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Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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I'm more of a lurker on this topic... But it's amazing how little substance almost all of the proguilt posters add... Their whole argument usually revolves around character assassination.... and almost nothing else.
 
acbytesla said:
No, it might not be a hater but definitely a publicity hound.
Would you really expect a guard to know a prisoner all that well? Did she have her eyes on Amanda 24x7 with maybe hundreds of other prisoners to watch over at the same time?

Seriously? Why don't you ask the priest that she became friends with at Campanne or the prisoner from South America that she became good friends with?

This is more demonizing press to justify such a horrible persecution.
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I wonder how much that silly old bat got paid for her story?
 
Vibio said:
All of those terms pale in comparison to what she actually now is: a convicted murderer
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And yet she is at home to watch her beloved Seahawks in the superbowl.

Funny how when she was aquitted we hear that the process is not completed. Verdict not final. Best 3 out of 5 scenario.

Now she's back to being a convicted murderer. Wanna go 4 out of 7 ? The italian court system is so screwed up even you cant say what the outcome will eventually be. We're still years away.

Do you really think the state department will play ball with Mignini and these nuts ? Politics in America arent the same as the Biased Italian court system. They will take a deep look at the lack of evidence and then decide how it will look for Knox to be taken screaming and kicking knowing she's innocent. IMO

My bet... Public opinion will matter. Not from abroad. Voters / Politics...need I say more.

Again... She's home in Seatle where she will stay. With a senator backing her.

Rafs the real victim here. Made some stupid mistakes to get in this situation. Still making them by staying. Sighhh

The Germans werent much on giving jews a free pass. No more than Italians will be on giving Raf one.
 
Grinder said:
Since it could make quite a difference, would you provide something besides assurances of your knowledge?

It may well transpire that it is all done by Federal judges but that doesn't seem to be a requirement of the system.
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9-15.700

Foreign Extradition Requests

Foreign requests for extradition of fugitives from the United States are ordinarily submitted by the embassy of the country making the request to the Department of State, which reviews and forwards them to the Criminal Division's Office of International Affairs (OIA). The requests are of two types: formal requisitions supported by all documents required under the applicable treaty, or requests for provisional arrest. (Requests for provisional arrest may be received directly by the Department of Justice if the treaty permits. See USAM 9-15.230 for an explanation of provisional arrest.)
When OIA received a foreign extradition request, in summary, the following occurs:
OIA reviews both types of requests for sufficiency and forwards appropriate ones to the district.
The Assistant United States Attorney assigned to the case obtains a warrant and the fugitive is arrested and brought before the magistrate judge or the district judge.
The government opposes bond in extradition cases.
A hearing under 18 U.S.C. § 3184 (Federal law is adjudicated in a Federal courthouse) is scheduled to determine whether the fugitive is extraditable. If the court finds the fugitive to be extraditable, it enters an order of extraditability and certifies the record to the Secretary of State, who decides whether to surrender the fugitive to the requesting government. In some cases a fugitive may waive the hearing process.
OIA notifies the foreign government and arranges for the transfer of the fugitive to the agents appointed by the requesting country to receive him or her. Although the order following the extradition hearing is not appealable (by either the fugitive or the government), the fugitive may petition for a writ of habeas corpus as soon as the order is issued. The district court's decision on the writ is subject to appeal, and the extradition may be stayed if the court so orders.
Satisfied??
 
Another procedural question: Could the Italian Supreme Court send the case back to the first level for a new trial (not another appeal)? If so, could it rule that any particular evidence or testimony from the first trial was improper and could not be presented at a new trial?
 
Caper said:
I'm more of a lurker on this topic... But it's amazing how little substance almost all of the proguilt posters add... Their whole argument usually revolves around character assassination.... and almost nothing else.
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Welcome to our world. Machiavelli is a bit of an exception. And even he resists actually talking much about the evidence in the crime. He is however seeming knowledgeable about the byzantine nature of the Italian legal procedures.

BTW, I was a lurker for months. So I know where you are at. As I said earlier, welcome.
 
pilot padron said:
'She is the Ice Maiden': Amanda Knox has reinvented herself as a teary American TV star but she was cold and unemotional when in an Italian jail, says prison guard

Angela Antonietti - a favourite guard of Knox's at Capanne prison, Perugia
Claims her charge never cried or showed remorse during her time inside
Would 'sing and dance around cell' in day, and 'sleep like a baby' at night
Amanda Knox made a defiant appearance on ABC's Good Morning America
Refused to return to Italy after being found guilty again of murder
Could face detention in US federal prison while contesting extradition
Spoke of her shock at the verdict and her fears for Raffaele Sollecito

By Amanda Williams

PUBLISHED: 07:30 EST, 1 February 2014 | UPDATED: 12:40 EST, 1 February 2014



Amanda Knox is a brilliant actress and a secret 'Ice Maiden' who has reinvented herself as a warm compassionate human being, according to a prison guard who watched over her in jail.

Angela Antonietti, a favourite guard of Knox's at Capanne prison, near Perugia, has revealed that her charge never cried or showed remorse during her time inside.

Hours after an Italian court convicted her for a second time of killing British student Meredith Kercher in 2007, the 26-year-old made an emotional – but defiant – U.S. TV appearance insisting her innocence.

But Ms Antonietti has labeled her tears nothing more than an act and said Knox 'never, ever' talked of her 'friend', Miss Kercher.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ian-jail-says-prison-guard.html#ixzz2s65xX4aO




Oh, but of course... this must be just another "Hater":rolleyes:
And of course, we cannot ever believe anything that the Daily Mail says about the case.

But at least it is refreshing to be able read something from the other side on this Forum.

And even more refreshing to be able to discount yet from another close source the dismal delusional drumbeat here about what great friends Knox and Meredith always were
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The sleep of the innocent?
 
Bob001 said:
Another procedural question: Could the Italian Supreme Court send the case back to the first level for a new trial (not another appeal)? If so, could it rule that any particular evidence or testimony from the first trial was improper and could not be presented at a new trial?
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I think they are very much like the US Supreme Court in that they can do pretty much what they please. That said, I don't expect it. If you read their motivation for overturning the Hellman decision, it is clear that they demanded a guilty verdict from the Florence court.
 
acbytesla said:
I think they are very much like the US Supreme Court in that they can do pretty much what they please. That said, I don't expect it. If you read their motivation for overturning the Hellman decision, it is clear that they demanded a guilty verdict from the Florence court.
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The Italian justice system was designed to uphold an authoritarian regime. Thus protecting the honor of the original prosecution team was the most important consideration. Keeping the actual murdrer off the streets and keeping innocents from being falsely punished was not a priority.

Perhaps someday the Italian justice system will change to fit Italy's status as a modern industrialized democracy. But as of today they are far from that standard.
 
Caper said:
I'm more of a lurker on this topic... But it's amazing how little substance almost all of the proguilt posters add... Their whole argument usually revolves around character assassination.... and almost nothing else.
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I have to say, in all honesty, that the kind of analysis I used to read from the PGP sites compared to the reasoning on this site, was a major factor in my turning from pro guilt to pro innocence. Important questions by posters on this site are just totally ignored with the exception of Machiavelli, who I hope will continue to post here (even though I don't feel (usually) convinced by his arguments). I do think that awkward questions by PGP posters are, by and large, addressed.

I do hope that PGP posters continue to post and to ask pertinent questions and make reasonable points because, apart from anything else it makes it a bit easier to understand the two guilty verdicts we have had.

I have to say I feel much more calm now that I no longer read PMF or TJMK, though I still will read their translations and appreciate those.

But fundamentally I feel that if A and R are guilty, it would be reasonably argued on this site above all, because I think many posters on JREF really do like winning arguments on their merits.
 
acbytesla said:
I think they are very much like the US Supreme Court in that they can do pretty much what they please. That said, I don't expect it. If you read their motivation for overturning the Hellman decision, it is clear that they demanded a guilty verdict from the Florence court.
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Please do not say that the Italian Supreme Court is like the us supreme court. It hurts my eyes to read that.

But I agree that they could do whatever.
 
Kestrel said:
The Italian justice system was designed to uphold an authoritarian regime. Thus protecting the honor of the original prosecution team was the most important consideration.
....
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The judges that issued the acquittal roundly criticized the Supreme Court for not upholding their decision and sending it back to a different court. Hellman says they violated the law.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...retry-Amanda-Knox-and-Raffaele-Sollecito.html
http://wrongfulconvictionnews.com/j...e-court-violated-the-law-when-ruling-on-case/
http://groundreport.com/judge-that-...ocent-in-2011-speaks-out-about-recent-ruling/
 
Diocletus said:
Please do not say that the Italian Supreme Court is like the us supreme court. It hurts my eyes to read that.

But I agree that they could do whatever.
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I understand.

But obviously my comparison was limited to the one point.
 
This is from the DM article “But if Italy makes an extradition request, Knox will be forced to remain in SeaTac detention centre, a 10 minutes' drive from her family home in Seattle, while the US government contests it.”
Is the above correct?
 
Kaosium said:
This process was a farce, and the verdict is a disgrace. The facts show that Amanda and Raffaele are innocent, and Guede committed the murder on his own.[/hilite] The truth will not change, and the authorities will never salvage their credibility by denying it."
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Sadly I don't see how the Court of Cassation can do anything to salvage their credibility. If they affirm the guilty verdict, the Italian justice system will become a laughing stock for ignoring the mountain of reasonable doubt that exists in this case; but if they send it back down for another appeal they look ridiculous. It's a no win situation for them.
 
Caper said:
I'm more of a lurker on this topic... But it's amazing how little substance almost all of the proguilt posters add... Their whole argument usually revolves around character assassination.... and almost nothing else.
Click to expand...

This is a good point. Having to resort to character assassination rather than on the evidence is a clear sign the case against Amanda was weak.
 
CoulsdonUK said:
This is from the DM article “But if Italy makes an extradition request, Knox will be forced to remain in SeaTac detention centre, a 10 minutes' drive from her family home in Seattle, while the US government contests it.”
Is the above correct?
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I think there are a lot of variables. It starts with the US State Department, then it goes to the The Office of International Affairs. Which then processes the paper work. The Government as a matter of procedure opposes all bond of Foreign extradition. But that doesn't mean that the US District Judge can't award bond and release Amanda.

The Seatac detention center is the local "Federal Detention center" which is fairly close to West Seattle. I've actually been there. I visited a Federal prisoner there once. If she is to be incarcerated while awaiting the result of the appeal hearing, I believe that is the most likely place.
 
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