Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Kaosium]

Not in the United States. Here it is a sign of interest, a complimentary one in many cases.

Well, let's not confuse him, there was a little irony intended as his arguments contradicted each other on that subject.

Just pointing out 'inconsistencies.'

 

[Machiavelli]

False. Candace had an typo involving a year, which she corrected when it was pointed out to her. The rest of your comment is just...silly.

A typo in all her pages !

 

[Bill Williams]

Machiavelli, this is a lie and you know it.

The one thing you cannot do is provide a cite for this. What does it say when you must buttress your factoids with lies?

You'll scream and yell and make further factoid allegations and assertions - the one thing you will not do is back up anything you say.

Actually I am the person who backs up most precisely everything I say.
For example, did you notice I cited art. 350 § 7 when answring to LJ's claim that the SC found the spontaneous statement to be improper or non spontaneous?
It happens that the TJMK folks have obtained a lot of interesting documentation including many payments to Frank Sfarzo.

Is not this reply exactly what I said you'd do? At least I back up my claims... correction you did it for me.

You make further baseless assertions, without supplying one citation, to make it seem like you've backed up your previous baseless assertion. You have built your case lie upon lie.

 

[acbytesla]

Did you bother to read my posts before falsely calling me a liar?

Apparently, you made a mistake though about saying that Raffaele was charged with unjustifiably carrying a weapon for carrying his Spyderco with it's 3" blade. The article says it was for carrying the large cooking knife.

Such a joke.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

one of them -ini foods (with thanks to Paul Dooley)

The trouble with guilters is that they do not even try to compose a coherent timeline - and this is on a skepticism site. On a skepticism site, presumably one based on fact rather than prejudice, you'd think the mods would be out on the watch for that.

Look what you've done - you've exposed someone who takes great pleasure in taunting someone over carrying a knife, then goes on to imply that Raffaele probably wasn't even involved with his knife in the first place.

Machiavelli has NEVER even tried a comprehensive timeline, at one time saying that one wasn't needed.

To me, this is shorthand for - "We'll just throw factoids at them until one sticks."
Kind of like what the various prosecutions and courts have done in relation to motive.

A CNN piece said that Nencini convicted them on the "sex game gone wrong" theory. Did he?

The ISC seems to have stipulated that as a motive. But what did prosecutor Crini say in Florence? He had the pooh in the toilet theory, one that has the unfortunate effect of making Meredith out to be a complete bitch, complaining about Rudy's pooh - in a toilet that is not even hers. Did Crini even understand there were TWO toilets on that level of the cottage? And what everyone can agree on is that Meredith was not like that at all.

Today Raffaele is describing Rudy's impending work release as a travesty. Is there anyone who disagrees with that?

This whole thing is bizarre, and the most bizarre is that those who wrongly convict the two can't even agree on the details of the crime. But hey, they must have done it - because people are still able to invent scenarios that are internally inconsistent!

highlighting mine

Bill,

I think you meant to say "We'll just throw linguini at them until a few strands stick."
link to Paul Dooley quote here.

 

[Dan O.]

The second source is the transcripts. Giobbi's transcripts for example, just confirm what Mignini and Buratti said:

Would Buratti then be the driver you spoke of? Or is that Stefano Buratti the assistant chief who also got an award for pinning this crime on a couple of innocent students.

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>It happens that the TJMK folks have obtained a lot of interesting documentation including many payments to Frank Sfarzo.

It's interesting that they never reveal them. Maybe they are being safeguarded by Quennell's hundreds of lawyers.

 

[Diocletus]

Actually I am the person who backs up most precisely everything I say.
For example, did you notice I cited art. 350 § 7 when answring to LJ's claim that the SC found the spontaneous statement to be improper or non spontaneous?
It happens that the TJMK folks have obtained a lot of interesting documentation including many payments to Frank Sfarzo.

The Italian Supreme Court would have been better off citing the echr. They violated it by allowing a statement taken in the absence of counsel to be used to the prejudice of the defendant.

This Italian law is illegal as applied in this case.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Personally, I think that Steve Moore is going way too far in placing any alleged "Guede-as-police-informant" theory front and centre.

While I think that it certainly cannot be ruled out as a possibility, and while it certainly fits with certain key evidence regarding how Guede was treated in the days and weeks prior to the murder, there's currently no positive evidence that Guede was a Perugia police informant.

While this is true, the informer theory fits and explains some aspects of the way the case has been discussed and managed which are otherwise problematic.

The PMF sites have always very strongly pushed a "poor, misunderstood Rudy" line even back in the very early days when the only thing really clear from the English sources available was that Rudy Guede definitely did it, and Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were believed by the Italian police to have done it too.

Given the passionate hatred for Amanda Knox and her family expressed by the posters on those sites, their fondness for Rudy has always struck me as intensely weird. Even if you are locked in to the irrational belief that Knox was somehow involved, that really shouldn't lessen the culpability of Rudy Guede for having Meredith Kercher's actual blood on his actual hands, right? Yet poor, misunderstood Rudy is painted as the victim of Knox's manipulations (despite her poor Italian at the time), as having repented, as having redeemed himself by fingering Knox and Sollecito, as having a chance for a normal life after prison and so on.

It doesn't make any sense to me, unless someone has an agenda other than "remembering Meredith Kercher". The Perugian law enforcement community seem the likely source of that agenda. I don't see how the Kerchers stand to make a buck out of whitewashing Rudy Guede's reputation so it doesn't seem likely that it's them this time.

 

[lane99]

Dear Mr. Precision...

Actually I am the person who backs up most precisely everything I say...It happens that the TJMK folks have obtained a lot of interesting documentation including many payments to Frank Sfarzo.

Payments from whom?
And for how much?
And for what?
.
.

 

[Kaosium]

It's interesting that they never reveal them. Maybe they are being safeguarded by Quennell's hundreds of lawyers.

What's even more interesting is how that information could have been obtained. Frank Sfarzo lives in Mignini's jurisdiction and was being investigated by Mignini himself. We all know there were 'payments' to Frank Sforza being as he had a paypal thingy on his site, I know at least one poster here who claimed to have used it.

But again, what I'd be interested in knowing is how the bunnies got ahold of any specifics. That would be very interesting indeed...

 

[Mary_H]

highlighting mine

Bill,

I think you meant to say "We'll just throw linguini at them until a few strands stick."
link to Paul Dooley quote here.

One of my all-time favorite movies.

Here is a different cultural reference you made earlier....

Oscar Madison: Now kindly remove that spaghetti from my poker table.

[Felix laughs]

Oscar Madison: The hell's so funny?

Felix Ungar: It's not spaghetti, it's linguini.

[Oscar picks up the linguini and hurls it against the kitchen wall]

Oscar Madison: Now it's garbage.

 

[Mary_H]

What's even more interesting is how that information could have been obtained. Frank Sfarzo lives in Mignini's jurisdiction and was being investigated by Mignini himself. We all know there were 'payments' to Frank Sforza being as he had a paypal thingy on his site, I know at least one poster here who claimed to have used it.

But again, what I'd be interested in knowing is how the bunnies got ahold of any specifics. That would be very interesting indeed...

That is interesting. Frank has had to have several different PayPal accounts set up because they keep having problems and going down. He chalks it up to being in Italy, but maybe he should ask PayPal, which is, of course, guaranteed to be confidential. They might be interested in hearing about it.

 

[Diocletus]

He told me it was definitely not half an hour, he was fast asleep and dreaming in REM sleep, and he told me he went to bet quite later than that.

Oh, REM sleep . . . very impressive.

What does that slug dream about?

 

[Skind]

But again, what I'd be interested in knowing is how the bunnies got ahold of any specifics. That would be very interesting indeed...

Never put it past the TJMK bunnies to have made the payments themselves under various fabricated references.

 

[Dan O.]

Did you bother to read my posts before falsely calling me a liar?

No. That post was later in the thread. It didn't change the fact that you posted a lie. It simply established that you were posting somebody else's lie.

Also note that I didn't call you a liar. I said you were a master of the art (a compliment unless you are Italian and master being less than doctor and therefore less quallified than a bachelor in the rest of the world). I called your statement a lie which you eventually acknowledged.

 

[Machiavelli]

So in other words it was OK to sneak into a nursery school and steal a knife and put it in his bag while committing his crimes,

What 'crimes'?

but if he walked out the door with it he'd be in Big Trouble?

Definitely not 'Big', but there might be a little trouble.

That was never my point, Machiavelli, he could have seen to it that Rudy did more time regardless.

Your point is that the prosecution should have used suspicion of alleged crimes committed by Rudy to charge him with more. Your point is proven false, and my point is such alleged 'crimes' could not be used to add anything about the charges.

How many people did he charge in Florence, is that the same jurisdiction? I thought Perugia was in the Rome jurisdiction which is why it handles the political cases.

You really need to get a bit within boundaries of realiti on this one. The prosecution office of Perugia's jurisdiction coincides with almost the whole Province of Perugia, that is it's like 4000 square kilometer not more than that. The Rome ofice has a nifferent territory.
People in Florence can be involved in committing crimes that took place in Parugia, like the Narducci case (body discovered on the eastern side of the Trasimeno lake, that is Perugia jurisdiction). And cases can be logically connected together if the other jurisdiction agrees that is the about same deed. But these things are only for complex things involving organized crime.
Sleeping in a school and killing Meredith Kercher are not the same case.
Rome is in the Perugia jurisdiction for what concerns crimes committed by Magistrates (I mean Roman Magistrates).

They could have charged him with more

,

No they could not. Albeit I see you would like him to be charged of non-existent aggravating factors.

plus made sure he was charged for the rest of his recent crime spree which culminated in the death of Meredith Kercher.

This is idiotic. There isn't any charge such as "crime spree", besides there isn't any "crime spree culmnatin in". You are making up the law. In the Kercher case, he could only be charged with things directly connected to the murder of Meredith Kercher. There is no relation between sleeping in a school and the killing of Meredith Kercher. There is no relation between any other thing Guede did any other day and the Meredith Kercher murder: those alleged crimes are not part of the case.

I honestly don't know how they expect people to believe Italy allows murderers like Rudy Guede walk the streets in seven or so years without the prosecutor bungling badly or cutting a deal, especially if he'd also committed recent prosecutable offenses.

You don't need to believe, you need to know the law, to be used to it, and acknowledge what you see.

Mignini used mafia laws to confine Raffaele and Amanda in solitary

False. Art. 104 cpp is not a 'mafia law'.

and lied his ass off before Matteini to keep them imprisoned until their trial,

completely made up and unproven (for the sake of those accusing me of not substantiating claims).

he could have taken the gloves off with Rudy Guede but he let him off with a severe coddling instead. p)

Just keep "p)" demonstrating you are not serious. I kave already proven that you are wrong, you just don't want to acknowledge it.

Meredith's money, credit cards and phones were missing at the very least.

What does it mean "at the very least"? The truth is no money was proven to be missing, only the phones, and this is not theft but illicit appropriation (you can't steal from a dead person) and clearly taken by someone who did not intend to keep them, since the person immediately tossed them in a ravine.

Raffaele and Amanda were convicted of the phones in another travesty of justice, Rudy however ended up 'cleared' of all the theft charges.

Taking the phone is not a theft, because the owner is dead; and the intent was not to have the phones, because they were tossed. The taking of phone was part of a staging.

ETA: at least one drawer was open off the top of my head, and of course after opening a drawer someone can then close it.

They were not searched. Everything untouched, everyghint in order. Not searched.

Why didn't Mignini appeal that considering he'd appeal Raffaele and Amanda's 25 and 26 year sentences?

Maybe because Guede got the maximum, 30 years? Or maybe, did you want Guede to get 16 years and 6 months?

 

[Machiavelli]

No. That post was later in the thread. It didn't change the fact that you posted a lie. It simply established that you were posting somebody else's lie.

I didn't post any lie, neither mine nor anyone else's. I made a mistake, I corrected it in a following post, and you decided to call it a lie.

 

[Kestrel]

Candace Dempsey was using Frank Sfarzo (paid by the Knoxs) as her source, Kestrel. Dempsey got wrong the most basic facts and lied even on her understanding of language, even on her age.

A standard tactic from your side is to claim that anyone who supports Knox is being paid to do so. The smear is made without a shred of evidence and repeated all over the web in the hopes it will stick.

Ad hominum attacks, poisoning the well and argument ad nausium may impress the rubes on other forums. But not here on JREF.

 

[Dan O.]

ETA: at least one drawer was open off the top of my head, and of course after opening a drawer someone can then close it.

Rudy even admits to looking in Meredith's drawer which was found closed and Amanda's drawer though that one was probably in Laura's room. Then there is the juice he stole from the fridge.