Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Kaosium]

Well, I can say that I 100% believe in their innocence. I am no longer confused or on the fences about it.

It took you less time than it did me! I thought they were probably guilty at first as well and read the entirety of PMF. Then I came to JREF and saw them battling Kestrel, Dan-0, Chris Halkides, Kevin Lowe, Charlie Wilkes, Bruce Fisher and others and saw how all that I'd read down the bunnyhole couldn't stand skeptical scrutiny.

 

[kcoh]

I know this has been discussed before, but what in the world generates this anti-Knox mania. I look at her and see a woman with intelligence, discipline and courage. What in the world are other people seeing that I am missing?

From what I have read off of various sites, people see "sociopath," "psychopath," "witch," "evil," "manipulative," "devious," "shifty eyes." At least those are the descriptions of Knox that I have seen on CNN (from those that believe in her guilt; there are many who comment on CNN that do not believe she is guilty), DailyMail, TMZ, Websleuths, and some other ones. What is funny is that I found a lot of these comments about Knox under articles about Sollecito. It saddens me how they ignore him but are completely obsessed with her. Oh, and anyone who defends Knox is being paid by her "PR machine."

 

[kwill]

Well, I can say that I 100% believe in their innocence. I am no longer confused or on the fences about it.

Frightening, isn't it? This could have happened to anybody. One thing I've learned from these threads is that it's not even terribly unusual; certainly it does happen in the USA.

You might find this radio show interesting -- I happened to hear it and then saw that Amanda herself had posted a link on her own blog.

Two crime scenes, two murders. One crime is solved, the other case went cold. Both raise the question: What should a person suspected of murder say?

 

[RoseMontague]

Well, I can say that I 100% believe in their innocence. I am no longer confused or on the fences about it.

It took me quite a few more posts than you. Good for you. I think reading the Massei report is what finally convinced me they were innocent. I have since found out that this has happened with several other people as well.

 

[acbytesla]

Well, I can say that I 100% believe in their innocence. I am no longer confused or on the fences about it.

Now you're in trouble.... It's when you realize that this is all bull feces that you get mad and if you're like me...you get a little obsessed.

I want this whole thing to end..but it doesn't... I thought it was going to end last March...and there was a part of me that wanted it to continue.... God or whatever laughed at me and said..."don't tempt fate"...and it goes on and on and on.

Anyone else feel like this is the Ground Hog Day?

"Okay, campers, rise and shine, and don't forget your booties 'cause it's cooooold out there today."

"I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl. We ate lobster, drank piña coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters.

" *That* was a pretty good day. Why couldn't I get *that* day over, and over, and over..."

 

[Dan O.]

If Amanda was well treated during the interrogation and lied about the abuse, why is it that in six years the police have refused to release recordings of the interrogation and were unwilling to have lawyers present?

Even without the recordings, we know that Ficarra was taking notes starting before Amanda was moved into the interrogation room. Where's are those notes?

 

[kcoh]

It took you less time than it did me! I thought they were probably guilty at first as well and read the entirety of PMF. Then I came to JREF and saw them battling Kestrel, Dan-0, Chris Halkides, Kevin Lowe, Charlie Wilkes and others and saw how all that I'd read down the bunnyhole couldn't stand skeptical scrutiny.

I had always been on the fence, mainly because the arguments for them being guilty never made any sense. On the other hand, I thought there was evidence that implicated them due to a few biased sites I had read. I was told that they weren't biased and that they only posted factual information, but this is untrue. After reading the Massei report, I started to believe in their innocence even more because the prosecution's argument was laughable. They get off to a bad start with the "staged" break-in and they never get any better after that. After going through the several threads on the JREF forum and seeing the sources posted, I 100% believe that they did not do it.

 

[Vibio]

It's an open secret that Italian police rough up suspects during interrogations. It is also considered a serious crime to claim that the police abuse suspects. In effect, this gives the police a rather free hand. All they need to do is avoid recording the interrogation and it becomes the word of the police against a suspected criminal. We all understand which side the courts will take in that event.

There are so many lies posted on this thread that its hard to keep up.

"It's an open secret that Italian police rough up suspects during interrogations. "

With that statement you are implying that the Italian police routinely rough up suspects. Certainly this does happen here… as it does in the US. But routinely? As a matter of course? I don't think so.

It is also considered a serious crime to claim that the police abuse suspects.

Oh really? Do you read Italian? Do you watch Italian investigative news programs? Do you know anything about Italian activism?

Tell me: how does does a TV show like "Pressdiretta" exist?

This is the RAI, our state television channel reporting about the death of Michele Ferrulli at the hands of the police. Watch it. Watch the witnesses speak.

This episode is called "Morti di Stato" ("Deaths by the State")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3JKm5qKt8g

This is the Pressadiretta website (and this is only one of a number of great Italian investigative programs):

http://www.presadiretta.rai.it/dl/p...d-0ef6-4b0c-9e6f-9801066c32d8.html?refresh_ce

And if It is "considered a serious crime to claim that the police abuse suspects" then tell me: how does a website like this exist?

http://www.abusodipolizia.it/

………………………………………

The problem with Ms. Knox is that she's a liar.

Her lawyers never filed any complaint of police abuse.

In fact, during the trial, her lawyer Luciano Ghirga in a taped interview said “There were pressures from the police, but we never said she was hit.” "

Someone is lying…. I wonder who?

More from Girgha speaking about her alibis:

"A lawyer for Knox, Luciano Ghirga, told reporters Friday that his client had given "three versions and ... it is difficult to evaluate which one is true."

"He also said he had warned Knox against making unfounded accusations. "We told her that it would be worse than assassination to accuse an innocent person. We explained to her what slander means in Italy and we'll see," Ghirga said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/09/AR2007110901457_pf.html

 

[AmyStrange]

Rock-Bottom Gospel

-

Not unless you count the spirit of Mignini channeling through Rudy as his personal sock puppet in a venu that didn't allow cross examination.

-

What were debating again? Oh that's right, how true everything Rudy said and wrote was.

I stand by my statement that it is quite possible Rudy went back after getting rid of the phones, but that doesn't make it probable, just possible.

You believe there is no way in hell he went back, because many of the things he said indicated (to you) that he didn't.

Yes, I can see how you would think that everything Rudy said is rock-bottom Gospel, but I just don't,

d

-

 

[kcoh]

Now you're in trouble.... It's when you realize that this is all bull feces that you get mad and if you're like me...you get a little obsessed.

I want this whole thing to end..but it doesn't... I thought it was going to end last March...and there was a part of me that wanted it to continue.... God or whatever laughed at me and said..."don't tempt fate"...and it goes on and on and on.

Anyone else feel like this is the Ground Hog Day?

"Okay, campers, rise and shine, and don't forget your booties 'cause it's cooooold out there today."

"I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl. We ate lobster, drank piña coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters.

" *That* was a pretty good day. Why couldn't I get *that* day over, and over, and over..."

I am obsessed, I have to say. The thought that they could serve over twenty years in prison frightens me and I am even more worried about Sollecito because he is an Italian citizen. I wish someone else with more knowledge would get involved, but I believe that will not happen until Italy asks for Knox to be extradited, if they ever do. What scares me is that you have their human rights being violated for the world to see and people are still screaming to have them locked up.

It took me quite a few more posts than you. Good for you. I think reading the Massei report is what finally convinced me they were innocent. I have since found out that this has happened with several other people as well.

It was after reading the Massei report that I, too, started to believe in their innocence.

 

[Planigale]

It took me quite a few more posts than you. Good for you. I think reading the Massei report is what finally convinced me they were innocent. I have since found out that this has happened with several other people as well.

Me too!

 

[Bill Williams]

It took me quite a few more posts than you. Good for you. I think reading the Massei report is what finally convinced me they were innocent. I have since found out that this has happened with several other people as well.

My wish is that everyone would take a few days and go through the Massei report from 2010. Like you, it is what finally nailed it for me that the two were innocent.

The one thing that Massei does is completely reinvent the crime from what the prosecution presented at the 2009 trial. What was claimed as a premeditated act by Mignini/Comodi becomes a wrong place/wrong time crime for two basically decent students, who made an uncharacteristic choice for evil.

Imagine both Amanda and Raffaele reading Massei's version of the crime they were supposed to have committed, and they're reading the details of it 90 days after the trial has finished.

Meaning: how were they supposed to have defended themselves from what Massei alleges - his "probablies", and his, "if it didn't happen that way, then I'm at a loss to explain........"?

I guess the process kinf of trapped Massei into this... he was trying to write a motivations to support a guilty verdict, but the prosecution case obviously did not do it for him, so he had to invent all sorts of details of his own.

It convinced me not only that they were innocent, but that probably Massei privately thought so too.

No wonder guilters never try to do what Massei did.

 

[kcoh]

I have now bought Waiting to Be Heard, Honor Bound, Murder in Italy, and Angel Face on iBooks. Is there anything that I should know before I read them?

 

[acbytesla]

I am obsessed, I have to say. The thought that they could serve over twenty years in prison frightens me and I am even more worried about Sollecito because he is an Italian citizen. I wish someone else with more knowledge would get involved, but I believe that will not happen until Italy asks for Knox to be extradited, if they ever do. What scares me is that you have their human rights being violated for the world to see and people are still screaming to have them locked up.

I am also obsessed and really wish I wasn't. It is frightening...isn't it? It's like what Andy Dufresne says near the end of The Shawshank Redemption, "I was in the path of the tornado... I just didn't expect the storm would last as long as it has."

BTW** Lots of people with more knowledge have gotten involved. There is the FOA Friends of Amanda which include some very high profile attorneys. Almost immediately after the most recent verdict, the Jr. Senator from Washington sent a letter to the US State Department. Amanda has been at parties (at least one) in Washington DC that had some very powerful people at including US Senators, Congress men and women. Amanda's agent who shopped the rights to her book around also performed that service to to two US Presidents.

I don't know if that will stop this stupid train..but you would think it would help.

 

[Kaosium]

I had always been on the fence, mainly because the arguments for them being guilty never made any sense. On the other hand, I thought there was evidence that implicated them due to a few biased sites I had read. I was told that they weren't biased and that they only posted factual information, but this is untrue. After reading the Massei report, I started to believe in their innocence even more because the prosecution's argument was laughable. They get off to a bad start with the "staged" break-in and they never get any better after that. After going through the several threads on the JREF forum and seeing the sources posted, I 100% believe that they did not do it.

When I first started reading about the case in summer '10 the Massei Report was in the process of being translated. I was on vacation and spent my nights reading through PMF (and later JREF) as my introduction to the case. I figured I'd need to read that report before deciding so I put it away until fall of '10 when I'd heard the appeal for the calunnia charge was due to go back into court and I figured the Massei Report translation would be available. It didn't take long after that to figure out mostly what had happened.

 

[Caper]

I have now bought Waiting to Be Heard, Honor Bound, Murder in Italy, and Angel Face on iBooks. Is there anything that I should know before I read them?

Watch Frontlines "The Confessions", it's an unrelated case.... but could not be more relevant IMO.... I know I sound like a broken record, promoting it.... but personally I don't think 90% of the population can believe a person can confess to a crime they did not commit..... I believe that is what hurts Knox the most.

One of the best documentaries about injustice I have ever seen.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-confessions/

 

[Paninaro]

Someone is lying…. I wonder who?

That would be Judge Claudia Matteini I suppose, who lied about Sollecito's footprints being in Kercher's room and his 3.3-inch-long-blade knife being the murder weapon? And about Lumumba being involved, even though Knox already on the 7th had told the prosecutor Mignini that her "confession" was not true and that she in fact didn't know at all if Lumumba was involved?

 

[kcoh]

I am also obsessed and really wish I wasn't. It is frightening...isn't it? It's like what Andy Dufresne says near the end of The Shawshank Redemption, "I was in the path of the tornado... I just didn't expect the storm would last as long as it has."

BTW** Lots of people with more knowledge have gotten involved. There is the FOA Friends of Amanda which include some very high profile attorneys. Almost immediately after the most recent verdict, the Jr. Senator from Washington sent a letter to the US State Department. Amanda has been at parties (at least one) in Washington DC that had some very powerful people at including US Senators, Congress men and women. Amanda's agent who shopped the rights to her book around also performed that service to to two US Presidents.

I don't know if that will stop this stupid train..but you would think it would help.

I had no idea that many people have already gotten involved. I know that many experts have discredited some of the evidence presented by the prosecution. Were any of them scientists? I ask because this forum has an emphasis on science.

 

[Bill Williams]

Now the Daily Express in the UK is joining in with sanity:

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/frederick-forsyth/458391/Amanda-Knox-trial-was-just-a-farce

Amanda Knox trial was just a farce

Following the bizarre decision of an Italian court to reverse the Appeal Court’s ruling of three years ago and pronounce Amanda Knox guilty after all of the murder of Meredith Kercher in 2007, sections of our media have launched another tidal wave of hate against the American girl.

British judges of appeal do indeed reverse verdicts but only on the production of compelling new evidence. In this case there was not one jot of fresh finding, just an arbitrary decision by a new judge.

There are two conclusions the detached British observer can safely make. We will now never really know what happened on that awful night of October 31 to November 1 in a cottage on the outskirts of Perugia.

The only safe verdict is the Scottish one: not proven. But in England that means doubt, and the accused has the benefit.

The other is, if you want to be accused of a crime you did not commit choose the six nations of the Anglo-sphere – Britain, Ireland, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand – or Scandinavia.

Avoid like the plague all countries whose jurisprudence is based on the Code Napoleon: no habeas corpus, no prisoner rights, no presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

 

[kcoh]

Watch Frontlines "The Confessions", it's an unrelated case.... but could not be more relevant IMO.... I know I sound like a broken record, promoting it.... but personally I don't think 90% of the population can believe a person can confess to a crime they did not commit..... I believe that is what hurts Knox the most.

One of the best documentaries about injustice I have ever seen.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-confessions/

I will. Thank you for recommending it.

I thought Knox made a false witness statement and not a false confession? As I understand it, false witness statements are common.

This may be entering a sort of taboo area, but I have seen many people refer to Knox as racist because she implicated her boss on many sites that are packed with people who believe in her guilt. They seem to think that she is guilty because of it and that she blamed Patrick due to his race and not for any other reason. I thought that she had implicated him because of the text messages that the police were hounding her about and because they believed it to be him due to the findings of a hair of an African male at the crime scene? Correct me if I am wrong.