Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[HumanityBlues]

This is so true, but this is about extradition and a treaty with another country and the treaty specifically puts the State Department which is in the Executive Branch in charge of this.

Extradition of Amanda Knox is both a very very complicated issue with a limited amount of case law. It involves politics and it also involves the judiciary. The Ninth Circuit and the Supreme Court could easily prevent the extradition of Amanda and so can the President. In fact the President can stop the extradition of Amanda Knox for no reason if he pleases. He doesn't have to prove anything.

However the Ninth Circuit court could prevent extradition for some reason, probable cause, double jeopardy and they can be reversed by the US Supreme Court.

The law on this doesn't support Amanda Knox's case as well as I would hope, but there is enough fog in the case that anything goes. It all depends on the 9th Circuit Court judge in Seattle. Double jeopardy, the facts of the case, probable cause and even due process may be reasons to reject extradition.

It will actually be a district court judge, not a ninth circuit court of appeals judge. Also, you can't necessarily guarantee that either as she could be residing or staying in another state when the extradition request comes in. If that was the case, it wouldn't necessarily be a court in Washington deciding.

 

[Machiavelli]

I have a feeling that US Courts will find a way to deny extradition.
As for the Italian Justice system, it stinks on ice.
The only way they finally got convictions against the Mafia lords in Sicily was to basically set up a special court system outside the normal Italian court system because the regular court system was just too corrupt.

What an idiocy. The mafia is tried by the same normal court system. Special court systems can't exist under Italian constitution.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Gee. Maybe he could use his bully pulpit to say something like: I think the guy who killed and raped by sister should go to jail for more then 6 years.

That would be more useful than his promotion of an intentional miscarriage of justice.

Really how would that change anything?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

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I guess the name Maresca means nothing to you?

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I am pretty sure he knows Maresca, so what? He has a different perspective to his sister murder than you.

 

[Machiavelli]

Toto, the motivations report will be interesting reading but I'm not sure it will clear up why no DNA or prints of the two defendants were found in the murder room while Rudy's DNA was found on the victim's clothes, purse, and in her vagina (not the result of a consensual act). (...)

In minimal amount (as for Stefanoni's testimony at the preliminary hearing), and some of the samples were of just Guede's Y-haplotype (implies "compatible", not identfying that specific individual for sure).

 

[Grinder]

I think rather than culture there is also a problem with precise knowledge of details. There isn't a single statement of Curatolo about costumes, and there is actually no evidence he got the buses wrong (there is just an unproven defence claim).

No, they were not ... I was on the bench, their
were on the low wall of the basketball court .
QUESTION - two of them were always there continuously ? ANSWER - Yes, until before midnight, I go away , I think so because they were there. QUESTION - So it's not that they are gone and returned , are always been there ?ANSWER - No , I am neither left nor returned , there were
sitting around talking to each other.

 

[AmyStrange]

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I am pretty sure he knows Maresca, so what? He has a different perspective to his sister murder than you.

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My perspective is that Rudy got off light. Is that what you mean by "different perspective"? If yes, than you are right,

d

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[Grinder]

Grinder, to be clear, I mostly agree with you. I also don't think a double jeopardy argument would actually work. That being said, it is still possible. I have researched it (I did post cases from other circuits/districts earlier) and neither the federal district court for the Western District of Washington nor the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit has ruled on this specific issue. There are really not many cases that address this kind of situation. There is at least room for argument. Again, not likely to win, but you can't guarantee it's an automatic loser of an argument.

Sure. I'm just responding to all the comments here that make it sound like DJ is a viable route. It does irritate me that there is an attitude that US citizens play by different rules. Could Amanda's case change extradition law? I suppose it could, but I wouldn't bet on it.

If you would post or PM the resources you use for this research I'd be interested.

We here do allow forms of double jeopardy and if the Italians had completed the three stages and then recharged her, then the DJ would stick.

 

[Bill Williams]

No. It is not that common, this only happened on some cases with extreme media exposure. It's clearly a kind of media effect. When you feel that your words have fallen into the spotlight (as it happened to Knox after her statement against Lumumba) and you know that your words are going to obtain wide resonance among public and be relevant to the case, writing may become an irresistible temptation.

Right, it was part of her their master plan. She was locked up and didn't have full access to the media. You think she was looking for attention while throwing caution to the wind. Idiotic.

Again... to newbies trying to make sense of this.

Consider conspiracy theories. Machiavelli (above) is giving voice to his own particular conspiracy theory, involving his own reasons why he thinks Amanda had planned this out all along.

Key to this conspiracy theory is how he believes Knox actually manipulated seasoned investigators, at interrogation, into falling for her "Lumumba story". Key also is Machiavelli's claim, upthread, that instead of being exhausted through lack of sleep and stress following the murder of her friend....

... Machiavelli says that she could "choose not to sleep," therefore was in a presence of mind to actually function enough to pull of the conspiracy... of naming Lumumba.... following the discovery on her phone of the "See you later" text....

Guilters (and now apparently the Italian courts) find it as somewhat factual that she pulled off this misdirection with malice aforethought.

Added to this is now a more detailed aspect of the conspiracy Knox was engaged in, so says Machiavelli....

"you know that your words are going to obtain wide resonance among public and be relevant to the case"​

Machiavelli is sure she "knows". All this while being held in detention. She's such a master conspirator here, that she can pull all this off from behind bars.

Next you'll hear about how Knox and her mother could talk in "mafia code".

You'll also hear about how experience with cooking especially doughy pizza-crush, makes one an expert on stomach contents.

 

[yimyammer]

4. Why The bathmat isn't constructed of a material that can leave a print clear and distinguishable enough to accurately assign to anyone much less enough to justify a conviction for murder looks more like Rudy's foot than Raf's.

Strikes me as more accurate

 

[Grinder]

In minimal amount (as for Stefanoni's testimony at the preliminary hearing), and some of the samples were of just Guede's Y-haplotype (implies "compatible", not identfying that specific individual for sure).

But when one has a bunch of compatibles that becomes osmatically a match, right?

 

[Machiavelli]

You will never get a cohesive explanation of the crime from the hate-mongers. (...)

What do you mean by "cohesive explanation"?
(Do crimes normally receive an "explanation"? Are judges required to "understand" the commission of a crime, or instead to assess evidence of a crime?)
And what do innocentisti offer? Rudy Guede breaks in through an illogical point of entry without leaving traces and without attempting to steal, kills Meredith and rapes a dying or dead victim (without leaving his bloody handprint traces on her body), washes his bare foot immersing it in bloody water without leaving traces of himself in the bathroom nor on the floor to get there than walks out with bloody shoes on. Just to start. This based on the fact that he is a thieve and slept in a nursery school in MIlan. Is this the starting of a "cohesive explanation"?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

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My perspective is that Rudy got off light. Is that what you mean by "different perspective"? If yes, than you are right,

d

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Guede opted for a fast track trial option, this automatically reduced his sentence by one third. In addition, the Italian penal system reduces a sentence for good behaviour and for example attending a college degree course. This is beyond yours or my control! Now do I believe this is lenient, YES. Can you or I do anything about the penal system of Italy, no. Oh I guess one could aimless whine on about it.

 

[Machiavelli]

But when one has a bunch of compatibles that becomes osmatically a match, right?

Well, yes, of course.

 

[RandyN]

Yeah, I don't think the case was made to convict Knox or Sollecito... I don't think they are guilty of murder. But the inconsistency of their stories, and Knox's blatant lie about Lumumba leave me with a queasy feeling that something about this is amiss.

I agree 100 % except only if you change out Knox with the police. See it was the police blatant lie about Lumumba. Knox could not say or write those things...they are in legalize Italian and she could barely order pizza yet. Had she had her legally required lawyer present I suppose these written statements would be different.

I have the same queasy feeling though. Something about this is seriously amiss. And there are hundreds of circumstantial pieces of evidence proving who caused and what exactly are these things that are amiss.

1.4 burned up hard drives
2.no interrogation recordings but 39 thousand wire tapped phone recordings
3.Police scientist lying in court about quantification size of sample 36b
4.Same police scientist in a different court lying about luminol footprints calling them from blood but then failing to reveal that she tested these with TMB also which revealed they were not from blood...
5.Prosecutor lying about control data sheets
6. Prosecutor attempting twice to sneek fake control data sheets into the case file.
7. Prosecutor presenting drug addicted professional witnesses and bums as super witness and then we find they admit to being high on heroin the nights in question.

I could list hundreds of these circumstantial evidences against a safe conviction and yet you wish to guess something might be amiss?. Or else listen to the clownish one or two line Ad hominem attacks here from posters who refuse or else simply can not state the case for guilt that fits the known facts.

The troubling thing is so many fools willing to ignore a clearly corrupt fact-less baseless prosecution but who will go on forever about something someone might have said in a diary (that is if the press got that part correct) since the diaries were not in the court records IIRC. Peggy might have claimed that but she is as stupid and wrong as Michael who claims to have bleach receipts but even after 6 years fails to reveal these receipts. These are the people and posters you are finding here in a mass return but without substantive evidence other than well the Italians must have it correct cuzzz..well just cuzzz.

These posters belong to Peggy and Michael...at the CT hate site PMF 1 and 2. Check them out...you will find the same names there...different sites because one stole the site from the other and well....no one cares.

They only care about Meredith. But sure go ahead read there and come back and explain the manifestation of the Meredith care and concern theme. Hint they dont care about Meredith, the truth, her family or the pain they suffer.

Scruts is just here to boost his posts numbers. His arguments are never thoughtful or serious. Just one liners mostly...the Rodney Dangerfield of JREF. Only thing missing is the funny part.

 

[Dan O.]

This does not address what I was saying. She remains detached from reality, not comprehending her situation, even now.

Her situation is that she is being railroaded by a corrupt prosecution and judiciary, her family has been nearly bankrupt by the cost of fighting this travesty and if she doesn't have a public following, this runaway train wreck will crush the rest of her life. She is not going to lie down and let it happen. This isn't your typical small court case where you save your argument for the judge.


.

 

[Machiavelli]

No, they were not ... I was on the bench, their
were on the low wall of the basketball court .
QUESTION - two of them were always there continuously ? ANSWER - Yes, until before midnight, I go away , I think so because they were there. QUESTION - So it's not that they are gone and returned , are always been there ?ANSWER - No , I am neither left nor returned , there were
sitting around talking to each other.

Has nothing to do with costumes or buses.

 

[Bill Williams]

No, that would have been crazy. Raffaele and Rudy started their writings because of the media attention on Knox's statement and on Sollecito's words admitting he had lied ("ho raccontato un sacco di cazzate") and his new version withdrawing her alibi.

How on earth could anyone know that?

According to Knox she was trying to recant what she knew was not true about Lumumba. Indeed, what she was forced to say about Lumumba, and the document she was forced to sign....

.... which if she'd been given her law-mandated lawyer, would have told her not to sign. She could not have possibly understood what she was signing, either because of it's legal significance, or the language barrier.

Remember translator/mediator Anna Donnino was busy trying to tell Knox why she was not remembering what the interrogators insist she was either not remembering, or deliberately withholding from them.

In short, Donnino was not a translator... she was actively inserting herself into this.

What you have is a complete misunderstanding from Raffaele, too. Too bad neither of us can know for sure, because the mandated transcripts/videotaping of these matters was not done. All it would have taken was the flick of a switch - Mignini's bleatings about "lack of funds" notwithstanding.

 

[Dan O.]

All Knox always wanted was to tell a story someone would believe. What she expressed from the very beginning was the need that "they" believed her. If not the police, someone else.
Bear in mind her e-mail home of Nov. 4. Bear in mind what she did. She sent this e-mail "for everyone" because she wanted people to listen to "her" story. She violated the police request of talking about her recollection of facts, they asked to do one thing and she did the opposite thing. She lied from the first line of her e-mail, as she asked the recipients to not talk about it because that could have jeopardized the investigation, and sent the letter to 25 people meaning she was doing exactly what she was asking other people not to do. Isn't that expressing a desire to talk to people about his version at the cost throwing caution to the wind? For what? If not to have her story and her words get through to others?

More crap Machiavelli. Amanda wasn't writing her story. She was repeating the summary of the interrogations that she went through. It's fortunate for us that Amanda is so open. Otherwise we wouldn't have any information about what was going on in those interrogations.

Which of those 25 people were relavent for the prosecution? Compare that to for instance the short fat perp selling photos of the crime sceen to the media.

BTW, Who is that perp? Why was he given access to the crime scene? Why hasn't he been prosecuted?

 

[AmyStrange]

Whine and cheese are great together...

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Guede opted for a fast track trial option, this automatically reduced his sentence by one third. In addition, the Italian penal system reduces a sentence for good behaviour and for example attending a college degree course. This is beyond yours or my control! Now do I believe this is lenient, YES. Can you or I do anything about the penal system of Italy, no. Oh I guess one could aimless whine on about it.

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You can call it whining if you want, but I have a "different perspective" about it and that is that I believe in questioning everything, especially things that seem out of whack, and not to mention Rudy's lenient punishment seems out of whack to me, but that is just my opinion. I hope we're stilled allowed to do that here.

Your mileage may vary depending on your current perspective on things.

I'm not complaining about you specifically C, you seem to be leaning more towards guilt, but you still have questions and you are not shy about expressing them, plus you get to the point. No beatin' around the bush.

Thank you for all of that,

d

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