Bart Ehrman on the Historical Jesus

[dejudge]

If you're referring to dejudge, join the club. I put him (her? it?) on ignore because of his (her, it's) consummate rudeness. Read over dejudge's posts on this thread and you will find nothing but contempt poured out on anyone who doesn't agree 100% with everything dejudge thinks. I suggest you join me in putting dejudge on ignore.

It is virtually impossible for you to have ignored what I post. You read what I post when others respond to me.

"Ignore" is a complete waste of time.

 

[dafydd]

"Ignore" is a complete waste of time.

It's gesture, a moral victory.

 

[dejudge]

I would remind you that these are the same people who believe that the earth is 6,000 or so years old and that God created the universe in six days. I think you are grossly underestimating the capacity of these people to rationalize things if you think, even for one moment, that showing Jesus to be a fictional construct would in any way affect mainstream Christianity.

What you say is not logical because Christians de-convert. As soon as it is realized that NT was really a compilation of forgeries and fiction then the Christian religion will collapse just like belief in other Myths collapsed in the 4th century.

In any event, History has shown that mankind has not worshiped the same Myth Gods all time.

The next Myth to be discarded by mankind is Jesus of Nazareth.

Mankind no longer need Myth Gods and Sons of Gods who cannot help and have never helped the development of the human race.

Soon Jesus of Nazareth would be remembered like Adam the first Myth man and Romulus the myth founder of Rome.

 

[dejudge]

I am neither an HJ'er or a JC'er. It's just another old story to me.

Are you the same dafydd who voted that Jesus was a figure of history?

 

[Brainache]

What you say is not logical because Christians de-convert. As soon as it is realized that NT was really a compilation of forgeries and fiction then the Christian religion will collapse just like belief in other Myths collapsed in the 4th century.

So it must have happened a couple of hundred years ago then. Because that was when secular Scholars first started looking, and that was one of the first conclusions.

Yet Christianity persists.

In any event, History has shown that mankind has not worshiped the same Myth Gods all time.

The next Myth to be discarded by mankind is Jesus of Nazareth.

Mankind no longer need Myth Gods and Sons of Gods who cannot help and have never helped the development of the human race.

Soon Jesus of Nazareth would be remembered like Adam the first Myth man and Romulus the myth founder of Rome.

But you realise that people who study this subject for a living think your ideas are stupid.

What makes you think they will agree with ideas they know to be stupid?

 

[dejudge]

What makes you think they will agree with ideas they know to be stupid?

You imply that Richard Carrier, an historian, is stupid to argue that Jesus was a figure of mythology.

 

[Foster Zygote]

You imply that Richard Carrier, an historian, is stupid to argue that Jesus was a figure of mythology.

No, no. He stated that historians think your ideas are stupid. In fact, I'll bet Richard Carrier would agree with them.

 

[dejudge]

No, no. He stated that historians think your ideas are stupid. In fact, I'll bet Richard Carrier would agree with them.

Are you stupid enough to bet?

According to Richard Carrier Bart Ehrman's "Did Jesus Exist?" is a failure of facts and logic and I fully agree with him.

Put your money down.

 

[Brainache]

You imply that Richard Carrier, an historian, is stupid to argue that Jesus was a figure of mythology.

But we are not talking about Richard Carrier here. I was talking about YOUR arguments, not his.

I don't agree with Carrier because I can't see any evidence for what he is asserting.

I think your arguments are stupid because they are internally inconsistent, don't align with what is already known and could only be made by someone profoundly ignorant of the Historical Method.

So, two quite different things there.

 

[Foster Zygote]

What you say is not logical because Christians de-convert. As soon as it is realized that NT was really a compilation of forgeries and fiction then the Christian religion will collapse just like belief in other Myths collapsed in the 4th century.

In any event, History has shown that mankind has not worshiped the same Myth Gods all time.

The next Myth to be discarded by mankind is Jesus of Nazareth.

Mankind no longer need Myth Gods and Sons of Gods who cannot help and have never helped the development of the human race.

Soon Jesus of Nazareth would be remembered like Adam the first Myth man and Romulus the myth founder of Rome.

Yep. Those religious believers are just so rational. I mean, look how many Christians abandoned biblical literalism once it was shown that the Earth is some 4.5 billion years old and that we, and every other form of life, evolved from a common ancestor. Yep. Once you prove that Jesus never existed, all the Christians will just say, "Oops! Our bad" and become rationally minded secular humanists. That just leaves the Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Pagans, Wiccans, Sikhs, Jainists, folk religions, animists...

 

[dejudge]

But we are not talking about Richard Carrier here. I was talking about YOUR arguments, not his.

You don't know what you are talking about.

I don't agree with Carrier because I can't see any evidence for what he is asserting.

Tell us who you agree with so that we can see if the evidence agrees with what is asserted?

Do you agree with Bart Ehrman?

Do you agree with Robert Eiseman?

I think your arguments are stupid because they are internally inconsistent, don't align with what is already known and could only be made by someone profoundly ignorant of the Historical Method.

Well, I think your arguments are illogical and baseless.
You are profoundly ignorant of any evidence for an HJ.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Are you stupid enough to bet?

According to Richard Carrier Bart Ehrman's "Did Jesus Exist?" is a failure of facts and logic and I fully agree with him.

Put your money down.

Sure. Show me one argument from Carrier that is the same as any of the arguments that you have presented here.


By the way, I was right about you, yes? You used to be a Christian, but had a very emotional falling out with your faith and this is how you are dealing with it?

 

[dejudge]

Yep. Those religious believers are just so rational. I mean, look how many Christians abandoned biblical literalism once it was shown that the Earth is some 4.5 billion years old and that we, and every other form of life, evolved from a common ancestor. Yep. Once you prove that Jesus never existed, all the Christians will just say, "Oops! Our bad" and become rationally minded secular humanists. That just leaves the Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Pagans, Wiccans, Sikhs, Jainists, folk religions, animists...

You seem not to understand that mankind has never worshiped the same Gods and Sons of Gods.

It is inevitable that Jesus will become just like Adam or Rumulus.

Mankind do not need Myths anymore for Salvation.

Trying to salvage a dead obscure Jesus from admitted fiction and implausibility is futile.

Christians worshiped a figure of Faith and not a figure of history.

The figure of Faith has collasped and there is no history.

The Christian Faith is unsustainable.

HJers can only say their Jesus is plausible--that is all.

 

[Foster Zygote]

You seem not to understand that mankind has never worshiped the same Gods and Sons of Gods.

It is inevitable that Jesus will become just like Adam or Rumulus.

Mankind do not need Myths anymore for Salvation.

Trying to salvage a dead obscure Jesus from admitted fiction and implausibility is futile.

Christians worshiped a figure of Faith and not a figure of history.

The figure of Faith has collasped and there is no history.

The Christian Faith is unsustainable.

HJers can only say their Jesus is plausible--that is all.

And you seem not to understand that superstitious beliefs evolve, and that when they are abandoned, it is usually because people have moved on to some other superstition. If Christians aren't deterred by the unbiased scholarly conclusion that Jesus was a deluded religious crank who's megalomania led him to a messy demise, like Jim Jones or Vernon Wayne Howell, and that he bore virtually no resemblance to the Jesus that Christians worship, then what makes you think that proof that Jesus never existed is going to sway them? We have, literally, mountains of evidence to support the theory of evolution by natural selection, yet there are still many millions of people who insist that the Earth is only around 6000 years old and that Adam and Eve were the first humans. You may have given up your old faith, but your thinking is still the same.

 

[dejudge]

And you seem not to understand that superstitious beliefs evolve, and that when they are abandoned, it is usually because people have moved on to some other superstition.

Your statement is highly illogical. You do not even understand that there are atheists who were once believers.

 

[Brainache]

Your statement is highly illogical. You do not even understand that there are atheists who were once believers.

Does the phrase "highly illogical" have some special meaning for you? Because it seems to me that you use it differently to everyone else.

There was nothing illogical in what Foster said.

The fact that some Atheists were once believers, doesn't change the fact that most religious people hold their beliefs in spite of evidence, not because of it.

 

[dejudge]

Does the phrase "highly illogical" have some special meaning for you? Because it seems to me that you use it differently to everyone else.

There was nothing illogical in what Foster said.

The fact that some Atheists were once believers, doesn't change the fact that most religious people hold their beliefs in spite of evidence, not because of it.

You are talking to the wrong guy.

Tell your story to Foster Zygote because he seems to think that "once a Christian always a superstitious believer".

It is simply a fallacy that people who abandon a superstitious belief will move on to a next one.

Many Atheists are evidence against Foster Zygote's fallacy.

 

[Brainache]

You are talking to the wrong guy.

Tell your story to Foster Zygote because he seems to think that "once a Christian always a superstitious believer".

It is simply a fallacy that people who abandon a superstitious belief will move on to a next one.

Many Atheists are evidence against Foster Zygote's fallacy.

Many Atheists?

How many?

Do you want to play the Numbers Game now?

 

[dejudge]

You are talking to the wrong guy.

Tell your story to Foster Zygote because he seems to think that "once a Christian always a superstitious believer".

It is simply a fallacy that people who abandon a superstitious belief will move on to a next one.

Many Atheists are evidence against Foster Zygote's fallacy.

Many Atheists?

How many?

Do you want to play the Numbers Game now?

You don't even understand what you are saying. People who play the Numbers Game use specific words or phrases like "most", "the majority" , "the vast majority" and "consensus".

I did not use these words or phrases:

1. "the majority of atheists"

2. "the vast majority of atheists"

2. "most atheists"

3. "the consensus of atheists"

You play the Numbers Game a lot but you can't win.

 

[Brainache]

You don't even understand what you are saying. People who play the Numbers Game use specific words or phrases like "most", "the majority" , "the vast majority" and "consensus".

I did not use these words or phrases:

1. "the majority of atheists"

2. "the vast majority of atheists"

2. "most atheists"

3. "the consensus of atheists"

You play the Numbers Game a lot but you can't win.

It isn't a case of "winning", I'm just amused by the fact that these arguments of yours are so hilariously moronic.

Keep it up!