• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

Status
Not open for further replies.
Londonjohn
So in fact the made-up "guilty" version of the report contained a number of rather specific "facts" (which were of course pure inventions based merely on Pisa's speculation of what might have happened had there been guilty verdicts), some extremely specific reported reactions (ditto), and some purported direct quotes that went well beyond generalisations.
Click to expand...

Amanda Knox looked stunned this evening after she dramatically lost her prison appeal against her murder conviction
Quote:
Prosecutors were delighted with the verdict and said that "justice has been done" although they said on a "human factor it was sad two young people would be spending years in jail".
Quote:
As Knox realized the enormity of what judge Hellman was saying she sank into her chair sobbing uncontrollably while her family and friends hugged each other in tears. A few feet away Meredith’s mother Arline, her sister Stephanie and brother Lyle, who had flown in especially for the verdict remained expressionless, staring straight ahead, glancing over just once at the distraught Knox family.
Quote:
Following the verdict Knox and Sollecito were taken out of court escorted by prison guards and into a waiting van which took her back to her cell at Capanne jail near Perugia and him to Terni jail, 60 miles away.​

Really facts like the mom slumped, the prosecution was happy and Lyle didn't react?

Banal filler that would have been basically correct had the verdict gone the other way. Nothing that would have been of any consequence had the verdict been guilty.

Perhaps you missed the beginning of this:

Originally Posted by Kaosium
As you'll recall, the article specifically sourced the pictures to "Italian police."

Can you think of a reason why the Daily Mail would make a gross error and wrongly attribute the photos to police if they were not? Especially considering the possibility of sanction from those police and the prosecutor who did indeed file charges against journalists whose articles displeased him?​


Acbytesla -
Can you think of a reason the same publication would release a totally false story the last time a verdict was issued?​

Whereas Kaosium's point was about something very significant and accurate AC's was over-the-top (totally false) and of very little significance in that or this trial. The bloody bathroom picture has influenced the perception of many. Pisa's story and the made-up quotes never would have had any influence even if it had been run after a guilty verdict.


Had the Mail prepared a "guilty" version that was much more anodyne and non-specific (sticking to an announcement of a guilty verdict, and stating what would probably happen from then on), that would have been acceptable and prudent. But Pisa's invention went well above and beyond that. And unfortunately for him and for the Mail, this level of mendacity was cruelly exposed when someone pressed the wrong button at the Mail Online desk.
Click to expand...

His banal quotes hardly went well above anything. Yes, the mistake showed how the English sausage is made.
 
Last edited:
codyjuneau said:
.
Yeah, you are right Dan, I got them mixed up.

I think the guy in the pic is actually the one squatting on the left looking at the rug at 00:12 of the 20110804_113759_Meredith_sopralluogo_Polizia_Scientifica_7_2.mp4 video.

The mask and the collar of his undergarment and his eyebrows are quite distinctive. They both wear glasses. The guy in the pic removes them and puts them on a lot.
.
Click to expand...

No. Flashlight man has much lighter eyebrows and the eyeglass prescriptions are totally different.

Here is camera boy (left) and flashlight man (right) side by side


ETA: Oops, you were referring to a different video and not camera man squatting and looking at the blue rug where the clasp was found in this video. Have you got a link to your video?
 

Attachments

  • camera boy and flashlight man.jpg
    camera boy and flashlight man.jpg
    15.3 KB · Views: 1
Last edited:
Diocletus said:
Dude needs to man up and figure it out for himself instead of trying to pass everything off to his hired gun.
Click to expand...
That’s a shock!

Murder victim’s brother believes in prosecution’s case. Defendant’s family believe in their innocence; go figure!
 
Amanda Knox trial: Verdict may come at 2 p.m.

-

[2 p.m. ET, 1700 GMT]

http://www.freep.com/article/20140130/NEWS07/301300055/Amanda-Knox-trial-New-appeal-verdicts-due

"An Italian court may announce Thursday verdicts in the trial of American Amanda Knox and her former Italian boyfriend, who have been both acquitted and found guilty in the death of a British woman.

"A verdict was not expected until 8 p.m. local time at the earliest, or 2 p.m. ET.

"The first two trials produced flip-flop verdicts of guilty then innocent for Knox and her former Italian boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, in the 2007 death of Meredeth Kercher... "

-
 
CoulsdonUK said:
That’s a shock!

Murder victim’s brother believes in prosecution’s case. Defendant’s family believe in their innocence; go figure!
Click to expand...

Not really. Victim's brother said that his lawyer told him that the defendant is guilty. Hence, my remark.
 
CoulsdonUK said:
That’s a shock!

Murder victim’s brother believes in prosecution’s case. Defendant’s family believe in their innocence; go figure!
Click to expand...


I don't think that this addresses Diocletus' point properly.

Now, I agree that there's a logical reason why family/friends of a defendant might have blind belief in the defendant's non-guilt or innocence. It's obvious to understand why that's the case. Therefore, there's clearly an argument to be made that family/friends of a defendant may hold on to such a belief, even if it flies in the face of evidence that suggests guilt.

On the other hand, however, what is the motivation for the family/friends of a murder victim to hold on to a belief in the guilt of a defendant, if evidence tends to suggest otherwise? One might argue that there may be desire to see someone - anyone - punished and held to account for the murder. But I would argue that if this desire does exist, it ceases to be either logical or reasonable if there's not sufficient evidence to support guilt.

In this particular case, the situation is made even more stark because the real culprit has already been identified, held to account and punished.

In my mind, one could not criticise Knox's or Sollecito's families or friends for continuing to campaign for their innocence - even if their (families/friends) own intellectual analysis had indicated guilt (although that's not of course the situation here: any reasonable intellectual analysis points to non-guilt at the very least). But I think that if Meredith Kercher's friends/family have been able to take an objective, dispassionate, sceptical look at this case, then there should be no reason why they should not alter their conclusions to find Guede the sole guilty party.

Having said all that, I fully understand that Meredith Kercher's close family in particular have probably been too traumatised and swept up in the process to be able to take a step back. That's why I think they've been extremely badly let down by their main lawyer, Maresca. I hold him chiefly responsible for elongating their period of grief and pain, and for leading them down emotional culs-de-sac. I hope that after today and its aftermath, the Kerchers are able to draw a veil over these horrible events and to carry on some sort of normal lives. I also hope that Maresca waives some or all of his fee, but on that score I think I'll be predictably disappointed.
 
CoulsdonUK said:
That’s a shock!

Murder victim’s brother believes in prosecution’s case. Defendant’s family believe in their innocence; go figure!
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting it's a given that the victim's family has to support the prosecution - or that the beliefs of the victim's family are of themselves indicative of the truth?
 
Sky nick pisa ‏@NickPisa 12s
Clerk announces further update at 8pm local. No definite time yet

Sky nick pisa ‏@NickPisa 37s
Possibly 9pm local but no indication yet#Knox

Barbie Latza Nadeau ‏@BLNadeau now
Court clerk says at 8pm she will go back to judge to find out if and when they are ready to deliver verdict.
 
What is raw data in DNA forensics?

Because there has recently been some confusion about this point, I would like to return to the subject of raw versus processed data in STR DNA forensics. DNA forensic electropherograms are often presented as a stack of four plots in four colors. That is because four different wavelengths of light are being monitored. The wavelength of the light used for excitation is 488 nm (provided by a laser), but four different fluorescent dyes are used (they can be covalently attached to the 5’-ends of the primers used for PCR). The dyes have different wavelengths of maximum emission, but their spectra overlap, and the information must be deconvoluted. The process of deconvoluting a single spectrum into four channels uses virtual filters. If this process is not done properly, an artifact known as pull-up (basically peaks in the wrong channel) will occur. The emission spectrum prior to deconvolution is considered raw data.

Butler and colleagues wrote, “The output from the data collection program is 'raw data' that comes in the form of relative fluorescence units on the y-axis and number of data points collected on the x-axis. The GeneScan and Genotyper programs are necessary to convert the raw data into the appropriately colored peak and to generate STR genotyping information…GeneScan software [55] also performs three primary functions. It calls peaks based on threshold values specified by the user; it separates the peaks into the appropriate dye color based on a matrix file; and it sizes the STR allele peaks based on an internal size standard labeled with a different colored dye that is run in every sample…The manufacturer of a particular STR kit normally provides Genotyper macros in order to make the allele calls from the allelic ladders. These macros can be designed to filter out stutter peaks (see [59]) that may interfere with sample interpretation.”
 
Last edited:
Is it true Raff left Florence in the last hour?

That factoid appeared in a guilter tweet. I don't see it elsewhere.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
Because there has recently been some confusion about this point, I would like to return to the subject of raw versus processed data in STR DNA forensics. DNA forensic electropherograms are often presented as a stack of four plots in four colors. That is because four different wavelengths of light are being monitored. The wavelength of the light used for excitation is 488 nm (provided by a laser), but four different fluorescent dyes are used (they can be covalently attached to the 5’-ends of the primers used for PCR). The dyes have different wavelengths of maximum emission, but their spectra overlap, and the information must be deconvoluted. The process of deconvoluting a single spectrum into four channels uses virtual filters. If this process is not done properly, an artifact known as pull-up (basically peaks in the wrong channel) will occur. The emission spectrum prior to deconvolution is considered raw data.

Butler and colleagues wrote, “The output from the data collection program is 'raw data' that comes in the form of relative fluorescence units on the y-axis and number of data points collected on the x-axis. The GeneScan and Genotyper programs are necessary to convert the raw data into the appropriately colored peak and to generate STR genotyping information…GeneScan software [55] also performs three primary functions. It calls peaks based on threshold values specified by the user; it separates the peaks into the appropriate dye color based on a matrix file; and it sizes the STR allele peaks based on an internal size standard labeled with a different colored dye that is run in every sample…The manufacturer of a particular STR kit normally provides Genotyper macros in order to make the allele calls from the allelic ladders. These macros can be designed to filter out stutter peaks (see [59]) that may interfere with sample interpretation.”
Click to expand...

Interesting. And where would one locate more basic data, such as STR parameters (e.g., cycle numbers), amplification curve, plate set-up and control results?
 
Amanda Knox Retrial Verdict: What You Need to Know

-

http://newday.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/30/amanda-knox-retrial-verdict-what-you-need-to-know/

" ...The retrial in Florence has renewed questions about the effectiveness of Italy's justice system, given doubts about the handling of the investigation and key pieces of evidence. When Knox was first convicted of murder, there was outcry in the U.S. that she was wrongfully convicted, based on shoddy evidence. When she was acquitted, there was nearly as much of an outcry in Italy that the courts had succumbed to American pressure... "

-
 
-

Most times, when it takes a little bit of time to come up with a verdict, it's a good sign for the defense. It means that at least one person is arguing innocence. In this case, I would venture to say it's more than one person,

d

-
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom