Why would an intelligent designer use mass extinctions?

Scorpion said:
It is the occult view that the universe is created as a realm of experience, and God put the whole thing into motion as a perfect plan for the evolution of the immortal spirits of his children through countless incarnations. God does not interfere in the process because it is flawlessly continuing to its intended conclusion. Which is the enlightenment of all souls.There are many planets we incarnate on and we do not incarnate there until the conditions are right for us. Lesser animals are evolving toward their own perfection, and the dinosaurs did not die out, they simply moved to another planet to continue their evolution, and some of them have evolved into birds on this planet. So mass extinctions are just natural events that do not impede spiritual evolution.
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All of which, of course is utterly untestable.
 
A whimsical sense of humour?

God may be eternal, but he may also be eternally thirteen years old.
 
I Ratant said:
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That explains the Chixulub crater... it's the hole blasted by the dinosaur's space ship when it left.
Their technology, it's a shame we lost that, but I expect since there's no evidence of any, it must have been water soluble and just melted away in the summer rains since.
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I did not mean the dinosaurs left in a spaceship, I meant that their immortal spirits incarnated on another viable planet when they were wiped out on this one. It is clear to me that God would not keep all his eggs in one basket, and the spirit world teaches that we incarnate on many different planets. This includes animals, which are evolving to perfection in their own right.
 
tsig said:
And that purpose is us?
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The spirit world teaches that this universe is a God created realm of experience designed to evolve the immortal spirits of all Gods children.
That includes animals as well as us.
 
bruto said:
In honor of bygone good times, can we ask how much a dinosaur soul weighs?
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Spirit bodies are made of energy vibrating at a far higher rate than earthy atoms, so I doubt they weigh anything.
 
Was there a dinosaur "fall" and consequent "salvation"?
Did they leave any shrines?
 
I Ratant said:
Was there a dinosaur "fall" and consequent "salvation"?
Did they leave any shrines?
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This would be an interesting question to ask a spirit guide, Maybe the spirits of dinosaurs have evolved culture on other planets since their extinction here. But I have not attended any trance lectures since the 1970's so I cannot ask.
I did attend many trance lectures by the late Ursular Roberts, and I did ask questions of her spirit guide, but those days are gone and I have no contact with spiritualism now. Here is a link to some of the teachings of Ramadahn.



http://www.meilach.com/spiritual/books/wisdomoframadahn/wisdomoframadahn.htm
 
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bruto said:
As to the first question, no doubt scientists agree that we can never know everything, and that we can never understand all that there is to understand, but I think the point of theists' "mystery" is to tell us that understanding is not only beyond our capability but beyond our province. It is not just unattainable but inconceivable, not just over-ambitious but a trespass. When someone says "God works in mysterious ways" he's not saying "you aren't there yet." He's saying "Don't go there."
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I am not saying ;don't go there' but I am saying that I can only go there in metaphor, and I donlt think human being have a bead on 'what is perfect' and I don;t understand why people think a ID would be 'perfect' therefore 'because' things are not 'perfect' there can be no possibility of their being an ID.

And of story? For some. Simply put, they are saying 'don't go there - it does not exist'.
 
smartcooky said:
I don't think its an "issue" for the evolutionary process, as such.

The mistake that creationists and ID proponents make is that they think there is some "purpose" to existence; there isn't. Right and wrong, kindness and cruelty, fairness and unfairness are human concepts, that we apply to the universe in our efforts to give existence some meaning. I'm almost tempted to say "the Universe doesn't care" except that would be wrong as it technically applies conciousness to the universe where none exists. The Universe just "is"; it exists, and we exist in it.

Evolution is something that we observe happening in the universe. Evolution is not working towards an "end"; it has no purpose or planned end product in sight. Evoluton, as a concept, began to take place at the beginning of the universe ~13.7 BYA, continues to this day, and will most likely continue until the end of the Universe, whenever and however that might be.
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If ID is behind the creation of and evident within as consciousness, then the actual material and process which shapes the material (evolution) is in itself not the thing which has the agenda, but the thing which is used to make the agenda possible.

So no, evolution is simply a process. It has no agenda. Only Consciousness can have an agenda.
 
Scorpion said:
It is the occult view that the universe is created as a realm of experience, and God put the whole thing into motion as a perfect plan for the evolution of the immortal spirits of his children through countless incarnations. God does not interfere in the process because it is flawlessly continuing to its intended conclusion. Which is the enlightenment of all souls.There are many planets we incarnate on and we do not incarnate there until the conditions are right for us. Lesser animals are evolving toward their own perfection, and the dinosaurs did not die out, they simply moved to another planet to continue their evolution, and some of them have evolved into birds on this planet. So mass extinctions are just natural events that do not impede spiritual evolution.
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This view is held by many, some who would not think themselves 'occultists' and would even view practicing 'occult' as 'not good'. Which is strange when you understand through observing these sometimes seemingly opposing groups, that the underlying concept of those groups is the similar/same

It is a fairly practical way of viewing the reality of the physical universe and our position(s) within it in relation to that which we do not know about it.
 
NekoTheCat said:
You misunderstand what I mean I think. When I said it was an issue for evolution, I merely meant its an issue for a god who is said to be powerful enough to make a universe, and a moral being who is said to have some sort of hand in starting off evolution and guiding it towards the creation of human beings. Essentially the western style god who has some hand in evolution and is supposedly moral. And the evolutionary process is an issue for the belief in such a god because evolution pretty much inherently revolves around death and suffering.
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If death and suffering were all there was to it and continuation of consciousness wasn't factored in, then it might seem more a mad invention of an ID but there is also fun and happiness, and the possibility that there is continuation of individual conscious awareness after the body dies so the argument isn't really fully thought out.
 
tsig said:
And that purpose is us?
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To survive as a species in the most ideal manner, create machinery which will be used for this purpose and eventually for the purpose of extending the planets seed out into the cosmos.

'Us' are the consciousness, not the forms.

The consciousness using the forms.
 
Navigator said:
I am not saying ;don't go there' but I am saying that I can only go there in metaphor, and I donlt think human being have a bead on 'what is perfect' and I don;t understand why people think a ID would be 'perfect' therefore 'because' things are not 'perfect' there can be no possibility of their being an ID.

And of story? For some. Simply put, they are saying 'don't go there - it does not exist'.
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I basically agree with much of what you say, but given that the idea of ID is only an idea, and that no real evidence exists, it seems frustratingly futile to speculate on what it might be if it did exist, and doubly futile to imagine how an equally unproven being exhibiting undefinable characteristics might have planned it. Back many years ago when my stepson was a child, he went through a Star Wars phase, and I recall that he pored over things like blueprints of the X-wing fighter, and mechanical maps of the Millennium Falcon. Speculating on why God might have implemented ID seems a bit like that.

I suppose that this kind of thing is why I find myself more and more sidestepping much of philosophy, but still occasionally invoking a form of the Pragmatist maxim: what difference does it make? If we can never even know if a thing actually exists, much less what it does, is there any point analyzing it? Were there enough fire extinguishers on the Death Star?
 
Navigator said:
If death and suffering were all there was to it and continuation of consciousness wasn't factored in, then it might seem more a mad invention of an ID but there is also fun and happiness, and the possibility that there is continuation of individual conscious awareness after the body dies so the argument isn't really fully thought out.
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1) How are you defining consciousness, and what do you mean by continuation?
2) I'd say it seems more indicative of no ID at all as opposed to a mad invention.
3) Not all creatures that have lived can be said to have experienced either fun or happiness, nor is it clear that any amount of fun and/or happiness at all justifies the addition of cruelty and suffering.
4) Whether or not there is somehow some sort of continuation of consciousness after the body dies seems quite irrelevant unless someone can demonstrate that experiencing suffering is somehow something necessary for some reason after death.
 
Brian-M said:
But evolution even works with non-conscious organisms, such as plants, bacteria, sponges, fungi, ect. Clearly consciousness is not required.
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These type organisms are presumed not to have any kind of self awareness.
Presumption is not clarity.
But it is acceptable to me that some living forms can be 'set to automatic' - In relation to god ideas, these are specific to human beings, and human being are consciousness in form.

And clearly consciousness is required in relation to that form.
 
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