credit card processing devices.
 
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Strozzi said:
Of course I thought that, but I also thought a bar owner has a lot to lose if he is caught dealing drugs - especially out of his business establishment. It would seem that in Perugia the drug dealers work out of "low overhead business establishments" such as the cathedral steps. ;)

Buying stolen liquor might be a better product line for a bar owner.

Or better yet, cloning credit cards from foreign tourists. He can easily capture the PIN numbers on ATM cards with a video camera. This was done to my daughter when she was studying in Florence. A clone ATM card was made, her PIN was captured presumably by video camera, and the cloned ATM card was used to withdraw cash from two ATM machines in Paris when she was in Florence.
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Smuggled liquor, not just stolen liquor. Not sure how much liquor is taxed in Italy. But US, bars have been known to purchase liquor from out of State or from an Indian reservation where they the taxes are much lower or non-existent. (In the State of Washington the liquor taxes are very high) A bar owner in this state could save thousands of dollars doing that.
 
acbytesla said:
That can't be right. Someone made a boo boo.
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Someone juste needs reading glasses. There is a period between the list of names of others whose phones were tapped and the list of names whose phones were tapped on day 2. The timing was not specified for when the others were tapped. Nor was the timing specified for when Patrick's bar was bugged.
(did anyone even notice that bit which I've highlighted here?)
 
Strozzi said:
Of course I thought that, but I also thought a bar owner has a lot to lose if he is caught dealing drugs - especially out of his business establishment. It would seem that in Perugia the drug dealers work out of "low overhead business establishments" such as the cathedral steps. ;)

Buying stolen liquor might be a better product line for a bar owner.

Or better yet, cloning credit cards from foreign tourists. He can easily capture the PIN numbers on ATM cards with a video camera. This was done to my daughter when she was studying in Florence. A clone ATM card was made, her PIN was captured presumably by video camera, and the cloned ATM card was used to withdraw cash from two ATM machines in Paris when she was in Florence.

Unlike European-issued ATM and credit cards, US-issued cards do not have an authentication chip in them. The reason is that the conversion to new chip-verifying terminals is expensive and the percentage of cloned ATM and credit cards used in the US is lower than in Europe. It is all about avoiding the investment cost to convert to the newer chip-reading credit card processing devices.
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Having had my card hacked (Not sure if cloned but somebody bought $100 worth of gas in a Texas - I live in southeastern Virginia) makes me want every safeguard than can be done.
 
I was under the impression, Rudy didn't have a phone

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Dan O. said:
Someone juste needs reading glasses. There is a period between the list of names of others whose phones were tapped and the list of names whose phones were tapped on day 2. The timing was not specified for when the others were tapped. Nor was the timing specified for when Patrick's bar was bugged.
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That is why asked. I wanted to be sure.

I thought Rudy didn't have a phone?

d

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Dan O. said:
Someone juste needs reading glasses. There is a period between the list of names of others whose phones were tapped and the list of names whose phones were tapped on day 2. The timing was not specified for when the others were tapped. Nor was the timing specified for when Patrick's bar was bugged.
(did anyone even notice that bit which I've highlighted here?)
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I can relate to reading glasses, I tend to read a lot of web pages at 125 percent or higher magnification. Clearly though Rudy never had a phone tapped...right??
 
Dan O. said:
Someone juste needs reading glasses. There is a period between the list of names of others whose phones were tapped and the list of names whose phones were tapped on day 2. The timing was not specified for when the others were tapped. Nor was the timing specified for when Patrick's bar was bugged.
(did anyone even notice that bit which I've highlighted here?)
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Well WTH does this all mean? I probably need new stronger reading glasses and a stem cell brain implant but are the dates of these tappings known?

Sure RG had a phone at one point. Is there any info about that? Was Lumumbas bar bugged before or after his arrest? I'm assuming before since it was kept closed for months after his release from jail.

Certainly the cops asked everyone involved the w,w,w,w questions the first day. So Knox certainly was asked about her work. But I think the police were concentrating on Lumumba more than Knox for some reason. But when Lumumba approached AK outside her school the 5th (was it Monday) morning then they decided that to get to him they needed to go through her. This is what they knew to be true. But why the black man?

Funny Strozzi, but Lumumba was a regular at the cathedral steps IIRC. Passing out flyers was the excuse supposedly. Flyers and weed seems more likely. Did they ever investigate how Guede came to know Kokomaniac? Koko told a story about Guede wanting to borrow his car...so he knew Guede. Too bad about that whole secret trial of Guede...that fast track abomination. The trial that allows the prosecution to involve others...no in fact to prove that others were involved and yet it is secret and limited....why even AK and RS who were certainly later accused by Guede were never given the chance to testify or cross examine their accuser.

The first day they put RS into jail and that photo hits all the Italian papers meanwhile Knox remains free and fighting extradition is the day when Italians must finally look into the mirror and ask themselves "what the hell have we allowed to happen here?"

Perhaps that might matter to them...I am not hopeful at all about that though. Who knows...by then Italy will have changed governments three or four more times so who knows...anything is possible.
 
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Strozzi said:
Can someone please tell me what sorts of questionable oe illicit activities might a bar owner/DJ like Patrick be involved in? And why would someone own an unregistered phone?

Evading sales and income tax? Yes. Evading employment tax on employees? Yes. What else would be common?
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Money laundering

d
 
AmyStrange said:
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That is why asked. I wanted to be sure.

I thought Rudy didn't have a phone?

d

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It's clear there was a phone in there at some times but to be sure of the details will take more than a google-fish translation.

QUESTION - Have you checked that Rudy Guede had availability a cell phone?
ANSWER - In those days the investigation ...
QUESTION - Let's say from 1 October onwards.
ANSWER - Do not had the phone at that time, at least from what we could ascertain think his last phone was available at the end of October, which we had not had subsequently had ...
QUESTION - Yes, but let's say I speak from 1st October onwards.
REPLY - But until October 20 he had a cell phone, then I think ...
APPLICATION - There has been, let's say until October 20, you analyzed the traffic of this phone?
ANSWER - Yes, we have done something.
QUESTION - Have you established if there was say telephone traffic between or among Rudy Rudy and Amanda and Raffaele?
ANSWER - We did a check and said no contacts There were, between Rudy and the other parties.
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RandyN said:
Well WTH does this all mean? I probably need new stronger reading glasses and a stem cell brain implant but are the dates of these tappings known?

Sure RG had a phone at one point. Is there any info about that? Was Lumumbas bar bugged before or after his arrest? I'm assuming before since it was kept closed for months after his release from jail.

Certainly the cops asked everyone involved the w,w,w,w questions the first day. So Knox certainly was asked about her work. But I think the police were concentrating on Lumumba more than Knox for some reason. But when Lumumba approached AK outside her school the 5th (was it Monday) morning then they decided that to get to him they needed to go through her. This is what they knew to be true. But why the black man?

Funny Strozzi, but Lumumba was a regular at the cathedral steps IIRC. Passing out flyers was the excuse supposedly. Flyers and weed seems more likely. Did they ever investigate how Guede came to know Kokomaniac? Koko told a story about Guede wanting to borrow his car...so he knew Guede. Too bad about that whole secret trial of Guede...that fast track abomination. The trial that allows the prosecution to involve others...no in fact to prove that others were involved and yet it is secret and limited....why even AK and RS who were certainly later accused by Guede were never given the chance to testify or cross examine their accuser.

The first day they put RS into jail and that photo hits all the Italian papers meanwhile Knox remains free and fighting extradition is the day when Italians must finally look into the mirror and ask themselves "what the hell have we allowed to happen here?"

Perhaps that might matter to them...I am not hopeful at all about that though. Who knows...by then Italy will have changed governments three or four more times so who knows...anything is possible.
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When you read the description of her job at Le Chic in her book, you tend to despise Patrick. PL was really taking advantage of her. She was required to pass out these leaflets and not get paid for it. Patrick hired Amanda to get men into his bar. It was understood that she would be approached and to tell guys that she would be working. She was the lure to his bar.
 
acbytesla said:
When you read the description of her job at Le Chic in her book, you tend to despise Patrick. PL was really taking advantage of her. She was required to pass out these leaflets and not get paid for it. Patrick hired Amanda to get men into his bar. It was understood that she would be approached and to tell guys that she would be working. She was the lure to his bar.
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And in the BBC3 video he tells the disgusting lie that Amanda was talking to men so much that Patrick had to tell her to get back to work.

BTW, from the video, it would appear the clientele at Le Chic was almost exclusively male. It's pretty obvious why Amanda was hired.
 
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