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Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Can you please tell Machiavelli that the climb is simply a non-issue, it is doable - despite what Kermit tried to show in his now long-since debunked powerpoints on the subject.

I really don't give a ratz azz about who said what on this point.

I do know that Massei never claims that the climb is impossible.

As for Machiavelli: he's by far the best and most informed poster here about this case.

Be that as it may: I do not agree 100% with everything he says.
 
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And if you followed the thread you would have read my answer.

I have followed closely and I did not see it. Again, you don't get asked twice. You have no theory, just a bunch of half-assed sneers and affected incredulity. Thank you and goodbye.
 
All material on Sollecito's compter was recovered. There was no physical evidence of tampering, no evidence that the damage was deliberate.

Cite please. How could they possibly determine damage wasn't deliberate? How long did this take?
 
You have no theory...

I never claimed I had a theory.

I was asked about digestive times many, many pages ago... my answer was : "I have no idea".

I'm not a full time student of this case and I have a life that does not allow 30 plus posts a day 24/7 about a convicted felon.

I am not an expert on DNA. I'm not an expert about digestion. Etc.

I have not been in the court room and foll0wed the trial. I am not on the jury.
 
You're right Grinder, They could have thought of everything. But then, how do you conclude that this was the result of staging?

Tesla a test that showed the window was broken from the outside proves nothing as to whether the break-in was staged or not. That's the point.
 
The good cop delivered the food and drink and the bad cop delivered the slaps to the head. Nothing unusual there, just move along.

I don't know why I didn't think of that until you just mentioned it. Classic Good Cop, Bad Cop. Good call Grinderl
 
Cite please. How could they possibly determine damage wasn't deliberate? How long did this take?

Perugiamurderfile.org has the original defence team technical report. And they have the original documents written in Italian (the English translation is not great)

However, I notice that now, in order to access the files, one most register and I'm not interested in registering. But they are there if you are interested.
 
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let's listen to the tape

Uh Kwill...please follow the thread and the reason why I posted about Latko.
My impression is that kwill is doing a much better job at following that case than you did with respect to recordings at the station, or had you forgotten?
 
can't explain away the bare very clear footprint on the bathmat. Let's say for the sake of argument it's Rudy's...how did it get there? Did he fly? It was obviously a naked foot covered in blood. Who cleaned up the other bare footprints going into the bathroom?
Are we to believe he showered? Where were his cloths and shoes when he showered? How did he move from A-B?

You ask two questions: how did he get there, and who cleaned up the intervening steps.

I'll give you one thing. You are sticking close to Massei's own reasoning about the bathmat print.

But a couple of things - one - Rudy admits going into the bathroom to get towels.

Also, a clean itself would be revealed.... Massei goes out of his way to say that there is no smell of bleach at the cottage, which in my view is Massei's admission that if there'd been a clean it was not with bleach.

But any clean, particularly of blood, itself would be revealed. Unless one themselves carries luminol with them, to double check they have it all - even a clean would leave swirls and trace amounts of blood invisible to the eye - which is the whole reason luminol is used as a presumptive test.

However, once again, this is negative evidence. Rudy obviously DID go into the bathroom, and he obviously DID leave his footprint on the mat. It would actually make more sense to accuse someone of planting Rudy's footprint there than question (on the grounds mentioned) it's veracity.
 
I never claimed I had a theory.

I was asked about digestive times many, many pages ago... my answer was : "I have no idea".

I'm not a full time student of this case and I have a life that does not allow 30 plus posts a day 24/7 about a convicted felon.

I am not an expert on DNA. I'm not an expert about digestion. Etc.

I have not been in the court room and foll0wed the trial. I am not on the jury.

What a bunch of know-nothing comments.
 
I really don't give a ratz azz about who said what on this point.

I do know that Massei never claims that the climb is impossible.

As for Machiavelli: he's by far the best and most informed poster here about this case.
Be that as it may: I do not agree 100% with everything he says.

In a sense you are right. He obviously has inside knowledge as to how the courts in Italy are interpreting things. I find him valuable for that.
 
Perugiamurderfile.org has the original defence team technical report. And they have the original documents written in Italian (the English translation is not great)

However, I notice that now, in order to access the files, one most register and I'm not interested in registering. But they are there if you are interested.

Sorry but not a credible source.

You could try to explain how it could be proven the damage wasn't deliberate, but you really can't, can you?
 
It's just a lone footprint

can't explain away the bare very clear footprint on the bathmat. Let's say for the sake of argument it's Rudy's...how did it get there? Did he fly? It was obviously a naked foot covered in blood. Who cleaned up the other bare footprints going into the bathroom?

Are we to believe he showered? Where were his cloths and shoes when he showered? How did he move from A-B?
Your conclusion does not follow from your premise, and there is no evidence of a clean-up, such as swirls or streaks revealed by luminol. I strongly suggest reading Dan O.'s and Katy Did's thoughts on the matter.
 
You asked when Hendry visited Perugia but you cannot say which part of his analysis depends on a personal inspection.


Oh OK I got it. Some guy in Texas... can I see a bio on this guy... some cases he's worked on? Can you list them?

He's reviewed photographs? Golly!

-----------------

This is Ron Hendry's bio... the most complete I can find:

"Ron Hendry is a retired Forensic Engineer (aka Accident Reconstructionist) with 28 years of experience at evaluating and reconstructing serious to fatal incidents based on the physical evidence. Mr. Hendry is a degreed Mechanical Engineer who held a Professional Engineering License during his consulting career. His body of work was primarily with regard civil litigation matters. However, his work has required him to interact extensively with police and review their reports, interview witnesses, review autopsy reports, and review statements and depositions of witnesses and experts. Ron has extensive experience in evaluating incidents from scene photos and witness testimony in cases where the physical evidence was no longer around. In several instances, Ron has evaluated injuries of those involved to ascertain how they occurred."

Oh please.
 
Speaking honestly, I don't thoroughly understand,with any sort of real confidence, how the DNA found mixed with AK's in the room with the broken window can be dismissed. It's found mixed in more than one spot, correct?

Why would you suppose that DNA from a spot on the other side of the cottage that tested negative for blood was the result of the murder and not months of cohabitation? It's not like Stefanoni released all her results and you have an objective summary of all DNA found. Stefanoni only released what she wanted to and hid the rest of her data, some of which was eventually released late into the original trial which showed she was lying about the work she did, some she refused to give to the independent experts and defied a judge's order as well and has not been seen to this day. Handing over the EDFs which would allow someone to analyze the entirety of the DNA work is commonplace and the only reason to keep hiding them is she has something more to hide.

I can't wrap my head around all the excuses made for RS's DNA on that clasp.

I can't wrap my head around the idea that two other people were supposedly in that room and the only trace that could be attributed to them was found six weeks later after the scene had been trashed by forensic technicians who were done with their work. Raffaele had been to the cottage, he was at the discovery and even exerted himself at that door. Finding a low template sample that by definition has been contaminated with his DNA given the testing of numerous items is not that unusual.

Same with the knife. I don't care the test couldn't be replicated. It was there and it was a match to Meredith. If RS didn't, with his own words, didn't put her blood on that knife ...maybe I could get over my suspicion.

Raffaele had been told the day before by his lawyer the knife was a 'smokescreen' and not to worry about it because perhaps someone took the knife to the cottage to use it for its intended purpose, it was just a kitchen knife. So sitting in solitary with nothing else to do he came up with what seemed like the only possible scenario: he recalled brushing Meredith with a knife when cooking and he assumed he must have had the kitchen knife in his hand, it was the only thing he could think of and figured it had to be true. He just didn't consider the possibility it came from the lab which had tested hundreds of items with Meredith's DNA on them, and the bare trace they found fits perfectly with that scenario but not with it being evidence of that blade being used on Meredith because that knife did not match the wounds and tested negative for blood. How do all blood traces get removed and not some stray DNA as the former are far sturdier than the latter.

It was in a letter/diary he was writing, it's not like he ever told authorities this!

I can't explain away the bare very clear footprint on the bathmat.

Very clear? What do you mean by that? Have you ever actually seen this footprint? Didn't I link it for you?

Let's say for the sake of argument it's Rudy's...how did it get there? Did he fly? It was obviously a naked foot covered in blood. Who cleaned up the other bare footprints going into the bathroom?

The bathmat stain is not pure blood, it's diluted with water. That means you need a source of water of which there's plenty in the bathroom and not in the murder room. Therefore you shouldn't expect footprints from the murder room to the bathroom, odds are Rudy got blood on his foot in the process of cleaning the blood from his trousers or shoe with the bidet or shower and then stepped on the bathmat.
 
Sorry but not a credible source.

You could try to explain how it could be proven the damage wasn't deliberate, but you really can't, can you?

No I can't.

If you all want to pretend to be computer experts, DNA experts, digestive tract experts... fine.

All I can do is rely on what is written in the conclusion of the defense teams technical report. And check to see if Knox's defense filed a complaint about tampering or if it was brought up at trial. Or if the material was recovered or not. That's the best I can do.
 
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Tesla a test that showed the window was broken from the outside proves nothing as to whether the break-in was staged or not. That's the point.

ROFL I understand the point Grinder. The question was rhetorical.
 
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I never claimed I had a theory.



I was asked about digestive times many, many pages ago... my answer was : "I have no idea".



I'm not a full time student of this case and I have a life that does not allow 30 plus posts a day 24/7 about a convicted felon.



I am not an expert on DNA. I'm not an expert about digestion. Etc.



I have not been in the court room and foll0wed the trial. I am not on the jury.


They're a snippy rude bunch eh?
 
What do you think of the arguments that are presented on Websleuths? They are, for the most part, convinced that they are guilty and have argued that the prosecution has proven it. I think they are convincing. They often argue that the footprints detected by luminol belonged to Amanda and that it does not matter whether or not the bra clasp was contaminated because Sollecito's DNA was not supposed to be on it in the first place.
 
No. You are not typical at all. I have served on three juries and all had the concepts of presumption of innocence and that guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Your bias is obvious.

I have been on one. . . .We tried to be fair as well

One concern though. I have read that even people who know better will often give too much weight to confessions.
 
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