Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Bob001]

Idle question: Assume for the sake of argument that Amanda and Raffaele had each given the cops one basic, factual statement. R: "I was at my house all night, and Amanda was with me." A: "I was at Raffaele's all night, and neither of us ever left." Period. No other statements, no visits to the police station, all other inquiries and demands answered with "Talk to my lawyer." Was there any evidence of any kind that would have caused a reasonable investigator to consider them suspects? (The shady DNA business, such as it is, sure looks like a delayed effort to confirm a preconception, not discover facts.)

 

[RandyN]

Dead animal hairs.

Hair shafts as a potential source of DNA is valuable for noninvasive study of human and nonhuman populations. It can be used in genetic analysis to identify individuals and breed in animal husbandry traceability, wild animal germplasm resources protection, forensic medical study and paleontological research, etc. The characteristic of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) extracted from hair shafts has already been well described previously [1]–[5]. In addition, James Robertson et al. [6] described that mtDNA has limited value because mtDNA profiles cannot be compared with national and international databases of Short Tandem Repeat (STR) genotypes. Furthermore, mtDNA cannot discriminate maternal relatives and lack the discriminating power of STR profiles. However, fragmentation of the nuclear DNA (nuDNA) in the hair shafts was considered as a result of the keratinisation process [7] and nuDNA seldom been successfully analyzed. Thus, a major concern in the hair shafts DNA extraction and amplification today is trying to find an efficient, stable and easy way to extract DNA and amplify nuDNA targets.

ETA - count down until an unreadable link is provided by one of our favorites

Hummm that's interesting, so now they will be able to analyze DNA from mummy hair and other finds where before it was tough to get DNA even from teeth or the teeth were certainly necessary. Mr Clean and grape jelly you say?

 

[Mary_H]

Amanda breezed through her story again. 'I stayed the night in Raffaele's flat.' She let the image hang there for a second, so the middle-aged officer could salivate, if he chose, over what the euphemism 'stay the night' really meant when it involved a beautiful young student in full flower. The officer looked at Raffaele, the blank expression thinly veiling his smugness.

Coyly, Amanda continued: 'And then I came back home to have a shower.' She let the image hang there, giving the officer a glimpse into a world he could only fantasize about.

Did she actually let the image hang there two paragraphs in a row, or did the author have at least the skill to separate those two scenes?

 

[Kaosium]

At this point, I'm ready for them to drop the politically correct talk and take off the gloves.

I would have loved to hear him reply by saying something like:

I like yours better, but the problem is at this point unless it turns out there was a video camera functioning at the room at the time and showed the murder and was found in the trash heap where they threw Meredith's stuff some will say there's no way to be ever be absolutely certain of this. That's what a Piers Morgan would likely rebut, and do so with a condescending sneer.

Even with that hypothetical camera footage the Mignini's of the world would say Amanda and Raffaele were just outside the room cheering Rudy on, and if the audio was available that they were doing it in sign language.

However I do think in the long run the guilt argument is doomed to be the repository of cranks and sickos, the understanding of LT DNA evidence can only advance, as will the ease in which the Italian Court System is corrupted and how their evidence standards allowed so much garbage into the courtroom.

Plus I think it will eventually sink in that they caught the murderer of Meredith Kercher! From what I've seen a lot of these miscarriages of justice occur because there can always be the argument, if it wasn't the accused, who can it be? This one already has the answer, the burglar who broke in which is--in the long run at least--a far more probable answer than the spontaneous conspiracy between three people who barely knew each other and a 'staged break in.'

 

[yimyammer]

I like yours better, but the problem is at this point unless it turns out there was a video camera functioning at the room at the time and showed the murder and was found in the trash heap where they threw Meredith's stuff some will say there's no way to be ever be absolutely certain of this. That's what a Piers Morgan would likely rebut, and do so with a condescending sneer.

Unfortunately so, it appears there will never be certainty with this case and the debate will rage on forever while R & A serve time they don't deserve or at least be tagged with a scarlet letter on the days they get to roam free

 

[RandyN]

Was this conversation in Italian, or did the cop speak English and know its idioms?

Bill....its Paul Russell! Either number 1, 2 or 3 of our round robin posters or is that posers?

 

[RWVBWL]

Creepy?

I don't see any bags under her eyes

[qimg]http://www.ilmessaggero.it/FotoGallery_IMG/HIGH/20071106_1.jpg[/qimg]

Good point Grinder!
And in this photo by her boyfriend DJ,
I don't see a creepy gal either,

just a happy gal who was working 3 jobs at the time, excited about going abroad to study soon in Italy...

 

[AmyStrange]

Quiet on the set... now... action

-

I like yours better, but the problem is at this point unless it turns out there was a video camera functioning at the room at the time and showed the murder and was found in the trash heap where they threw Meredith's stuff some will say there's no way to be ever be absolutely certain of this. That's what a Piers Morgan would likely rebut, and do so with a condescending sneer.

Even with that hypothetical camera footage the Mignini's of the world would say Amanda and Raffaele were just outside the room cheering Rudy on, and if the audio was available that they were doing it in sign language.
However I do think in the long run the guilt argument is doomed to be the repository of cranks and sickos, the understanding of LT DNA evidence can only advance, as will the ease in which the Italian Court System is corrupted and how their evidence standards allowed so much garbage into the courtroom.

Plus I think it will eventually sink in that they caught the murderer of Meredith Kercher! From what I've seen a lot of these miscarriages of justice occur because there can always be the argument, if it wasn't the accused, who can it be? This one already has the answer, the burglar who broke in which is--in the long run at least--a far more probable answer than the spontaneous conspiracy between three people who barely knew each other and a 'staged break in.'

-

The PGP camp would say, "they were the one's holding the camera",

d

-

 

[acbytesla]

Plus I think it will eventually sink in that they caught the murderer of Meredith Kercher![ From what I've seen a lot of these miscarriages of justice occur because there can always be the argument, if it wasn't the accused, who can it be? This one already has the answer, the burglar who broke in which is--in the long run at least--a far more probable answer than the spontaneous conspiracy between three people who barely knew each other and a 'staged break in.'

That's the really bizarre thing about this story. They caught and convicted the murderer!!!! It's not like there is some killer out there hiding. No, they got the guy. And there is no connection really to Amanda and Raffaele!!!

Yet somehow that isn't enough. They have to create a connection and a scenario out of thin air.

So here we sit with people who say that "we still don't know what happened"? And I think, "what drugs are you taking and can I have some"?

The killer has been caught. He left his DNA inside Meredith, his palm prints, his shoe prints admits that he was there and he said that Amanda wasn't there!!! What more do these morons want?

 

[Kaosium]

https://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/t...-raffaele-sollecito-nightmare-italian-justice

ANYONE FOLLOWING THE BYZANTINE TRIALS of Amanda Knox, the American exchange student accused with her onetime boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito of murdering her roommate in Perugia, will have noticed that criminal justice in Italy doesn’t work the way it does in other countries.

Heh, years ago when trying to comprehend how this system worked the word that most came to mind was 'Byzantine.' After I'd been calling it that for quite some time there was a general admonishment posted by someone who felt that wasn't fair and hurtful, but I could not be penitent about it like they might have wanted, because that's what it is.

It has nothing to do with whether the US system is better or worse, it has it's own problems and causes its own forms of misery. That's an entirely different question. However this system could be abused to convict just about anyone of just about anything given a determined enough prosecutor, and it's not just the likes of Raffaele and Amanda who suffer from it, ask Sabrina and Cosima Misseri who face an equally (or worse!) absurd conviction from another demented prosecutor.

What they really need in Italy is a laugh track for these prosecutors who propose this insane narratives in contradiction of the actual evidence. Instead they are cowed through calunnia and diffamazione suits so everyone takes seriously the most absurd of theories. They may succeed in burning Amanda, Raffaele, Sabrina and Cosima at the stake, at least in the short term, but in the end I do believe in the end the combined weight of the absurdities will cause it to crumble and reform will be demanded inside and outside Italy as it draws so much attention to itself in this day and age of instant communication. So...'I think is a song of of hope...'

'Does anybody remember laughter?'

 

[RWVBWL]

I wonder what Patrick Cronin thinks...

I was looking at this photograph again a moment ago:

the pants (denim blue jeans?) that Meredith Kercher was last wearing
were bought by her old boyfriend Patrick Cronin.

They lie next to her black underwear and her exposed foot,
not seen, just to the right of this photograph.

I too have bought pants, and many other clothes,
for some of the different gals I've liked, dated and luved.

Here's a couple of links to old interviews of Patrick:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/patrick-cronin-former-boyfriend-of-meredith-1701231
+
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/meredith-kerchers-ex-love-forever-haunted-1673717

He obviously liked Meredith a lot.

As I know that Rudy Guede had walked into Meredith's bathroom to retrieve towels a few times, and that Rudy left evidence of himself on Meredith's bra, her purse, her light blue zippered sweat shirt/jacket, on the pillow found underneath her naked genitalia, and in her own body, I wonder, did Rudy Guede leave fingerprints or DNA on the zipper or buttons on the pants that Patrick bought Meredith?

I also wonder what Patrick Cronin thinks about the up-coming release of Rudy Guede
so that he may continue to study while imprisoned?

It's been a coupla days now,
yet how come I've yet to read any anger at Rudy Guede's up-coming release from prison
from The Kercher's or Meredith's old boyfriend Patrick Cronin?

 

[lionking]

Translation: I couldn't be more wrong if my head was screwed on backwards... So rather then face reality... I'll just nit pik any point I can to make myself feel morally superior.... Because..you know... If I actually had to argue the facts of the case, the lies I would have to defend would not allow me to wash the scum of myself in the morning.

Tell me, what am I wrong about in the post you were responding to? And while you are at it, you could show me just one post where I've said that AK and RS are guilty.

 

[Samson]

You know this isn’t TJMK, PMF .org/.net or injustice anywhere etc etc; is it?

I may live roughly 20 minute walk from where Meredith’s mother lives but I did not know the family before or since Meredith’s murder. That being said, either this thread has become a PIP echo chamber whereby there is no pretence of trying to win the hearts and minds of the great “don’t cares” through discussion verses making crass jokes or comments about the murder victim.

We are as one with regards to Guede.

In the time of reading this thread I have never seen a comment concerning the victim that was not directly related to evidence employed by the prosecution, or the events that are transpiring, including the current contentious one which is only mildly tangential. It refers back to the silence of the Kerchers. All this is polar opposite to the guilt echo chambers, which are filled with infantile dancing mannequins and gruesome hate.

 

[Samson]

Tell me, what am I wrong about in the post you were responding to? And while you are at it, you could show me just one post where I've said that AK and RS are guilty.

Reassuring to me, since I assumed after your recent travels in Italy, where you could find not one soul including distinguished professors who believed in their innocence, that you shared the sentiment. Does this mean you are undecided?

 

[lionking]

Reassuring to me, since I assumed after your recent travels in Italy, where you could find not one soul including distinguished professors who believed in their innocence, that you shared the sentiment. Does this mean you are undecided?

Must someone be certain to post here?

 

[Samson]

Must someone be certain to post here?

No no, but I was "certain" before attempting to add to the debate, and now am hopelessly caught in the dilemma of not wanting to waste time, but being earnestly concerned for the kids.
ETA, Seems no interest in this case from the southern hemisphere, maybe we should be analysing Pistorious.

 

[kcoh]

I know it has already been posted, but I thought I would post the entire article.

Clinical law professor, Steve Drizin, is now speaking on the behalf of Amanda Knox. He specializes in wrongful convictions and false confessions. Hannah Riley, his co-author, works for the Innocence Project. I was wondering when that organization would become involved.

Knox and Sollecito: Victims of a Prosecutor's 'Conspiracy Theories' to Explain Away DNA

This post was co-authored with Hannah Riley, a communications associate at the Innocence Project.

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 4. You will not post "copyrighted" material in its entirety and do not post large amounts of material available from other sites.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-drizin/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-_b_4757435.html

 

[Mary_H]

No no, but I was "certain" before attempting to add to the debate, and now am hopelessly caught in the dilemma of not wanting to waste time, but being earnestly concerned for the kids.
ETA, Seems no interest in this case from the southern hemisphere, maybe we should be analysing Pistorious.

We have a few fabulous Aussies.

 

[Samson]

We have a few fabulous Aussies.

Good, I have only noticed Kevin Lowe and Lionking post on this from Aussie, no one but me from NZ.

 

[Sergei Walankov]

I'm an Australian who visits here daily and posts occasionally. The story is certainly not as big here as it is in the three affected countries. The first I heard of it was when they were acquitted. I'd say if you accosted someone at random here, chances are they'd be dimly aware of it.