Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Antony]

A documentary called "Is Amanda Knox Guilty?" will be broadcast on BBC 3 at 9pm Monday February 17th. The programme is co-produced by Andrea Vogt and features interviews with Meredith Kercher's family, Mignini and others. It also contains an audio recording – which has not been heard in public before – of part of Knox's police interrogation.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/17/meredith-kercher-knox-sollecito-family-murdered

From the article:

A prosecution lawyer, Manuela Comodi, told the documentary: "One person couldn't – all at the same time – hold Meredith still and hold back her hands, because there are very few defensive wounds, inflict those wounds with a smaller knife and then give her the fatal blow with the larger knife. It's impossible. Not even Superman could do it.

"The principal evidence was mixed blood traces from which were extracted mixed DNA of Amanda and Meredith. The only explanation for that mix is that Amanda was bleeding and touched objects that were covered in Meredith's blood. There's no other explanation."​

Even with my shallow knowledge of the case, of physical combat, and of forensic collection techniques, it's clear to me that these claims are complete nonsense. How is it that people go on making them, 6 years on, and get taken seriously?

 

[Desert Fox]

I thought all knife wounds were consistent with a single knife?

 

[anglolawyer]

From the article:

A prosecution lawyer, Manuela Comodi, told the documentary: "One person couldn't – all at the same time – hold Meredith still and hold back her hands, because there are very few defensive wounds, inflict those wounds with a smaller knife and then give her the fatal blow with the larger knife. It's impossible. Not even Superman could do it.

"The principal evidence was mixed blood traces from which were extracted mixed DNA of Amanda and Meredith. The only explanation for that mix is that Amanda was bleeding and touched objects that were covered in Meredith's blood. There's no other explanation."​

Even with my shallow knowledge of the case, of physical combat, and of forensic collection techniques, it's clear to me that these claims are complete nonsense. How is it that people go on making them, 6 years on, and get taken seriously?

If this is all they've got ...

 

[RoseMontague]

I thought all knife wounds were consistent with a single knife?

Yes a smaller knife than the kitchen knife could have made all the wounds. If the kitchen knife was used then a second smaller knife would have had to be used as well. This is why Massei postulated that one of Raffaele's pocket knives was also used in addition to the kitchen knife. Of course there is no evidence for that. The reasoning is completely circular and ignores the simple explanation that only one knife (a smaller one) was used.

 

[RoseMontague]

If this is all they've got ...

I think Machiavelli's advice to me yesterday was...

(it's called logic; you basically need to think, not to believe)

The problem is the more you think about any of the evidence in this case the less likely you are to believe they are guilty.

 

[toto]

A narcissist is not in love with themselves. Nascissists despise themselves. Narcissists are in love with and invested into idealized projection of themselves, called the "grandiose self". Which is a unreal self.



The chaplain Don Saulo is a notorious idiot. He was known for being an redneck when he was working as a priest in a parrish in the outskirts of Perugia.

Could you kindly refer me to any primary sources or links to newspaper articles, or anything you consider relevant to back up this assertion? Thanks if you do reply.

 

[Strozzi]

The clues were right there in front of the police yet they refused to look. So many of the PGP talk about how little was taken. That's because burglary was a secondary motive.

Rudy clearly wasn't an ordinary burglar and fell into that dangerous subgroup. The clues are in all the burglaries that Rudy probably committed that we know. The simple fact that Rudy was "surprised" during two of them. Christian Tremantano and the nursery in Milan. I believe that there his neighbor which he also committed arson showed evidence of the burglar eating from the kitchen as well.

Rudy has all the signs of being a budding dangerous sexual predator.

I agree that there are indications that Guede was initially in no hurry to exit - to steal and get out of there the fastest possible.

I believe "little" was taken because Guede's burglary was interrupted when Kercher came home. If nobody had interrupted him, he (taking his own sweet time) would have taken more - laptops, the camera on the kitchen counter, jewelry if he thought he could sell it, or drugs found while searching in anyone's drawers.

Have the police or prosecution claimed that valuable items left behind are "proof" of a staged break-in/staged burglary? (They obviously don't regard items being left behind as the result of a burglary cut short by a murder and flight.)

 

[Caper]

Just another question.

Someone posted a meatball radio segment from some loser in Seattle going on about how Knox was guilty. I think in that segment he talked about MK having something like 73 or so cuts and bruises.... his point being that in person could not inflict that amount of damage. So when I read the wiki page on last night, it says she has 23 cuts and bruises.... Did the radio host get it wrong... Or did I not hear him right.

 

[Strozzi]

I thought all knife wounds were consistent with a single knife?

Yes, all the knife wounds are consistent with one small knife.

The dimensions of such a knife's blade can be determined by the depth and width of the several stab wounds. If a pathologist is able to measure the stab wounds' internal curvature, it may be possible to discern the actual curvature of the knife's blade. Bruise marks on the skin at the blade entry point may indicate the size and shape of the flat edge end (or hilt) of the handle where the blade enters the handle.

Raffaele's kitchen knife's blade is much too large to have caused any of the stab wounds. Which is why the police and prosecution speculate (with no physical/forensic evidence) that there must have been 2 knives involved. It is a wish, because of their desire that there be more than one attacker so that they can claim that Raffaele or Amanda were involved.

 

[RoseMontague]

Just another question.

Someone posted a meatball radio segment from some loser in Seattle going on about how Knox was guilty. I think in that segment he talked about MK having something like 73 or so cuts and bruises.... his point being that in person could not inflict that amount of damage. So when I read the wiki page on last night, it says she has 23 cuts and bruises.... Did the radio host get it wrong... Or did I not hear him right.

It works both ways Caper and depends on what is considered a wound. I would think that if she was restrained she would have less cuts and bruises, not more. The evidence suggests the fight moved around the room again suggesting she was not restrained by two people while the other attacked her.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Is the quote accurate? Is this a US produced TV programme?

Full article UK Independent

The comments, made to a US-produced programme to be screened on BBC Three tonight, mark a rare public appearance from the Kercher family, who have widely avoided media attention since Meredith’s murder on 2 November 2007. Their stance has been seen as of stark contrast to Knox, who recently posted a photograph in which she holds a placard with the words "We are innocent" written in Italian.

 

[Antony]

As others have said, probably the easiest way for non-UK residents to see this programme is to use an IP proxy and then to go to bbc.co.uk and watch it using the BBC's iPlayer service (internet catch-up of BBC programmes). It's unlikely that this programme will appear on BBC iPlayer until several hours after first transmission - i.e. the middle of the night UK time or perhaps 4pm Seattle time.

When the programme is available on iPlayer, I will post a link to it. To watch it as a non-UK resident, you'll simply need to use an IP proxy website to obtain a UK IP address, and then you'll be able to satisfy the geographic IP recognition on iPlayer.

Aside from that, the BBC places some of its output onto its YouTube site. It may be worth keeping an eye on that as well, to see if this programme is placed there.

The iPlayer link is already there:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03wd39x/Is_Amanda_Knox_Guilty/

- but it doesn't provide any video as I type (11:35am UK time). I believe it should be the same link when the video becomes available to UK viewers.

 

[RoseMontague]

Is the quote accurate? Is this a US produced TV programme?

Full article UK Independent

Well Vogt is American even if she works in Italy and I am not certain on Russell. They have produced documentaries together prior to this one.

http://facttvuk.wordpress.com/

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Well Vogt is American even if she works in Italy and I am not certain on Russell. They have produced documentaries together prior to this one.

http://facttvuk.wordpress.com/

Thanks for the link.

 

[Dan O.]

Does anyone know what M. is talking about here? I'm serious.... is this the fellow who wrote the "narcissism entry for the Italian Wikipedia?

That article was plagiarized from other works by a sock of the editor that called himself Larry. If M is trying to steal the credit he is doing a poor job.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Maybe Garofano suggested bringing up mixed blood

Is the quote accurate? Is this a US produced TV programme?

Full article UK Independent

"Their stance has been seen as of stark contrast to Knox, who recently posted a photograph in which she holds a placard with the words 'We are innocent' written in Italian." The passage above sounds like another version of the story that the family has maintained a dignified silence. Yet the family has not remained silent at all. John, Sr. wrote a book; family members hired lawyers like Maresca, who told falsehoods about the forensics. And they are participating in a documentary whose script might have been coauthored by Colonel Garofano and Harry Rag. It seems as if they included some snippet of Sarah Gino. How "fair and balanced" it is remains to be seen.

Lyle Kercher said, "I'm sure the American government try to extradite a lot of convicted criminals from abroad themselves so I guess they will set a precedent if they didn't uphold their own laws..."

 

[Dan O.]

But pieces of evience must not be objected each one with a single "innocent" exllanation. In order to object evidence, you would need an innocent explanation that explaisn the pieces of evidence altogether.

There is. It's called Rudy Guede the lone thief that broke in and murdered the resident when she unexpectedly returned. The lone thief scenario accounts for all the acceptable evidence including time of death. The evidence that it doesn't fit is evidence that is inconsistent with itself and therefore not acceptable. Curatolo who mashes together fragments of events from several days to create an impossible testimony of seeing a couple watching the cottage from the basketball court on a night the disco busses were running and the next morning seeing the white suited police and ambulance at the cottage. Nara who hears a most terrifying scream and doesn't call the police and reads about the murder at the news kiosk the next morning and still doesn't call the police. Quintavalle who remembers a girl waiting outside his shop the morning after the murder who comes into his store but doesn't buy anything but he remembers those unforgettable blue eyes which he didn't recognize in the photos shown to him by the police in the days immediately after the murder.


Now where is that guilter theory that explains the evidence altogether?

 

[anglolawyer]

snip


Now where is that guilter theory that explains the evidence altogether?

Where indeed? Mach certainly has not attempted one. I am aware of Massei's ludicrous theory but that's it. The ISC did not come up with one. Nencini will have to do better than Massei - which is impossible without mangling or tossing whole hunks of evidence leaving so little left that you might as well say one of us did it.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

"Their stance has been seen as of stark contrast to Knox, who recently posted a photograph in which she holds a placard with the words 'We are innocent' written in Italian." The passage above sounds like another version of the story that the family has maintained a dignified silence. Yet the family has not remained silent at all. John, Sr. wrote a book; family members hired lawyers like Maresca, who told falsehoods about the forensics. And they are participating in a documentary whose script might have been coauthored by Colonel Garofano and Harry Rag. It seems as if they included some snippet of Sarah Gino. How "fair and balanced" it is remains to be seen.

Lyle Kercher said, "I'm sure the American government try to extradite a lot of convicted criminals from abroad themselves so I guess they will set a precedent if they didn't uphold their own laws..."

I disagree, relatively speaking they haven’t said that much publicly; how many articles has John Kercher written in the past six years?

I realise you and others may believe he shouldn’t have written a book but that is no more than what Raffaele and Amanda have done.

If one is to accept that the Sollecito and Knox families have the right to speak about the case from their perspective, I do not understand how the same right should not be applied to the murder victim’s family.

It is not about whether you agree or disagree with their view of the case but acknowledging they have the right to speak about how the murder of their daughter\sister has affected them.

 

[Sergei Walankov]

The point isn't that they shouldn't have done those things - it's that the trope of the Kerchers' "dignified silence" is inaccurate.