Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[platonov]

I didn't realize you have a formidable legal background.


<long ago discredited tropes snipped>

Indeed.

I watched Bonanza in a bar last night with the sound* down but got the gist of it.
More than sufficient to deal with the groupie 'legal arguments' as put forward on this thread, I think.


*I couldnt hear a thing , I'm afraid I was very very drunk.

 

[Vibio]

vibio,

In Murder in Italy (pp. 122-127) Dempsey discusses the conversations (pl) that were recorded on 4 November at the Questura. Follain discusses it on pp. 119-120, even giving the location of the hidden microphone. I have previously cited Nadeau's book. Three strikes and you are out of anyone's ballgame.

Yes Mignini in his interview with CNN speaks of the taped conversations in his office. in the questura.

He adds "But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else."

 

[Diocletus]

Due to beaurocracy rules and possibility of requests, that would likely force the state to transcript many of them.

Yah think?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

the mop

I could be wrong, but I don't think that they were outside with the mop. That is just lore IIUC. Besides testing negative, the mop is also well known for showing off Stefanoni's gift wrapping skills.

 

[Bill Williams]

As I already said, police don't record summary information of informants as a praxis, for several reasons, most important for obvious financial reasons. Due to beaurocracy rules and possibility of requests, that would likely force the state to transcript many of them.

You said that Knox wanted to make a statement.

Mignini's CNN interview has him initiating the idea of a statement, that she can make, and he'll act as if only a notary.

You still have not answered. Is Mignini lying or are you lying?

 

[RoseMontague]

Whoops, according to Bill who knows way more, yes to the cleaning stuff. My bad.

The mop had been returned to the cottage from Raffaele's apartment where that had cleaned the floor from the busted pipe. They did not have it in hand when the cops arrived which was the lie in the early news story.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

my advice with respect to the secretly taped conversations

Yes Mignini in his interview with CNN speaks of the taped conversations in his office.

He adds "But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else."

vibio,

None of the conversations described in my citations were in Mignini's office; therefore, your comment above is irrelevant. Follain even provides the name of the officer who ordered the clandestine recordings. I suggest you read the cites and think about what they mean before digging yourself into a deeper hole on this issue. JMO.

 

[Machiavelli]

I just can't understand how you believe what took place in that interrogation room could be considered lies. How can you be so well read on the topic and believe what happened in that room was appropriate.

I believe that all what happened in the interrogation room was appropriate because I have no reason to believe otherwise. But this is not the relevant point.
The point is that when I talk about Knox's lies, I am not thinking about what she said inside that interrogation room, I am thinking about what she said outside the room, before and after the interrogation and statement. I never considered knox lies as something confined inside the interrogation. This is the main point. To me, things like the hand written note and the Dec. 17. interrogations, or her Nov. 4. e-mail, are more incriminating than the spontneous statement.

 

[platonov]

The Conspiracy Files

Well well well.

I see S Moore the FBI guy has gone public on US TV with the CT I addressed here.
That the Supreme court is in on the conspiracy [ & RG was a police informant ]

Forget the Pentagon Papers, Snowden, wikileaks, the Magna Carta, Lady Diana, Lord Nelson .... even Maggie Thatcher will sit up when she hears this one.
Now that the american public is appraised of the situation no way can AK be extradited.
In fact I'm surprised the missiles aren't already launched, NATO ally or not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This is even better than LJ's argument that Italy will have to leave the ECHR or something.

 

[RandyN]

The ink is barely dry on Nencini's wrongful conviction of Sollecito and Knox, and already some sort of review panel has ruled unanimously to investigate Nencini's post-conviction comments in the press.

http://www.rainews.it/dl/rainews/articoli/Meredith-Commissione-del-Csm-chiede-l-apertura-di-una-pratica-sul-giudice-Nencini-35617ebf-ab57-4db3-9abc-64b0ed43b34c.html

A very bad Google-translate:



In short Nencini admitted he committed the offence, but lacked intent.

I wonder...is Nencini related to that captain guy who tripped and fell into a life boat? They sound like brothers...close cousins anyway.

No worries ...this is Italy after all. Watch this get swept quickly under some judicial rug.

 

[RoseMontague]

My post was ambiguous. Do you have the Cassazione decision I referred to? The one from 2008 on admissibility? I know Hans at IIP has tried to find it.

I believe so yes, it was mistakenly posted as a Rudy doc as it dealt with protective detention appeals of all three. I will post it shortly.

 

[acbytesla]

or a Bronco to a football game!

Peyton Manning says "ouch"!!!

 

[acbytesla]

Do people think the interviews were recorded and then destroyed?

I do. I can't imagine that they didn't record them. I think they are embarrassed and know that they would be in a heap of trouble if the actual recording became public. So it disappeared,

 

[RoseMontague]

I think this is the one you were referring to anglo...

 

[RoseMontague]

Now that the american public is appraised of the situation no way can AK be extradited.

Yes, I agree.

 

[anglolawyer]

As I already said, police don't record summary information of informants as a praxis, for several reasons, most important for obvious financial reasons. Due to beaurocracy rules and possibility of requests, that would likely force the state to transcript many of them.

Not even when they gave been secretly recording them in the waiting room? Lol. Were they informants or suspects? It's Monday so I guess you are sticking with informants today. Tomorrow is Tuesday when they can be suspects again.

Remind me what all those cops were doing working a night shift? Also, I asked your source for saying Mig showed up at 2.00 a.m. Who told you that?

 

[Grinder]

Whoops, according to Bill who knows way more, yes to the cleaning stuff. My bad.

No you were right. They were not found with any cleaning equipment as they waited. The mop and bucket were not where they were waiting outside.

 

[acbytesla]

You said that Knox wanted to make a statement.

Mignini's CNN interview has him initiating the idea of a statement, that she can make, and he'll act as if only a notary.

You still have not answered. Is Mignini lying or are you lying?

I mean really, if Amanda wants to make a statement. Why not do it in her voice? Especially when you consider that there is a huge translation issue. This is the elephant in the room that everyone seems to forget.

Amanda barely speaks Italian, and my impression is that there so called translator, isn't actually that fluent in English. What's unfathomable is why so many people don't take this into account. Seriously, people "mis-communicate with each other all the time when speaking the same language, imagine the difficulty when two languages are involved when no one is fluent in the others language?

Frankly, I'm thoroughly convinced that 80 percent of the problem with this case is exactly that.

Amanda is constantly being questioned in a language that she barely speaks and understands. She is trying hard to be cooperative and she just doesn't come off well. It just goes to show you that if you get in trouble in a foreign country, you keep your mouth shut except to ask for a lawyer and someone from the US Consulate.

 

[Grinder]

Yes Mignini in his interview with CNN speaks of the taped conversations in his office. in the questura.

He adds "But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else."

What is the Questura? You think the police never record an interview? Do you think they have someone transcribing what is being said? how do you think the statement she made was compiled and written by the police?

 

[GreyFox]

This an article from Sky News.

Sky News view on extradition

• Legal Tussles Between Italy And US
Updated: 2:03pm UK, Friday 31 January 2014
By Sky News US Team

Amanda Knox risks extradition to Italy after her conviction for the murder of Meredith Kercher.

Before her, other legal disputes involving US citizens accused of crimes in Italy have made headlines - and occasionally irked relations between the two allies.

These are some of the most high-profile cases:

:: In 1998, a US Marine jet sliced a cable supporting a gondola at a ski resort in the Italian Alps, killing 20 people. The jet was flying fast and low.

Many Italians wanted the pilot and crew tried in Italy, though Nato rules gave jurisdiction to the US military.

The pilot faced a court martial in the US and was acquitted of negligent homicide charges, outraging Italians.

• :: Twenty-six CIA and US government employees were tried and convicted in absentia in Italy for the 2003 kidnapping of an Egyptian cleric suspected of recruiting terrorists in Milan.

It was a notorious case in the "extraordinary rendition" practice.

The defendants included former CIA base chief in Milan Robert Seldon Lady.

One of them, a US Air Force colonel, was pardoned last year on the grounds that it was unprecedented to try an officer of a Nato country for acts committed in Italy.

Seldon Lady has also requested a pardon.

:: Mario Lozano, an American soldier, was ordered to stand trial in Italy in connection with the shooting death of a top Italian intelligence agent, Nicola Calipari, in Iraq in 2005.

• Mr Calipari was hailed as a hero in his home country as he had just secured the release of an Italian journalist who had been kidnapped in Baghdad.

Mr Lozano shot at the car carrying Mr Calipari and the journalist, saying the vehicle had failed to slow down or to respond to warning shots.

The circumstances were disputed and the case soured relations between Italy and the US.
His trial in absentia opened in Rome, but then a higher court ruled Italy had no jurisdiction.

Perfect ! Thanks Coulsdon .

If your new and looking for a starting point to this case, start with the post above. Before the murder even took place their was resentment towards the United States government for not handing over those involved listed above.
That resentment still lingers.

I would have to think there is enough occurrences listed above to stir a nation to turn a blind eye on a pair of innocent kids. Which is why you constantly here the ... we don't know what exactly they did but they were involved somehow.